Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 145
  1. #31
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    Politics in comics.

    LoL. It's like the first 50 years of American comic book history never existed.

    The Big-2 could hardly be more Small-C conservative. Defenders of the Status Quo; the institute of marriage and the nuclear family.

    I'd suspect that people are bored because superhero books have rarely offered anything new since the 80s. Nostalgia-porn doesn't seem a sustainable business model.
    Unless you are reading comics for different stories not handled in TV, movies or novels. Relationships are done better in other mediums. Now that I think of it that's what keeps me from reading Batman theese days.

  2. #32
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    2,149

    Default

    Oda has been saying that he was going to end One Piece years, and years, and years. As far as 2004 that I myself can recall. I don't see it happening next year or the following. And when he does finish it, he or his publisher may as well decide that they want to following the story and characters somehow: it has happened with another big hit like Dragon Ball.

    I don't think that's much different than a run of a writer in our superhero comics, really. The diference usually (I think, this is my opinion) is the level of control that a creative has over his work. With new characters in superhero american comics, creators didn't say much up until 40 years ago or so, and only have a better control of them nowadays. Which means that publishers can keep publishing stories for those characters as much as they want. Same as certain corporative works in Japan (like, again Gundam. Of all the things that I know, is the one that works more similarly. But there are more, most of them carried from TV and videogames, where the creators were less protected, or maybe the word is respected)

    It's a business, and finding best sellers isn't science and relies a lot in luck. I can't blame them.

    In the end, what would matter is what the potential buyer would think. I see One Piece never ending, and with a ton of trades to catch on, and I am not going to start buying it. I could say the same with Dragon Ball or the spin offs of Attack on Titan (I started buying the main series at the begining, but am seriously starting to regret it. I hope it does end soon). But people are* still buying OP a lot, for some reason.
    I think that if publishers gave more control to the creators over lines of characters for more than a run, that could help to make readers less fearful of starting them. But only a little bit. Most manga readers that I've asked about reading superhero comics have answered me that they don't read them because they can't believe that in a shared universe, other superheroes don't show up earlier to save the day; that they don't like the art and prefer the style in manga; and that they, overall, don't like superheroes or what those stories tell. And I'm always trying to make them read my comics (comics I think are very good, because quality should shine over everything else). I know a lot of people (and kids, I'm a teacher) and rarely have success between only manga readers. I do a lot better with general sci fi and fantasy fans.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 10-10-2019 at 04:01 PM.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    985

    Default

    From people I've talked to, Marvel and DC superhero comics don't seem to appeal much to kids and teens. I can make educated conjecture on why this is, but the truth is I don't entirely know why. They don't entirely know why. It's probably not something they sit around thinking about. They often just don't have any interest in them. I guess it's the same reason why I don't watch cooking shows. I'm just...not terribly interested. Not that I have anything against them. They're just not on my radar.

    Well, damn, I'm not really that into DC and Marvel superhero comics these days, and I can tell you why.

    a) If the stories aren't centered around some usually absurd event that involved the ENTIRE universe just about, and that is WAY too demanding and difficult to follow, and is usually not even good, they don't seem to matter at all, almost to the point where the stories are throw away filer. Strong relationships aren't formed in the characters own book and stories. Big events, like deaths, don't happen in the characters' own books. They are often reserved for dumb events. Like Heroes in Crisis, or whatever. I don't like those events. The stories in them are ALWAYS bad and I don't want to read all the content associated with them.

    b) Mmm...You know, the art is often not all that good. It's not bad, it's done by people who CAN draw, but I find it often rushed and uninspired. I can sympathize with the artists, however. They're working under ridiculous conditions to put out good work. I can tell you the ins and outs of what goes into a comic book page from personal experience, and...even just doing the pencils for one page every single day is pretty stupid. You have two choices in this scenario. You will either meet your deadlines and put out rushed, uninspired work, or you will be late.

    c) Bad editing makes it so nothing you read really matters. The next run...which will probably happen in a year, or maybe 2 years tops, will completely sweep aside whatever you're reading. Supporting cast will disappear, developments will be like they never even happened, the character you're reading now might be replaced by some totally different character, and so on. It just gives me a whole "why do I even bother?" feeling.

