X-Men #1 preview

[tuck frump]

I agree with you there, unfortunately. Different opinions should be welcomed and encouraged. I think different interpretations of Hickman's work should provoke discussion. From my point of view, the X-men are working in a morally grey area now. The fact that the X-men have adapted a survival technique similar to that of the machines they fight, really says something.

The same poster derailing every thread to complain about the sun not shining out of their fave's a** was hardly helping foster discussion.

The page I referenced was from New X-Men.

ONE in that one, were an organization doing it's best effort (and admittedly failing), at maintaining the safety and security of the student body.

So again, inconsistency between series.

There was a b-plot in New X-Men about one sentinel pilot being sympathetic and befriending the Xkids. That don't change anything about the fact he was working for an organization that set up a concentration camp and whose director was planning on commiting genocide. That's not inconsistency its just a b plot. Also Im imagining he got with Amanda Sefton after he went to rescue her from the hospital and now Kurt is furious he got cucked by a flatscan who's not even a family relative.

And you-all conveniently forget that Magneto ordered the Avengers off of Genosha, and told them if they ever showed up again, he'd consider it an act of war. He said he'd protect his people. Remember MAGNETO REX? The Avengers saved the entire population of Carrion Cove when Magneto pulled the city off of a cliff. Cassandra Nova was not a human, that's the point here--she was a mummudrai using Xavier's cells to create a body. Not only that, the entire massacre happened over the course of a few minutes--the only "hero" who was actually watching and plugged in and monitoring the genocide was Charles Xavier. Did he send any X-Men to save the mutants on Genosha? Don't tell me, he didn't have time? It happened so fast, so he just sat there moaning about all the death so he just didn't have time? Accusations regarding the Genoshan genocide are particularly unfair.

Xavier's speech in House of X isn't accurate, it's as biased as Xavier claims the heroes are toward mutants. It's a revolutionary speech, meant for mutants more than trying to change any non-mutant hero minds.

And then Magneto died along with 16 million others but Im sure his last talk with the Avengers left a strong enough impression that they couldn't be bothered picking up a shovel or anything.

[Electricmastro]

There's an interesting article about the rift between X-men and Avengers on uncannyxmen.net, if you haven't already read.

Thanks. And it is interesting regarding "the Magneto Problem," in that even though the Avengers seemed to recognize there were good mutants worth respecting and had no problem accepting an working with a mutant, Beast, on their team, the thought of mutant criminals like Magneto always loom heavily with them even despite the afterthought of Magneto possibly changing for the better. With his Holocaust survivor's background, his early ambition to make humans his slaves, and the like, he's definitely a complex figure that didn't make the relations between the Avengers and X-Men less complicated early on.

[Rivka]

Who just directed the people building Sentinels to direct their killing robots at Genosha in a unprovoked attack. Those Sentinels she used were built by humans with the eventual intention of using them on Mutants.
Also, Cassandra Nova is a Mummudrai and more meta-human than mutant. Her powers are more grounded in the supernatural and demonic.

Nope. Nova kidnapped a Trask cousin who was terrified and only wanted to be a dentist. She used him to turn the sentinels on, and then she killed him. The factory in South America where the mega-sentinels were being produced had been abandoned. Both Nova and Moira-7 decided that if you had an ounce of Trask blood you deserved to die, even if you were a distant cousin who wanted nothing to do with the family mutant-hunting-robot business.

A mummudrai is a life form, a parasite, that the Shi'ar have known about for thousands of years. Nova deliberately planned the attack, carried it out, as an act of revenge on her "brother" Charles Xavier for nearly killing her in their mother's womb. Humans did not attack Genosha. Heroes had no time to respond. The only one who could have responded was Xavier, and he did nothing. In fact, if Wolverine hadn't gutted Magneto in the finale of "Eve of Destruction" maybe Magneto could have defended the island. Also, don't forget, Magneto had just tried to conquer the world like a Silver Age villain; he had a huge standing army that he had trained, which conveniently wasn't able to do anything. You can chalk that up to Morrison's writing style where he glosses over details like that, or, come up with an explanation. Where was an island full of mutant soldiers, mutant powers, when the mega-sentinels sent by Cassandra Nova attacked? Lorna tells us in Chuck Austen's run--it happened suddenly and too fast to mount a defense. Humans did not attack Genosha, but given the fact that Magneto had just assembled an army and threatened to attack the world a few weeks before (and was stopped by the X-Men), their forbearance is amazing. One reason that Genosha wasn't counterattacked by humans is, Charles Xavier assured them that the X-Men would monitor Magneto and provide a check.

