X-Men #1 preview

[Starfish]

Inheritance doesn’t denote a prolonged ownership, it denotes a basic right to land or resources based on who you are. Mutants are inheritors because their inheritance is the Earth by being the next step in evolutionary, not because there is no other competition in the way. The point of differentiating how man is essentially “playing god” with their ‘Tower of Babel’-esque experimentations to ascend into the Phalanx only to just be destroyed and absorbed into a collective and how the mutants are fighting for the natural order of things by being given tools to help combat whatever is plaguing the environment (eg Sentinels, Nimrod, homo novissima). So what part have I misread?

Evolution is not directed, though. There are no predetermined "next steps". The next step is whatever survives, be that evolved humans, mutants, machines, or hyper-intelligent squids. Considering mutants seem to lose out every time unless heavily rigging the game in their favour by repeatedly resetting the timeline while giving themselves a headstart with previous knowledge, I'm at the moment more inclined to categorize them as "dead end" instead of the "next step".

[Daedra]

Evolution is not directed, though. There are no predetermined "next steps". The next step is whatever survives, be that evolved humans, mutants, machines, or hyper-intelligent squids. Considering mutants seem to lose out every time unless heavily rigging the game in their favour by repeatedly resetting the timeline while giving themselves a headstart with previous knowledge, I'm at the moment more inclined to categorize them as "dead end" instead of the "next step".

they are the next step when it comes to natural evolution..... the problem arises when evolution is no longer left in the hands of nature

[terrancejameson]

Evolution is not directed, though. There are no predetermined "next steps". The next step is whatever survives, be that evolved humans, mutants, machines, or hyper-intelligent squids. Considering mutants seem to lose out every time unless heavily rigging the game in their favour by repeatedly resetting the timeline while giving themselves a headstart with previous knowledge, I'm at the moment more inclined to categorize them as "dead end" instead of the "next step".

Exactly. Mutants aren’t the next step because homo novissima isn’t a direct offshoot from mutantdom. They are directly descended from the human race themselves. “Inheritors of the earth”, my ass. Mutants should be proud of their place that is solely for them. Krakoa should be celebrated for what it represents for mutants in spirit and the their solidarity. However, the idea that mutants can somehow compete with the aspect of humanity that desires self preservation is a notion of self defeat. You cannot conceivably later the human imagination without committing the same atrocities some humans are guilty of perpetuating against mutants. Mutants would undoubtedly become that which they hate. In the greater scheme of things denying and demonizing that form of human expression only serves to strip mutants of their humanity. There’s a special word society calls people that are stripped of their humanity.

[RachelGrey]

they are the next step when it comes to natural evolution..... the problem arises when evolution is no longer left in the hands of nature

I think this is why everyone feels Xavier's dream of coexistence is a fallacy.

You can only coexist if both sides are equal and are joined in common cause. Every attempt made at coexistence ends in humans committing betrayal and genocide on mutants. Overtures of peace by mutants are rewarded with oppression and genocide by humans.

So if peace doesn't work, what next?

Well Moira tried conquering the world with Magneto and Apocalypse and the problem was that she couldn't move fast enough to slow down the rise of AI and the Sentinels and Nimrod being deployed to stop the mutants from evolving fast enough.

So peace and war don't work, what next?

Well, what if you are more subtle, what if we pursue peace but are more aggressive in our tactics without being provocative and starting the war. We consolidate our position, we advance our science faster than ever, and we push out beyond the restrictions of our planet (Moon, Mars, and Shi'ar) so we can retreat from Earth if necessary. Note, in the X2 universe there were 10000 mutants living in the Shi'Ar empire, it wasn't perfect but they did have a surviving colony off Earth even if they were beholden to the Shi'ar empire to provide members of the Royal Guard.

So in this life, they have made a move to consolidate in a free nation, and bring in some of the people that are critical to success from both heroes and villains. They are granting life saving medicines to the humans that will delay some of the moves toward artificial life forms, not indefinitely, but it is a delay. They have taken out the first attempt to build Mother Mold and hopefully delayed the arrival of Nimrod.

I think it's an attempt at aggressive peace, walk softly and carry a big stick!

[JB]

The problem with making any real world parallels, is what differentiates mutants tends to be power, more importantly random spontaneously manifesting powers; potentially lethal powers they may not be able to control, at an age you wouldn't trust them to drive a car.

Oh, and those with mind control, a physiological need to feed on others, or just those horribly deformed to much liability and no benefit, which are their own kettles of fish.

There's a story in Marvel 1001 "The Rest of Your Life," that nicely illustrates the problem.

Attachment 88223

This should actually become a much bigger problem if it's an all mutant society.

In this new status quo I'd love to see how mutants are dealing with the mutant problem... they'll probably ignore it though.

I completely understand why humans would be afraid - I would too if a person suddenly exploded in the supermarket while I'm shopping. I was just mirroring the argument that mutants shouldn't protect/segregate themselves because "not all humans" hate and attack them. Just the same, not all mutants have harmed humanity yet "die mutie" is what we get on banners while celebrating the death of the X-Men, mutants that have countlessly saved the world. The vaccine was voted for and approved.
Perhaps if humanity as a whole decided to help mutants in controlling their powers, they wouldn't be so afraid of them.