    I could go on and on, but I'll stop here.
    I adore the comics medium, but I honestly find these DC and Marvel comics and the way they operate to be dumb as ef.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    4,214

    Default

    When the AT&T deal originally went through, one of my biggest concerns was that they would phase out the comics division altogether and just use DC characters as an IP farmhouse for things like movies and TV shows because of low sales. The further away we get from the deal, the less concerned I am but that may just be because they still haven't gotten all their ducks in a row yet. When the original Time/Warner deal went through back in the nineties, I read that Jeannette Kahn went to bat for DC. I don't see someone like Didio being able to do that effectively. I DO think one of the things they are doing right are all these out of continuity books. Especially considering what a convoluted mess mainstream continuity is right now. But my initial fear has never really gone away. And If things don't turn around sales wise, who knows. I think things like the Wal-Mart books are a good idea. They are out of continuity and more or less anthologies so that "casuals" can enjoy them. And that may end up being the future of superheroes. Who knows. Comic shops may end up being places you just go to pick up back issues. Like antique stores. I know my favorite comic shop closed recently and all they sold were comics and action figures. While the local chain store that sells DVDs and music alongside comics is doing just fine. Though their back issue selection kind of sucks. Which is to be expected. As technology progresses, the idea of buying a 22 page comic for a fraction of a story will become impractical. To some degree it already is. And as the prices go up, you have to wonder how much people will be willing to pay for the 22 page incomplete story. It's already up to $4.00 a pop now. There is also printing costs. At what point is it just more economically feasible to go all digital? I have a feeling we'll find out in the next decade or so.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  5. #35
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    2,149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    From people I've talked to, Marvel and DC superhero comics don't seem to appeal much to kids and teens. I can make educated conjecture on why this is, but the truth is I don't entirely know why. They don't entirely know why. It's probably not something they sit around thinking about. They often just don't have any interest in them. I guess it's the same reason why I don't watch cooking shows. I'm just...not terribly interested. Not that I have anything against them. They're just not on my radar.

    Well, damn, I'm not really that into DC and Marvel superhero comics these days, and I can tell you why.

    a) If the stories aren't centered around some usually absurd event that involved the ENTIRE universe just about, and that is WAY too demanding and difficult to follow, and is usually not even good, they don't seem to matter at all, almost to the point where the stories are throw away filer. Strong relationships aren't formed in the characters own book and stories. Big events, like deaths, don't happen in the characters' own books. They are often reserved for dumb events. Like Heroes in Crisis, or whatever. I don't like those events. The stories in them are ALWAYS bad and I don't want to read all the content associated with them.

    b) Mmm...You know, the art is often not all that good. It's not bad, it's done by people who CAN draw, but I find it often rushed and uninspired. I can sympathize with the artists, however. They're working under ridiculous conditions to put out good work. I can tell you the ins and outs of what goes into a comic book page from personal experience, and...even just doing the pencils for one page every single day is pretty stupid. You have two choices in this scenario. You will either meet your deadlines and put out rushed, uninspired work, or you will be late.

    c) Bad editing makes it so nothing you read really matters. The next run...which will probably happen in a year, or maybe 2 years tops, will completely sweep aside whatever you're reading. Supporting cast will disappear, developments will be like they never even happened, the character you're reading now might be replaced by some totally different character, and so on. It just gives me a whole "why do I even bother?" feeling.

    I could go on and on, but I'll stop here.
    I adore the comics medium, but I honestly find these DC and Marvel comics and the way they operate to be dumb as ef.
    I can subscribe to all those three points, to be honest. Even the third one, that makes me feel conflicted. As much as continuity goes against the capacity of a writer to create stories, if I'm a reader invested in a character, I expect what I read and have read to matter in the long term.

    But that also can chase away new readers, I guess.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 10-10-2019 at 09:35 AM.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    Politics in comics.

    LoL. It's like the first 50 years of American comic book history never existed.

    The Big-2 could hardly be more Small-C conservative. Defenders of the Status Quo; the institute of marriage and the nuclear family.

