Steve Rogers the first homo novissima

[Woozie]

I think people are mixing the two and hickman did not make super men the villians. Super men are still men. The villians are post humans. When man gets to a point where humans are no longer born but rather created or rather manufactured in a factory is the enemy. That has nothing to do with super humans other than inspiration for their ideas. I think people are missing the manufactured part, these aren't natural life forms.

This is such an arbitrary crock of ****.

And you know it's arbitrary cause they got no problem with doing the same thing in life 9

[jwatson]

This is such an arbitrary crock of ****.

And you know it's arbitrary cause they got no problem with doing the same thing in life 9

ok, would you care to elaborate. Is there something specific you disagree with because they were manufactured and are unnatural. Steve Rodgers is a natural man who had his dna altered, big different. One is still a natural life form where as the created life form would not be.

[Woozie]

ok, would you care to elaborate. Is there something specific you disagree with because they were manufactured and are unnatural. Steve Rodgers is a natural man who had his dna altered, big different. One is still a natural life form where as the created life form would not be.

I'm saying this argument that it's natural vs. unnatural is arbitrary and an excuse. Which is supported by the fact that they did the same thing with Chimera in life 9. You can't have a moral or ethical high ground when you're willing to do the exact same thing as your opponent, but manage to roll your save back.

Add in the fact that a lot of Krakoa interface relies on the technoorganic race the technarchy(which are creations of the Phalanx) just shows it's all arbitrary excuses.

One side wants to win and the other does not want to lose.

It's like saying "We would never use nukes" when if you look at a previous game they used Nukes any chance they got.

[Veitha]

I'm saying this argument that it's natural vs. unnatural is arbitrary and an excuse. Which is supported by the fact that they did the same thing with Chimera in life 9. You can't have a moral or ethical high ground when you're willing to do the exact same thing as your opponent, but manage to roll your save back.

Add in the fact that a lot of Krakoa interface relies on the technoorganic race the technarchy(which are creations of the Phalanx) just shows it's all arbitrary excuses.

One side wants to win and the other does not want to lose.

It's like saying "We would never use nukes" when if you look at a previous game they used Nukes any chance they got.

I don't think they said Homo Novissima is morally bad. I think they don't want humans to reach it because it means mutant extinction. Chimeras and now Krakoan tech are a response to human's genetic engineering.

[jwatson]

I'm saying this argument that it's natural vs. unnatural is arbitrary and an excuse. Which is supported by the fact that they did the same thing with Chimera in life 9. You can't have a moral or ethical high ground when you're willing to do the exact same thing as your opponent, but manage to roll your save back.

Add in the fact that a lot of Krakoa interface relies on the technoorganic race the technarchy(which are creations of the Phalanx) just shows it's all arbitrary excuses.

One side wants to win and the other does not want to lose.

I still don't get what your saying. I wasn't saying iit was right or wrong or if it was an excuse or not. What i'm saying is Steve Rodgers is different from Homo novissina. He was born, he was naturally conceived and given a serum that altered his human dna. The other was a manufactured life form, meaning not a naturally existing one.

Your right though Chimeras are the same but the conversation wasn't about Chimeras. The only real difference is Chimeras are comibinations of biological dna and the other technological. Neither is right in my opinion and both could lead the same result of ascenscion and the destruction of humanity. But to your point of it being in life 9 it was to be able to fight back against the manufactured humans not heroes who had a stake in the natural order of things being they belong to it as well. Avengers are Earth's mightest heros not humans so i would think if they knew the future they would be trying to defend earth rather than making sure humans erase the existence of their own individuality.

God created Man Man and by extension mutant.
Man created Homo Novissima and replaced themselves.

[yogaflame]

Hickman's ideas are fascinating, but I can't help but think he's forgetting about the whole Celestial origin of the X-gene itself, and that it is not exactly a 'natural' occurrence, and the Celestials themselves are using advanced technology to at least contain their energetic bodies, something Apocalypse has been experimenting on himself and his horsemen for thousands of years. Hickman's ideas in PoX and HoX are very interesting in their own regard, but they don't exactly fit in with the wider Marvel Universe as it has been defined for decades.

celestialdestinyofmutants.jpg

celestialdestinyofmutants2.jpg

While it is interesting to see him recycles something like 90's Phalanx into something very high-minded and hard sci-fi, it's like, did you consider the Celestials, and how they might factor into all this? Or the other Abstracts and various other high lifeforms? Not to mention the fact that even outnumbered as they are[mutants by humans], just a handful of Omegas could indeed change the whole scenario with a thought. While the best X-Men stories do tend to be when the mutants have their backs up against the wall, it really is kind of hard to believe a highly organized cabal of reality warpers and elementals and such coordinated telepathically can't stop some naked monkeys from throwing too many rocks.

