Powers of X #6 *spoilers*

[JKtheMac]

Interesting ending. Lots of repeated pages which felt a little redundant although the pacing did feel natural. As is quite common, the theorising actually went much further than the book, and instead of Moira being a part of the post human ascendancy it was just another loss. Credit to those who insisted that Logan looked like he was in the dome. It feels almost like a forgotten theory now.

The declaration that ‘we always loose’ was actually quite satisfying, as was Charles and Xavier’s determination. It feels inevitable that we will get Destiny back now. Seems Moira is quite scared by her still.

I appreciated the confirmation that Moira dying would reset everything. It keeps things simple and stops us worrying about alternate universes. It also put paid to the theory that Moira may have voluntarily depowered herself.

I have to admit I was a little disappointed we didn’t see the ultimate conclusion of the ascendancy, but I do wonder if we have seen the last of the Phalanx and the Dominion. If they are outside of time and seemingly the inevitable destiny of post-humans, then presumably they can observe events.

[Viteh]

It is a really more typical concept of Norse mythology than Judeo-Christian. The knowledge that you are going to fail, that this is a cycle and that you will finally lose ... and still continue fighting until the end. That is the mutants. It never seems that they will be able to succeed. But they keep fighting and keep believing because hey.

They are heroes.

So it's just a meta thing? Kinda like with Kid Loki a few years ago? The X-Men will never win because that would mean the end of the X-Men comics, so they have to lose, always.

[David Walton]

Moira orchestrating Destinys death, is it possible if Destiny said she would see it coming?

It's possible. Also possible that Destiny foresaw Krakoa and Mystique finding a way to get her resurrected...

[phoenixzero23]

I don't think Destiny would want to get back to life.

[David Walton]

So it's just a meta thing? Kinda like with Kid Loki a few years ago? The X-Men will never win because that would mean the end of the X-Men comics, so they have to lose, always.

I don't quite see it that way. The X-Men's losses mostly deal with potential futures, which they usually prevent only to raise the possibility of another and equally terrifying dystopian nightmare. All those fluid futures--as terrible as they might be--also create a window of uncertainty and reason to hope that things can be different.

So it's not so much failure is inevitable as back to the wall.

[king81992]

Is Moira's intention to have mutants fuse with machines before the humans do?

It seems to be one of the only two options.The other is to prevent humanity from fusing with machines.

[RachelGrey]

Something I don't understand from this thread.

Several people don't think the mutants should separate themselves from humanity and form their own independent country. That there is hope for Xavier's dream!

But what hope is there exactly? Moira even tested this by support Charles' dream fully in her 3rd life where they tried to cooperate and live the dream with humans, they were still exterminated by humans.

We have just seen the humans building a genocidal weapon to exterminate mutants that the X-Men had to use deployed spies to get the intel on and stop it before it could be completed.
Humans just tried to cure every mutant on the planet and get rid of any future occurrences of the X-Gene!
Human governments have been engaging in mass detentions, experimentation, and executions of mutants to purge them from the population.

I honestly don't understand what you are supposed to do when you face genocide on a global scale, how do you combat it? Do you just try to get good press and talk to these humans that keep trying to build mass genocidal weapons against your race?

I honestly don't understand what the mutants are supposed to do in the face of the evils of the human race that are directed at them. In fact I think the only hope for mutant kind is to escape the Earth before the humans enact a lethal solution against them. I honestly don't think Charles and Erik went far enough, they should be trying to get off world as fast as possible because those islands are big giant targets for all the human governments of the world. Moira herself doesn't even think this plan will be successful, she thinks the humans are still going to win and kill them all, for Moira this is her last resort because she has tried every other option already.

I am not sure how far the economic and political treaties will get them, they might be able to last for a few years but I think that the humans will actually try to conquer Krakoa so that they can control the drugs themselves and just take the mutants out of the equation entirely.

In the face of the horrific evil directed at the mutants by the human race, what is the true solution to this problem? How do you save your people against this evil?

[Dante Milton]

I think Entry 35 in Moira's journal is about the Shi'ar. Xavier would have been in space with them during that time. Entry 29 is around X-Factor #25, Entry 48 is Sinister's recruitment, which had to occur after the Muir Island Saga because he's in the chair, but before Uncanny 300, which I think is referenced in Entry 52.

[cranger]

Something I don't understand from this thread.

Several people don't think the mutants should separate themselves from humanity and form their own independent country. That there is hope for Xavier's dream!