You can talk for hours about all the shady hate groups, quasi-government anti-mutant programs, evil anti-mutant organizations and scientists, but when you reference the two actual most lethal anti-mutant attacks, Genosha and Wanda's "Decimation" -- no humans were involved.

[tuck frump]

You can talk for hours about all the shady hate groups, quasi-government anti-mutant programs, evil anti-mutant organizations and scientists, but when you reference the two actual most lethal anti-mutant attacks, Genosha and Wanda's "Decimation" -- no humans were involved.

This argument i so lame if someone gets shot in front of me and my reaction is "well I didnt have anything to do with you getting shot, it wasnt ME who shot or anyone that I know so I have no reason to help you" Im a poor excuse of a human being. And then delving deeper into it, both events couldnt have happened if not for humans hateboner for mutants. For all her powers (she wrecked shit through the entire SHIAR empire), Cassandra didnt attack Genosha herself, she looked for the most efficient end fast way to destroy the island so there would be no time for anyone to help and that was man made sentinels. And Wanda lashing out against mutants had everything to do with the way human hatred of mutants had shaped her father and then her life so. Yeah lame.

[PsychoEFrost]

This argument i so lame if someone gets shot in front of me and my reaction is "well I didnt have anything to do with you getting shot, it wasnt ME who shot or anyone that I know so I have no reason to help you" Im a poor excuse of a human being. And then delving deeper into it, both events couldnt have happened if not for humans hateboner for mutants. For all her powers (she wrecked shit through the entire SHIAR empire), Cassandra didnt attack Genosha herself, she looked for the most efficient end fast way to destroy the island so there would be no time for anyone to help and that was man made sentinels. And Wanda lashing out against mutants had everything to do with the way human hatred of mutants had shaped her father and then her life so. Yeah lame.

So do you blame Eugene Stoner (designer of the AR-15) and Eli Remington for mass shootings? The mega sentinels were inert and abandoned by the humans until Nova used them.

[Nazrel]

There was a b-plot in New X-Men about one sentinel pilot being sympathetic and befriending the Xkids. That don't change anything about the fact he was working for an organization that set up a concentration camp and whose director was planning on commiting genocide. That's not inconsistency its just a b plot. Also Im imagining he got with Amanda Sefton after he went to rescue her from the hospital and now Kurt is furious he got cucked by a flatscan who's not even a family relative.

So didn't read it, but a quick perusal of the summery said that the director got deposed, and imprisoned for the &%#@ he tried (which accounts for the change of policy)... so... original points stand.

[tuck frump]

So do you blame Eugene Stoner (designer of the AR-15) and Eli Remington for mass shootings? The mega sentinels were inert and abandoned by the humans until Nova used them.

The day someone invents a sentient-gun-designed-specifically-to-shoot-black-people yeah sure I'll blame them for all the black people killed by said guns.

So didn't read it, but a quick perusal of the summery said that the director got deposed for the &%#@ he tried (which accounts for the change of policy)... so... original points stand.

And then he was replaced by Callahan who killed like half the remaining mutant population, set up concentration camps, tortured innocents and was basically given free reign by the government to commit another genocide. So Im really not sure what your original point was again.

[Rivka]

This argument i so lame if someone gets shot in front of me and my reaction is "well I didnt have anything to do with you getting shot, it wasnt ME who shot or anyone that I know so I have no reason to help you" Im a poor excuse of a human being. And then delving deeper into it, both events couldnt have happened if not for humans hateboner for mutants. For all her powers (she wrecked shit through the entire SHIAR empire), Cassandra didnt attack Genosha herself, she looked for the most efficient end fast way to destroy the island so there would be no time for anyone to help and that was man made sentinels. And Wanda lashing out against mutants had everything to do with the way human hatred of mutants had shaped her father and then her life so. Yeah lame.

Again, Nova was responsible for the genocide. No one helped her. She programmed the sentinels, she told them what to do. No one had time to respond. Charles Xavier didn't respond. Why didn't he order X-Men to Genosha to save the island? He promised the UN that he'd take care of the island. The entire attack was Nova's idea from beginning to end. No one could have stopped her. Sentinels exist because of human FEAR of mutants and fear leads to hate. You can argue that the existence of sentinels is something all people of earth should carefully consider: Marvel earth includes many different types of homo sapiens. The existence of sentinels is problematic and hateful. But in the specific case of the Genosha genocide, Cassandra Nova was responsible, pure and simple. And no one had time to stop her.

As to Wanda, blaming her father is exactly what she did. Daddy was mean to her, Daddy didn't pay enough attention to her, Daddy was an embarrassment to her, so she decided to take out all of Daddy's people. At the time, she was a mutant herself, so it was an astounding act of self-hatred. Now, if her non-mutant status holds, it's just an astounding act of mass destruction and murder. Her excuse is her mental illness, and that is a valid, legal excuse. But at the time, she acted in the belief she was a mutant and Magneto's daughter, and she acted specifically BECAUSE she thought she was a mutant and Magneto's daughter.

Also, by the way, every time the X-Mansion and/or school was destroyed, in 616, no human was involved either. The most horrible thing humans have done, imo, is Operation: Zero Tolerance. Lobdell carefully showed how each government on the earth agreed to let Bastion have his way, including sharing all data on mutants, allowing their mutant citizens to be hunted, harassed, and collected and put in camps. Operation: Zero Tolerance is the actual reveal of human intentions against mutants.

[PsychoEFrost]

The day someone invents a sentient-gun-designed-specifically-to-shoot-black-people yeah sure I'll blame them for all the black people killed by said guns.


And then he was replaced by Callahan who killed like half the remaining mutant population, set up concentration camps, tortured innocents and was basically given free reign by the government to commit another genocide. So Im really not sure what your original point was again.

Feel free to explain how a deactivated sentinel is capable of killing anything.

[spirit2011]

I dont think that makes much sense more likely Hickman is course coreecting with her after the 3 months long tantrum her fans have been throwing. I bet she'll change costume soon.

This has been writing for months, it's not like he wrote this last week and it is ready. I doubt Hickman cares for Jean or what her dans think.

Also Hickman isn't above criticism

[Maestroneto]

You would think that Scott, as the last person to try the whole isolated home for mutants away from humans thing, would be more skeptical. Also weird since the last time Scott ever saw Charles, he sort of murdered him while high as balls on Phoenix.

You would think, as someone who spent a year complaining that Scott and Emma were being treated unfairly both in and out of universe, would appreciate that their vision has been treated as correct after all.

[jmc247]

Nope. Nova kidnapped a Trask cousin who was terrified and only wanted to be a dentist. She used him to turn the sentinels on, and then she killed him. The factory in South America where the mega-sentinels were being produced had been abandoned. Both Nova and Moira-7 decided that if you had an ounce of Trask blood you deserved to die, even if you were a distant cousin who wanted nothing to do with the family mutant-hunting-robot business.

