X-Men #1 preview

[Nazrel]

And then he was replaced by Callahan who killed like half the remaining mutant population, set up concentration camps, tortured innocents and was basically given free reign by the government to commit another genocide. So Im really not sure what your original point was again.

No, he was replaced by Valerie Cooper.

Several radical administration structural shifts across the national board (including the overthrow of the entire government by a Nazi captain America.), and one god like mutant later, and Callahan's in charge.

My point is, yes, there was indeed a point in time when they weren't the bad guys; in fact it was a longer amount of time then, when they were the bad guys, before Callahan (unless there's a point in time I'm missing.)... though when everyone was talking about interment camps, I thought they meant the set-up at the school in New X-men, so my bad there.

[mugiwara]

Nope. Nova kidnapped a Trask cousin who was terrified and only wanted to be a dentist. She used him to turn the sentinels on, and then she killed him. The factory in South America where the mega-sentinels were being produced had been abandoned. Both Nova and Moira-7 decided that if you had an ounce of Trask blood you deserved to die, even if you were a distant cousin who wanted nothing to do with the family mutant-hunting-robot business.

A mummudrai is a life form, a parasite, that the Shi'ar have known about for thousands of years. Nova deliberately planned the attack, carried it out, as an act of revenge on her "brother" Charles Xavier for nearly killing her in their mother's womb. Humans did not attack Genosha. Heroes had no time to respond. The only one who could have responded was Xavier, and he did nothing. In fact, if Wolverine hadn't gutted Magneto in the finale of "Eve of Destruction" maybe Magneto could have defended the island. Also, don't forget, Magneto had just tried to conquer the world like a Silver Age villain; he had a huge standing army that he had trained, which conveniently wasn't able to do anything. You can chalk that up to Morrison's writing style where he glosses over details like that, or, come up with an explanation. Where was an island full of mutant soldiers, mutant powers, when the mega-sentinels sent by Cassandra Nova attacked? Lorna tells us in Chuck Austen's run--it happened suddenly and too fast to mount a defense. Humans did not attack Genosha, but given the fact that Magneto had just assembled an army and threatened to attack the world a few weeks before (and was stopped by the X-Men), their forbearance is amazing. One reason that Genosha wasn't counterattacked by humans is, Charles Xavier assured them that the X-Men would monitor Magneto and provide a check.

You can talk for hours about all the shady hate groups, quasi-government anti-mutant programs, evil anti-mutant organizations and scientists, but when you reference the two actual most lethal anti-mutant attacks, Genosha and Wanda's "Decimation" -- no humans were involved.

This. All of this.
Xavier's evil twin and a woman Magneto thought was his daughter and groomed into being a terrorist. Those are the responsible of those two attacks.
Magneto acting like he had nothing to do with Wanda, I can buy. It would not be the first time he's doing this sort of mental gymnastic. But Xavier singing the same song? Definitely shady.

Here is a picture of the Avengers doing nothing to help while Genoshean people are dying
avengers.jpg
Oh, wait. My bad. That's the X-Men.

[tuck frump]

Again, Nova was responsible for the genocide. No one helped her. She programmed the sentinels, she told them what to do. No one had time to respond. Charles Xavier didn't respond. Why didn't he order X-Men to Genosha to save the island? He promised the UN that he'd take care of the island. The entire attack was Nova's idea from beginning to end. No one could have stopped her. Sentinels exist because of human FEAR of mutants and fear leads to hate. You can argue that the existence of sentinels is something all people of earth should carefully consider: Marvel earth includes many different types of homo sapiens. The existence of sentinels is problematic and hateful. But in the specific case of the Genosha genocide, Cassandra Nova was responsible, pure and simple. And no one had time to stop her.

As to Wanda, blaming her father is exactly what she did. Daddy was mean to her, Daddy didn't pay enough attention to her, Daddy was an embarrassment to her, so she decided to take out all of Daddy's people. At the time, she was a mutant herself, so it was an astounding act of self-hatred. Now, if her non-mutant status holds, it's just an astounding act of mass destruction and murder. Her excuse is her mental illness, and that is a valid, legal excuse. But at the time, she acted in the belief she was a mutant and Magneto's daughter, and she acted specifically BECAUSE she thought she was a mutant and Magneto's daughter.

