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  1. #1
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    Default Is It Time For A Democratic Atlantis?

    Since the New 52, there's been what, 4 attempted coups in Atlantis? And isn't Arthur currently separated from them again? It feels like DC's kind of sending the message that an Atlantian monarchy isn't feasible anymore given how often the place falls apart.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I'm fine with fantasy tropes in Atlantis, myself.
    But then, I like fantasy versions of Atlantis.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  3. #3

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    It's an easy way for writers to do palace intrigue in a while, but the "good monarch" trope has very much worn out its welcome for me. It's a great fit for guys like Doctor Doom, not so much a hero protagonist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    It's an easy way for writers to do palace intrigue in a while, but the "good monarch" trope has very much worn out its welcome for me. It's a great fit for guys like Doctor Doom, not so much a hero protagonist.
    How is Doom a good monarch?

  5. #5
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I think Arthur getting ousted so continually says less about the Atlantean way of government and more how fickle Atlantians are. But they always turn back to Aquaman when things get rough.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    It's an easy way for writers to do palace intrigue in a while, but the "good monarch" trope has very much worn out its welcome for me. It's a great fit for guys like Doctor Doom, not so much a hero protagonist.
    What about Black Panther?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Or they're just repeating the same old stories, the same way they do with Vic Stone's "am I human" bit. For some characters, it sadly seems like DC just can't fathom more than one storyline.
    Yeah, Arthur getting ousted from his throne was just as common in Post-Crisis but he still always ended up being king again.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Yeah, Arthur getting ousted from his throne was just as common in Post-Crisis but he still always ended up being king again.
    Didn't it happen at least once pre-COIE, too?

  7. #7
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Arthur getting ousted so continually says less about the Atlantean way of government and more how fickle Atlantians are. But they always turn back to Aquaman when things get rough.
    Yeah, it doesn't help that Atlantis rarely has internal struggles. They always are united in their opinions. It doesn't really feel like a group of people so much as a hivemind that needs Arthur Curry to survive, but hates that patented Arthur Curry flavor and quits him as soon as they can, which inevitably leads them back to him... Kind of like a rebellious kid that never moves out...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How is Doom a good monarch?
    That's my point, genuinely believing that you're a great enough guy to be the best option bar none to rule a country is something I associate with Doom rather than someone like Aquaman, even if he's also written as arrogant and believing himself to be exceptional from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    What about Black Panther?
    Exact same thing. I don't care about how much of a benevolent multi-competent genius you are, being a monarchy is not a good way to rule a country.
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  9. #9
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    That's my point, genuinely believing that you're a great enough guy to be the best option bar none to rule a country is something I associate with Doom rather than someone like Aquaman, even if he's also written as arrogant and believing himself to be exceptional from time to time.
    I don't think the "good" kings in comics think of themselves as the best option bar none to rule their country but that they have the best qualities to lead their people and that's what makes them king.
    Exact same thing. I don't care about how much of a benevolent multi-competent genius you are, being a monarchy is not a good way to rule a country.
    I mean, if you're against the concept in principle I can see the issue but as far as the mythos of the character is concerned we're supposed to believe that a monarchy is the ideal way for that fantastical comic book kingdom to be ruled.

  10. #10
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    Exact same thing. I don't care about how much of a benevolent multi-competent genius you are, being a monarchy is not a good way to rule a country.
    Here's the thing. Atlanteans would pretty much vote to declare war on the surface and then the Justice League would ultimately crush them for being an invading army trying to overthrow the entire planet. It's a zero-sum game for Atlantis. Arthur/Mera in control as a monarch is actually saving themselves from suicide. They've attempted regicide because Arthur has attempted to broker peace between themselves and a foreign power that would defeat them. The people of Atlantis are not bright. They may completely ruin the surface, but they literally cannot win against it. Comics are a unique beast because we can see into people's thoughts and we know their characters enough that becoming a monarch actually can work. Superman would be a great king because he has the qualities to be, though I am certain he would hate each picosecond of it.

    Atlantis isn't a kingdom safe to become a democracy because, frankly, it's fueled by xenophobia, isolation and ultimately has plans to declare war on the world. Unlike every real world example, this doesn't come from the top but from it's people; it's rulers are the ones who historically keep peace and try to lead them toward a mindset that could become a more democratic entity without leading to its own self-destruction.

    Normally I'd be with you. I prefer a government that represents the voice of its people, but in this very specific case, they are simply unready for it.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Since the New 52, there's been what, 4 attempted coups in Atlantis? And isn't Arthur currently separated from them again? It feels like DC's kind of sending the message that an Atlantian monarchy isn't feasible anymore given how often the place falls apart.
    Or they're just repeating the same old stories, the same way they do with Vic Stone's "am I human" bit. For some characters, it sadly seems like DC just can't fathom more than one storyline.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Nae Kings! Nae Queens! Atlantis is free!

    I would actually be interested to see how Arthur and Mera would deal with any Atlantian revolutionaries who want to bring democracy. I have a feeling that any Atlantian Democracy wouldn't last very long before someone seized the Throne and Aquaman has to punch them in the face very hard to save Atlantis.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to write about a transition, perhaps to a type of constitutional monarchy in which Arthur has a role as King but isn't supreme ruler. Maybe his duties are relegated to mediating inter-government disputes, or military defense, perhaps foreign diplomacy.

    I found it funny when Ollie called Arthur out in Quiver.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    A lot of fiction—and it's especially prevalent in science fiction and fantasy—has a real preference for monarchies or other autocratic ways of government. Part is because it's simple from a storytelling view, part is that there is a romanticism to hereditary dictatorships. It's more prevalent in the USA, but you can still find it in Europe and other places.

    It's not like Aquaman is alone with being royalty within DC. You have Wonder Woman and Starfire, and I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some version of Superman floating out there where he is a prince of Krypton.

    But yes, I'd like some more republics or constitutional monarchies in comics.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Since the New 52, there's been what, 4 attempted coups in Atlantis? And isn't Arthur currently separated from them again? It feels like DC's kind of sending the message that an Atlantian monarchy isn't feasible anymore given how often the place falls apart.
    It feels like DC kind of ran out of stories.
    But seriously though, I don't mind if there's a motion among Atlantean, either the downtrodden or the manipulative, or the manipulative using the downtrodden, to push for Democracy. That'll be new.

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