But what hope is there exactly? Moira even tested this by support Charles' dream fully in her 3rd life where they tried to cooperate and live the dream with humans, they were still exterminated by humans.

I kind of stopped here for two reasons.

The first is that I feel that most people who do not like the lesson seemingly being the Charles was wrong is not that Charles is wrong, but that Hickman is deciding Charles is wrong, and therefor in some ways that the X-Men books have always been wrong.

Secondly, Moira has tried plenty of ways that do not try to realize Charles' dream and they all failed too. Just because something went wrong that one or two times, it does not mean that dream was the problem.

This is all a problem because Hickman took away the ability to actually discuss this (that is, if you take this all at face value).

[Su_Whisterfield]

Oh yes, and Moira is Scottish. That wasn’t a cup of tea, Eric.
This is a cup of tea.

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[hawkeyefan]

I guess the thing is, what is Moira trying to prevent? Mutants being wiped out? Machines taking over? Or her own inevitable death?

It seems that the fear of mutantkind leads humanity onto the path of the post-humans, which then results in the end of both mutants and humans. Seems like she wants to prevent that.

Yes, Yes, and Yes...

Really it's down to the humans versus the Mutants for ultimate survival. I think they have the machine problem worked out thanks to the Space Battle and the stuff she learned in Life 9... but we still need to figure out who the humans are that figure out the secret to evolutionary victory as seen in Life 6.

I don't know if that's exactly it....I think that "humans are the enemy" is only so true. They certainly cause the issue, but ultimately it's the union of man and machine and the creation of post-humans that are the enemy. They are the true next step in evolution (according to the librarian) and the machines are just tools. But ultimately, they are the end to both mutants and humans.

And given the fact that Omega Sentinel has already been introduced, and the whole process of what happens there is described in detail.....I think that's what they're looking to stop.

[Starfish]

I kind of stopped here for two reasons.

The first is that I feel that most people who do not like the lesson seemingly being the Charles was wrong is not that Charles is wrong, but that Hickman is deciding Charles is wrong, and therefor in some ways that the X-Men books have always been wrong.

Secondly, Moira has tried plenty of ways that do not try to realize Charles' dream and they all failed too. Just because something went wrong that one or two times, it does not mean that dream was the problem.

This is all a problem because Hickman took away the ability to actually discuss this (that is, if you take this all at face value).

Also, Moira lived "only" 9 previous lives. While she's certainly experienced a lot, given the scope of events and the sheer number of variables at play, that's still a tiny sample size to determine what works and what doesn't.

[yellow cyclone]

that's why they'll always lose imo (so far)

the singularity is probably one of hickman's universal constants. like reed always stepping into the bridge and always finding the council of reeds. mankind will always reach human-machine transcendence and eventually always come for the mutants. the phalanx will always be summoned by mankind if left to its own devices. assimilation/ascension is inevitable. throwing mother mold into the sun just delays it like her hunting down all the trasks. some other superscientist(s) else will come up with it eventually

i'm assuming the mutants will break this cycle with franklin/galactus, jean/phoenix

[RachelGrey]

I kind of stopped here for two reasons.

The first is that I feel that most people who do not like the lesson seemingly being the Charles was wrong is not that Charles is wrong, but that Hickman is deciding Charles is wrong, and therefor in some ways that the X-Men books have always been wrong.

Secondly, Moira has tried plenty of ways that do not try to realize Charles' dream and they all failed too. Just because something went wrong that one or two times, it does not mean that dream was the problem.

This is all a problem because Hickman took away the ability to actually discuss this (that is, if you take this all at face value).

But at the same time we have recent evidence that humans were engaging in genocide against mutants before they even went to Krakoa.

So in the face of a mass genocide being perpetuated against your people what is the remedy? At what point do you retreat to a safe position and hope that they won't follow you and continue trying to kill all of your people?

[Glio]

Theory: What if the fault that it is inevitable that the universe wants to destroy the mutants is Moira? Observer Effect

In Moira's first life, her powers had not destroyed any universe. And it does not seem that her life ended in an apocalyptic future.

However, from her second life, the Dominions, Galactus, Eternity, someone must have realized that something had happened. But the universe is big. They could not detect what had caused the restart.

With each death of Moira, they realized that the problem was the mutants. But they don't know what mutant. So like Herod, the universe decides that mutants must die. And what is their way of interacting with the Earth? Creating the idea of the Sentinels.