    I'd suspect that people are bored because superhero books have rarely offered anything new since the 80s. Nostalgia-porn doesn't seem a sustainable business model.
    And that’s interesting, because Dan Didio said something about how the older DC stuff was selling more than the new stuff:

    “We do these Facsimile Editions where we reprint older issues of comics including all the old ads and stuff…and in some cases these are selling more than the new comics with these characters. People are more interested in buying the stories from 30 or 40 years ago than the contemporary stories, and that’s a failure on us.” - https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...-dc-publishes/

  7. #37
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,829

    Default

    It seems to me that Forbes isn't giving the whole picture. Yes, superhero books don't do as well in bookstores. There's more competition there. But DC and Marvel have a special relationship with the direct sales comic shops--where they are up against less competition. So sure they could diversify and make comics for all tastes, which would appeal to bookstore consumers--but they would face greater competition in the bookstores (brick & mortar and online bookstores), because you can have every kind of book at these outlets. In the comicshops, you mostly can only get certain kinds of books--so that gives DC and Marvel the advantage there. And because everyone knows DC and Marvel as super-hero publishers now, consumers likely only go to them for that kind of material--and if readers want something else they'll look at offerings from other publishers.

    I'd like DC to change its ways and go back to the wide range of genres they used to offer, but I don't see the economic advantage for them to do that. They are a bigger fish in a smaller pond if they mainly stick with the super-heroes. If they got into a bigger pond, they would likely get swallowed up.
    " I'm shocked! shocked! to find that gambling is going on in here!"

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    985

    Default

    I didn't read the Forbes article (I'll go back and read it sometime), but if this is about bookstores, let's not act like that's a growth market. Bookstores are closing down just like comic shops. The book publishing industry is not doing that great, either. Even to the point where some very notable authors are becoming hybrid authors (that's when you publish some books traditionally through a publishing house, AND you publish other books via self publishing on the internet). They're doing that because the traditional publishing industry isn't cutting it enough and they see growth in the online eBook market.

  9. #39
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    And that’s interesting, because Dan Didio said something about how the older DC stuff was selling more than the new stuff:

    “We do these Facsimile Editions where we reprint older issues of comics including all the old ads and stuff…and in some cases these are selling more than the new comics with these characters. People are more interested in buying the stories from 30 or 40 years ago than the contemporary stories, and that’s a failure on us.” - https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...-dc-publishes/
    Not surprising.

    Good quote.

    Thanks for reinforcing my point.

    EDIT: I may have jumped the gun and inferred snark where there was none. If so, I sincerely apologise.

    If there was - fortunately for me, I couldn't care less.

    DOUBLE EDIT: Very confident I read your post wrong. Sincere apologies.
    Last edited by _Feely_; 10-10-2019 at 10:08 AM.

  10. #40
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    21,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    Politics in comics.

    LoL. It's like the first 50 years of American comic book history never existed.

    The Big-2 could hardly be more Small-C conservative. Defenders of the Status Quo; the institute of marriage and the nuclear family.

    I'd suspect that people are bored because superhero books have rarely offered anything new since the 80s. Nostalgia-porn doesn't seem a sustainable business model.
    Given how many marriages and families have been erased over the years, I doubt that.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    5,558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Given how many marriages and families have been erased over the years, I doubt that.
    "Heroes can never be happy" really does seem to be the main consensus among the heads.

  12. #42
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Given how many marriages and families have been erased over the years, I doubt that.
    DC comics entire publishing line has been retrofitted to accommodate Superman & Lois Lane.

    Glad we can agree.

  13. #43
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    "Heroes can never be happy" really does seem to be the main consensus among the heads.
    Yeah, I think that regardless of how well-written the stories are, I can understand why the sort of attitude of “heroes can have a dark side,” “heroes can’t always save people,” “heroes are met with constant disapproval,” can turn some readers away after awhile, and resort to looking towards older material. Not that older material didn’t have stuff like that either, but I’m sure it’s still fair enough to say that the way comics were written in and around the 70s is noticeably different in tone from the newer material in general

  14. #44
    Maintaining Status Q _Feely_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    "Heroes can never be happy" really does seem to be the main consensus among the heads.
    Powers of X just literally ended in a giant Burning Man style party.

    Feel like we're confusing unhappiness with conflict. Dramatic storytelling - all storytelling - is driven by conflict. Hero wants something: obstacles prevent that. Rinse, repeat.

    Some of it can get depressing though, I would agree. Bendis Daredevil immediately springs to mind.

  15. #45
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    21,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Feely_ View Post
    Powers of X just literally ended in a giant Burning Man style party.

    Feel like we're confusing unhappiness with conflict. Dramatic storytelling - all storytelling - is driven by conflict. Hero wants something: obstacles prevent that. Rinse, repeat.

    Some of it can get depressing though, I would agree. Bendis Daredevil immediately springs to mind.
    I think the poster was talking about DC not Marvel.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •