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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    One piece and attack on titan both have a fixed end point to the main story. Naruto had its ending. Boruto exists but it is a spinoff. Dragon ball, detective conan.. Etc are the only one's that keep on going. With things like dragon ball being seasonal and detective conan taking more episodic nature. Dragon ball even had its ending by the author. Super only exists because toriyama decided to get back into it and money talks. The concept itself of gods of destruction was great. Movie did well after gt being blah! Which was not canon.

    But, largely manga's have starting, middle and end. Characters die or achieve goal. It is nothing like american comics which follow more of an episodic existence and status quo . Mangaka's do take hiatus's. When they do the stories goes to pause like berserk or hunter x hunter. Overall, the manga has the formula of one author, one story and one vision ( except for editorial inputs/medaling. They are a thing even there) unlike American comics. So, i don't agree with manga's have no fixed ending bit. They do. Atleast, most of them do. They have no qualms in ending a franchise and starting a new franchise with a story. Manga's are story focased.in Comics, stories are made for an eternal character. Manga's are not like that. Franchises like fullmetal alchemist, bleach.. Etc are all finished stories.
    Any material that author or creator hasn't put his approval is considered non canon. Everthing written by the original author is the only one's considered canon.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-09-2019 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    One piece and attack on titan both have a fixed end point to the main story. Naruto had its ending. Boruto exists but it is a spinoff. Dragon ball, detective conan.. Etc are the only one's that keep on going. With things like dragon ball being seasonal and detective conan taking more episodic nature. Dragon ball even had its ending by the author. Super only exists because toriyama decided to get back into it and money talks. The concept itself of gods of destruction was great. Movie did well after gt being blah! Which was not canon.

    But, largely manga's have starting, middle and end. Characters die or achieve goal. It is nothing like american comics which follow more of an episodic existence and status quo . Mangaka's do take hiatus's. When they do the stories goes to pause like berserk or hunter x hunter. Overall, the manga has the formula of one author, one story and one vision ( except for editorial inputs/medaling. They are a thing even there) unlike American comics. So, i don't agree with manga's have no fixed ending bit. They do. Atleast, most of them do. They have no qualms in ending a franchise and starting a new franchise with a story. Manga's are story focased.in Comics, stories are made for an eternal character. Manga's are not like that. Franchises like fullmetal alchemist, bleach.. Etc are all finished stories.
    Any material that author or creator hasn't put his approval is considered non canon. Everthing written by the original author is the only one's considered canon.
    That couldn't work in mainstream comics.
    Maybe in an imprint like Vertigo or Epic, though.

    The main problem would be let's say Tom King does Batman with a start, middle and finish... You've now locked Batman to Tom King.
    That elevates King's importance and may lead to court appearances later when King begins demanding more royalties or even ownership of Batman.
    It also keeps anyone else from writing Batman.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    That couldn't work in mainstream comics.
    Maybe in an imprint like Vertigo or Epic, though.

    The main problem would be let's say Tom King does Batman with a start, middle and finish... You've now locked Batman to Tom King.
    That elevates King's importance and may lead to court appearances later when King begins demanding more royalties or even ownership of Batman.
    It also keeps anyone else from writing Batman.
    I mean multiverse is a thing. Create different universes such as timverse, arkham verse... Etc. Don't try to be identical. Let creators do whatever they want with in their universe. Stop putting emphasis on "iconic" or "classic".
    King can create his own king-verse(or whatever he wants to name it as) with stories he want tell being inside that universe and restricted to it. End the story of that universe when author no longer wishes to continue with it.stop putting emphasis on a main universe.every universe has its own canon, continuity decided by its creators.
    Consider shonen jump to be like dc. Shonen jump has narutoverse, one piece verse, bleachverse.. Etc. Their multiverse. Similarly build verses with different creatives.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-10-2019 at 01:49 AM.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Might not have much politics in them.
    You must not have read One Piece to think that.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Might not have much politics in them.
    On one hand, I recognize that there has always been political content in comics even during the pre-Superman days, but on the other hand, I can sort of understand why people would want escapist comics, and that they don't want to be reminded of real-world issues. Then again, I'm not sure if escapism comics really do exist, and I'm not just talking about addressing stuff like fascism or the presidency either. I recall it was argued to me that even comics that are specifically geared towards elementary school children are inherently political, as comics are not made in vacuums and that the writer always pulls from events happening around them. It might just be down to preference on what counts to one as escapist and what doesn't, or if one has willful ignorance if they deem Captain America comics as escapist for them.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    On one hand, I recognize that there has always been political content in comics even during the pre-Superman days, but on the other hand, I can sort of understand why people would want escapist comics, and that they don't want to be reminded of real-world issues. Then again, I'm not sure if escapism comics really do exist, and I'm not just talking about addressing stuff like fascism or the presidency either. I recall it was argued to me that even comics that are specifically geared towards elementary school children are inherently political, as comics are not made in vacuums and that the writer always pulls from events happening around them. It might just be down to preference on what counts to one as escapist and what doesn't, or if one has willful ignorance if they deem Captain America comics as escapist for them.
    The problem isn't political content . The problem is its lack nuances in portrayals or narrative.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    On one hand, I recognize that there has always been political content in comics even during the pre-Superman days, but on the other hand, I can sort of understand why people would want escapist comics, and that they don't want to be reminded of real-world issues. Then again, I'm not sure if escapism comics really do exist, and I'm not just talking about addressing stuff like fascism or the presidency either. I recall it was argued to me that even comics that are specifically geared towards elementary school children are inherently political, as comics are not made in vacuums and that the writer always pulls from events happening around them. It might just be down to preference on what counts to one as escapist and what doesn't, or if one has willful ignorance if they deem Captain America comics as escapist for them.
    To add to this, a story need not be overtly political in order to carry political content, values, or ways of thought. Characters like Batman and Superman carried with them explicitly different ways of looking at society, and those reflect values and priorities that should be at the heart of political thought.

    The perhaps most illustrative example is Poison Ivy. She started out as a gimmick character. As society's view of nature and progress changed, so did her place in the stories. She became an eco-terrorist. In No Man's Land she violently protected her area and her wards, but she also assisted the rest of the city as long as they didn't intrude. Some stories depicted her as having noble goals, but that her methods were too violent and destructive. And some few stories depict her as near heroic nowadays.

    All those are political choices, and Poison Ivy's development has arguably followed along with shifts in politics and culture.

    Put another way, escapist fiction might be the most inherently political form of fiction there is. Is your escapism about making friends? About beating up criminals? About finding the perfect partner? About saving people from catastrophes? About building things? About fighting back a zombie horde? These all express ideological values that are at the heart of politics.
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  8. #23
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Might not have much politics in them.
    Ahem! "All men are not created equal“ que all might music." the symbol of piece" has arrived to save the day with a smile .

  9. #24
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    I think the fact that a lot of manga are adapted to anime, while the series is ongoing helps boost sales and introduce them to a larger audience.

  10. #25
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Might not have much politics in them.
    Unless it's in allegorical or subtextual form, politics tend to depress sales, not promote them.
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  11. #26
    Spectacular Member Rosa Luxemburg's Avatar
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    This is great news.

    Comics have so much more to offer than superheroes.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    My books a million had two long rolls of graphic novels with marvel getting on side of the bookcases and dc getting the other side and a small area for non heroes and manga stuff. Over the years marvel and dc are now sharing a roll that was for dc only and non hero stuff has spread out into one side taking more room from marvel and dc. The other side that used to be just marvel is now all manga. The whole long roll of bookcases are manga only! There are tons of them! The kids comics have their own area in the kids section now with smile, bone, pokemon manga, mt little pony, baby mouse, big nate, splatoon, and dogman front in center and the marvel and dc books other then marvels oz books pushed to the side! They still have them but they are not the main draw!

    Also the "on sale for $4 area" it's always marvel and dc heroes. You get the strange oddball manga no one heard of also at times but most of them are marvel and dc heroes! Even ms marvel is not safe and was there half off! They had a roll of dc hardcovers for $3 last time I was there! (grabbed a bunch of dc hardcovers like justice leage and even batman!) Even books that just came out a few months ago was in the half off area! You don't see many non hero trades in the area much.

  13. #28
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    One Piece has as much an ending point as Batman. You can argue that the ending point of Batman is that he will retire when crime isn't a threat to Gotham; but he isn't because Crime never ends. You can say that Luffy's trip will never end, or will end once Oda and his publisher gets tired. W hich isn't going to happen anytime soon, given that it's the best selling of the Jump and they seem to not success in getting another big hit for them in the last year and half or so (it mah be a big problem for Shueisha, their publisher).

    And with all the spin offs that had sprung from Attack on Titans, given the popularity of the story, I don't see the end of them even if the main story ends. It may end like other franchises like Gundam.

    FMA and others aren't really a franchise. Full Metal Panic, for example, is. Or Sword Art Online. Or .//Hack. They need to have a wider compendium or works. Most mangas don't, so yeah, they can finish whenever (as much as small heroes do). But franchises? Hard to pull that.

    (I'm on my phone and quoting is messy. I'm replying to the first message by @manwhohaseverything in this page)
    Last edited by Zaresh; 10-10-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I disagree about One Piece. it has a very clear ending point. Oda wants to end it, for a start. And manga, even those with spin-offs like Comics, have an ending. That's built in the format. Even Detective Conan (I don't know the English name, the one where a detective his turned into a kid, I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about) will end someday, and it has 96 volumes (kind of like One Piece, really), if only because, one day the mangaka will either be unable to draw or will die.

    Manga have indeed the advantage of a singular viewpoint and are carried by a singular author, or a writer and artist duo. It is vastly different from Comics, where the characters are just properties used to push new stories. There isn't a singular vision, nor coherent history of any DC/Marvel character.

    Starting a new manga can be daunting (I started OP when it "only" had 58 volumes, because I had grown disfranchised with Naruto which still wasn't finished at that time, and had dropped Bleach because I felt Tite Kubo failed at building on the incredible Soul Society arc by that point). It was impressive, but I bought three tomes, decided that I liked it and speed read the whole shit on pirating websites, before buying the whole series as my finances allowed it. And it's still mostly what I do. I've started series, finished them, and sold my tomes sometimes when they disappointed me (like Naruto, Bleach or Magi, for instance). And that's because it's incredibly easy to start a new manga. You don't need anything else than the first volume, and it being to your liking.

    It makes a world of difference with comics. Someone who would start reading One Piece today, be has taken by the masterpiece that Oda crafted as I was back then and read the whole thing, get interested in the intricacies of the manga's lore and countless theories would end possessing just as much knowledge than me. Even the databooks are optional, or the new One Piece special books, really. You don't need anything else than the manga to get a manga.

    And while I've grown to love comics a lot, they'll never replace manga or B.D. at my top spot, because they are lacking that singular vision and that easiness to access them.

  15. #30
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
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    Politics in comics.

    LoL. It's like the first 50 years of American comic book history never existed.

    The Big-2 could hardly be more Small-C conservative. Defenders of the Status Quo; the institute of marriage and the nuclear family.

    I'd suspect that people are bored because superhero books have rarely offered anything new since the 80s. Nostalgia-porn doesn't seem a sustainable business model.

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