[jwatson]

Hickman's ideas are fascinating, but I can't help but think he's forgetting about the whole Celestial origin of the X-gene itself, and that it is not exactly a 'natural' occurrence, and the Celestials themselves are using advanced technology to at least contain their energetic bodies, something Apocalypse has been experimenting on himself and his horsemen for thousands of years. Hickman's ideas in PoX and HoX are very interesting in their own regard, but they don't exactly fit in with the wider Marvel Universe as it has been defined for decades.

celestialdestinyofmutants.jpg

celestialdestinyofmutants2.jpg

While it is interesting to see him recycles something like 90's Phalanx into something very high-minded and hard sci-fi, it's like, did you consider the Celestials, and how they might factor into all this? Or the other Abstracts and various other high lifeforms? Not to mention the fact that even outnumbered as they are[mutants by humans], just a handful of Omegas could indeed change the whole scenario with a thought. While the best X-Men stories do tend to be when the mutants have their backs up against the wall, it really is kind of hard to believe a highly organized cabal of reality warpers and elementals and such coordinated telepathically can't stop some naked monkeys from throwing too many rocks.

One could say that in some point in creation humans did actually reach ascension and eventually became the celestials who regretted their decision so being outside of time and space went back and played with the human genome to speed up it's natural evolution in a bid for celestials to stop humans in this iteration of the universe from ascending and basically ending natural evolution of man.

[yogaflame]

The Celestials ended the natural evolution of mankind a long time ago when they started playing with proto-humans and created the Eternals, Deviants, and the X-Gene in humanity.

mutantscelestials.jpg

With the Eternals movie coming up soon, and the recent Avengers run starting off with the Celestials, I feel like the mutant connection to them both should be highlighted again(it is so briefly mentioned in the stories many seem to have forgotten all about it).

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm saying this argument that it's natural vs. unnatural is arbitrary and an excuse. Which is supported by the fact that they did the same thing with Chimera in life 9. You can't have a moral or ethical high ground when you're willing to do the exact same thing as your opponent, but manage to roll your save back.

Add in the fact that a lot of Krakoa interface relies on the technoorganic race the technarchy(which are creations of the Phalanx) just shows it's all arbitrary excuses.

One side wants to win and the other does not want to lose.

It's like saying "We would never use nukes" when if you look at a previous game they used Nukes any chance they got.

My one quibble is that the Phalanx is actually an offshoot of the Technarchy, created when a Technarch infects an organic being with the Transmode techno-organic virus but for whatever reason doesn't then consume the Transmode-infected being. Said being becomes a Phalanx, so named because of the link to a techno-organic hive mind that connects those infected with the Transmode Virus.

Beyond that, it's very fascinating to read everyone's thoughts on the state and future of human evolution vis-à-vis mutants and nonmutant superhumans. Regarding the question of the Celestials and the role they've played in the collective rise of superhumans and mutants, didn't "The Final Host" reveal that life on Earth actually spawned from a sick and dying Celestial basically vomiting all over the planet, as opposed to the Celestials deliberately tampering with proto-humanity like in the previous versions of Earth's cosmic backstory? If life on Earth in Marvel canon --- including superhuman and mutant life --- is really the product of a cosmic accident, then in a sense, the existence of mutants is still something of a natural phenomenon, at least compared to transhumanist engineering.

[gambitxremy]

There’s also another origin that Odin created humans

[gambitxremy]

https://ibb.co/vxCc8jz
https://ibb.co/D8vnJ2X

[norj]

Humans vs Mutants is now your standard brains vs brawns fight, mutants are your brawny jocks that rely their physical abilities way too much, while humans work to overcome their physical limitations through creativity, stubbornness and tech. There is reason why isolated superhuman societies like the Eternals, Deviants and Inhumans have stagnanted.

[DurararaFTW]

He manipulated one of his clones dna to turn himself into a mutant. Mutate would be a better definition but then you have to remember Magneto and Polaris also got their powers from soleone tampering with their dna post Decimation.

Steve Rodgers and all the other homo novissima all underwent vastly different treatments to get enhanced. Their common feature is that they were born human, so too was Nathaniel Essex.

[tuck frump]

Steve Rodgers and all the other homo novissima all underwent vastly different treatments to get enhanced. Their common feature is that they were born human, so too was Nathaniel Essex.

And every other Sinister clone is also an enhanced human. Key difference is this Sinister was specifically modified to have an active x-gene.

[gambitxremy]

Steve Rodgers and all the other homo novissima all underwent vastly different treatments to get enhanced. Their common feature is that they were born human, so too was Nathaniel Essex.

Your so right Essex was a mutate