A mummudrai is a life form, a parasite, that the Shi'ar have known about for thousands of years. Nova deliberately planned the attack, carried it out, as an act of revenge on her "brother" Charles Xavier for nearly killing her in their mother's womb. Humans did not attack Genosha. Heroes had no time to respond. The only one who could have responded was Xavier, and he did nothing. In fact, if Wolverine hadn't gutted Magneto in the finale of "Eve of Destruction" maybe Magneto could have defended the island. Also, don't forget, Magneto had just tried to conquer the world like a Silver Age villain; he had a huge standing army that he had trained, which conveniently wasn't able to do anything. You can chalk that up to Morrison's writing style where he glosses over details like that, or, come up with an explanation. Where was an island full of mutant soldiers, mutant powers, when the mega-sentinels sent by Cassandra Nova attacked? Lorna tells us in Chuck Austen's run--it happened suddenly and too fast to mount a defense. Humans did not attack Genosha, but given the fact that Magneto had just assembled an army and threatened to attack the world a few weeks before (and was stopped by the X-Men), their forbearance is amazing. One reason that Genosha wasn't counterattacked by humans is, Charles Xavier assured them that the X-Men would monitor Magneto and provide a check.

You can talk for hours about all the shady hate groups, quasi-government anti-mutant programs, evil anti-mutant organizations and scientists, but when you reference the two actual most lethal anti-mutant attacks, Genosha and Wanda's "Decimation" -- no humans were involved.

I would expect like with fans a constellation of opinions among the x-characters about the level of blame of Trask Industries and the government who funded the construction of the Sentinels that were used in the genocide.

If everyone shares the same opinion it’s an issue.

[PsychoEFrost]

You would think, as someone who spent a year complaining that Scott and Emma were being treated unfairly both in and out of universe, would appreciate that their vision has been treated as correct after all.

Maybe if Marvel had the self awareness to realize how stupidly hypocritical they were for calling Scott and Emma the most evil mutants ever, and then celebrate Xavier and Moira doing something FAR more extreme, you would have a point. But sadly, they don't.

[Maestroneto]

Nope. Nova kidnapped a Trask cousin who was terrified and only wanted to be a dentist. She used him to turn the sentinels on, and then she killed him. The factory in South America where the mega-sentinels were being produced had been abandoned. Both Nova and Moira-7 decided that if you had an ounce of Trask blood you deserved to die, even if you were a distant cousin who wanted nothing to do with the family mutant-hunting-robot business.

A mummudrai is a life form, a parasite, that the Shi'ar have known about for thousands of years. Nova deliberately planned the attack, carried it out, as an act of revenge on her "brother" Charles Xavier for nearly killing her in their mother's womb. Humans did not attack Genosha. Heroes had no time to respond. The only one who could have responded was Xavier, and he did nothing. In fact, if Wolverine hadn't gutted Magneto in the finale of "Eve of Destruction" maybe Magneto could have defended the island. Also, don't forget, Magneto had just tried to conquer the world like a Silver Age villain; he had a huge standing army that he had trained, which conveniently wasn't able to do anything. You can chalk that up to Morrison's writing style where he glosses over details like that, or, come up with an explanation. Where was an island full of mutant soldiers, mutant powers, when the mega-sentinels sent by Cassandra Nova attacked? Lorna tells us in Chuck Austen's run--it happened suddenly and too fast to mount a defense. Humans did not attack Genosha, but given the fact that Magneto had just assembled an army and threatened to attack the world a few weeks before (and was stopped by the X-Men), their forbearance is amazing. One reason that Genosha wasn't counterattacked by humans is, Charles Xavier assured them that the X-Men would monitor Magneto and provide a check.

You can talk for hours about all the shady hate groups, quasi-government anti-mutant programs, evil anti-mutant organizations and scientists, but when you reference the two actual most lethal anti-mutant attacks, Genosha and Wanda's "Decimation" -- no humans were involved.

Pretty sure whoever leaves a genocide machine out in the jungle deserves part of the blame for whatever it is used for in the future.

[spirit2011]

Careful with that sentiment. You'll be called a Nazi defender.

That i swhy I punched myself right now?

well I see that people complain about avengers doing nothing or very little, but when Jeanused their help on X-men red people complained that Jean called the avengers.
Make up your minds

Pretty sure whoever leaves a genocide machine out in the jungle deserves part of the blame for whatever it is used for in the future.

If it is in the middle of a jungle, it isn't for use