I'm actually hoping the drugs that cure diseases of the mind help with dissolving the hatred in some humans that lead to wanting mutants dead.

[terrancejameson]

they are the next step when it comes to natural evolution..... the problem arises when evolution is no longer left in the hands of nature

The conflict arises when we start talking about “mother” nature vs “human” nature. Which is more natural?

[Daedra]

The conflict arises when we start talking about “mother” nature vs “human” nature. Which is more natural?

well you should ask hickman, this is not my interpretation, last issue of pox had an info-chart presenting mutants as the result of natural evolution and homo novissima as the result of technological tampering

[Starfish]

they are the next step when it comes to natural evolution..... the problem arises when evolution is no longer left in the hands of nature

By that definition, "natural" evolution ended the moment we became tool users or began to select our partners by any other criteria than pure animalistic instinct. Even if one wants to make the arbitrary distinction of "natural" vs "unnatural" (is cooking food natural? is clothing? what about glasses, vaccines, or surgery etc? Where to draw the line between natural and unnatural applications of tool usage? Is using a telepathic supercomputer to bring back the souls of the dead natural, too?), mutants were created by giant space beings playing god with magic superscience, so they are hardly more or less natural than the Children of the Vault, for example.

[BroHomo]

mutants were created by giant space beings playing god with magic superscience

According to many major religions so were humans

[Daedra]

By that definition, "natural" evolution ended the moment we became tool users or began to select our partners by any other criteria than pure animalistic instinct. Even if one wants to make the arbitrary distinction of "natural" vs "unnatural" (is cooking food natural? is clothing? what about glasses, vaccines, or surgery etc? Where to draw the line between natural and unnatural applications of tool usage? Is using a telepathic supercomputer to bring back the souls of the dead natural, too?), mutants were created by giant space beings playing god with magic superscience, so they are hardly more or less natural than the Children of the Vault, for example.

yhea I agree with you, but I'm not the one making the distinction:

evo02.jpg

[Starfish]

yhea I agree with you, but I'm not the one making the distinction:

evo02.jpg

I may very well be wrong, but I understood these charts as in-universe information, meaning they reflect the opinion or notes of a character within the setting instead of Hickman directly addressing the reader, and therefore might be proven wrong. Of course, it could still turn out to be factually correct information on how the setting works, in which case I have to admit the story simply isn't going to be for me. I love sci-fi stories that deal with transhumanist themes, but I personally dislike tropes like these (for example, the common idea found in cyberpunk fiction that modification reduces your humanity).

[Electricmastro]

It was the majority. The whole world celebrated the death of the X-Men and people were supporting the senator whatshername and the vaccine. It's on page.

Seems to all go back to the replacement peril theory. I once heard that human beings aren't born with prejudice, but are made for them, by someone who wants something.

And like you mentioned with human extinction, although doesn't justify atrocities and irrationality, still plays a role in people who don't want to go extinct.

And sure, the relationship between human mutates and human mutants has gotten very inconsistent in its worldbuilding, so why humans ending up hating the mutants more than the mutates seems to have been pretty poorly handled by most writers, but with that said, I quite liked the explanation Marvels #2 (1994) gave, and reminds me that human/mutant relations, at least when written well, have more complexities than what's seen on the surface:

[terrancejameson]

Further examination of this idea homo novissima gives greater insight into why Xavier appears as creepy and ominous as he does. If human and their weapons/technology ultimately leads the demise of humans and mutants alike, then Charles Xavier and his special technology is the greatest form of mutant technology and the biggest threat against them. Cerebro, as it has been redesigned for story purposes, is the one piece of machinery that offers mutants brand new opportunities and the greatest collection of their secrets.

[Electricmastro]

I may very well be wrong, but I understood these charts as in-universe information, meaning they reflect the opinion or notes of a character within the setting instead of Hickman directly addressing the reader, and therefore might be proven wrong. Of course, it could still turn out to be factually correct information on how the setting works, in which case I have to admit the story simply isn't going to be for me. I love sci-fi stories that deal with transhumanist themes, but I personally dislike tropes like these (for example, the common idea found in cyberpunk fiction that modification reduces your humanity).

Not to mention how a later writer far down the road could just possibly throw out all the charts like yesterday’s rubbish. I mean, no matter what us CBR posters think is and isn’t objectively correct according to the Marvel universe, the reality is that (I presume) none of us are the writers calling the shots. lol

[spirit2011]

Ah, sounds like a shame if that truly turns out to be the case.

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If people are thinking everything gonna be all fine forever they are wrong. Need some big drama

The majority stay quiet, Which has the same result as agreeing. Non action allows bad things to happens. Partially blame is deserved. For example Most Americans are to blame for kids in cages, The inaction by mass allows the policy to stay in place. In action by the masses allows Flint have bad water.

We saw pro-humans rally on Bendis run.