Also, by the way, every time the X-Mansion and/or school was destroyed, in 616, no human was involved either. The most horrible thing humans have done, imo, is Operation: Zero Tolerance. Lobdell carefully showed how each government on the earth agreed to let Bastion have his way, including sharing all data on mutants, allowing their mutant citizens to be hunted, harassed, and collected and put in camps. Operation: Zero Tolerance is the actual reveal of human intentions against mutants.

How is "the peopple who invented a machine with the exact intent to commit genocide aren't responsible for the genocide if they didn't push the button" a viable position to hold?

Also yes Wanda was a self hating mutant at the time, how can you divorce that from rampant anti mutant racism pervading MU human society like this is really an easy and obvious connection to make.

Did anyone even die during OZT, pretty sure Stryker killing 50 powerless kids and Hodge setting up an entire country based on racial segragation and slavery are pretty important. Not to mention Sinister (who is also human besides the one mutant clone) orchestrating the Morlocks massacre and very much blowing up the mansion during Inferno.

[spirit2011]

How is "the peopple who invented a machine with the exact intent to commit genocide aren't responsible for the genocide if they didn't push the button" a viable position to hold?

Also yes Wanda was a self hating mutant at the time, how can you divorce that from rampant anti mutant racism pervading MU human society like this is really an easy and obvious connection to make.

Did anyone even die during OZT, pretty sure Stryker killing 50 powerless kids and Hodge setting up an entire country based on racial segragation and slavery are pretty important. Not to mention Sinister (who is also human besides the one mutant clone) orchestrating the Morlocks massacre and very much blowing up the mansion during Inferno.

If you say the person that built it, I can agree. But it wasn't the whole humanity that build it. And the sentinels were abandoned for no use.

X-men, magneto and quicksilver screwed very badly the Wanda problem. It had nothing to do with anti-mutant sentiment. Remember that on Morrison run Mutants were relatively popular

This. All of this.
Xavier's evil twin and a woman Magneto thought was his daughter and groomed into being a terrorist. Those are the responsible of those two attacks.
Magneto acting like he had nothing to do with Wanda, I can buy. It would not be the first time he's doing this sort of mental gymnastic. But Xavier singing the same song? Definitely shady.

Here is a picture of the Avengers doing nothing to help while Genoshean people are dying
avengers.jpg
Oh, wait. My bad. That's the X-Men.

Always get me in the nerves when I see the quote "where you were when our children were dying?" to Avengers.
How they could know it was gonna happen? LOL

Yeah the so called humans exterminating mutants were in reality mutants and a whatever mumudrai.

sure humans also attacked mutants, as mutants also killed innocent humans

[Electricmastro]

well I see that people complain about avengers doing nothing or very little, but when Jeanused their help on X-men red people complained that Jean called the avengers.
Make up your minds

There's also 2012's Uncanny Avengers by Rick Remender, a rare occasion where a writer actually makes some noticeable effort to have at least one of the Avengers help out the mutants with their problem of being destructively persecuted out of hatred.

[tuck frump]

Uncanny Avengers v1 triggers my ptsd every time I remember its existence.

[JB]

Did anyone even die during OZT, pretty sure Stryker killing 50 powerless kids and Hodge setting up an entire country based on racial segragation and slavery are pretty important. Not to mention Sinister (who is also human besides the one mutant clone) orchestrating the Morlocks massacre and very much blowing up the mansion during Inferno.

That was one of the worst offenses, in my opinion.

[Rivka]

I would expect like with fans a constellation of opinions among the x-characters about the level of blame of Trask Industries and the government who funded the construction of the Sentinels that were used in the genocide.

If everyone shares the same opinion it’s an issue.

That is an excellent point because we're analyzing the events as readers, but the people involved in-universe would no doubt see things in a completely personal way.

[jmc247]

That is an excellent point because we're analyzing the events as readers, but the people involved in-universe would no doubt see things in a completely personal way.

From what I have seen to date Kitty in HoM sort of felt humanity could do more to work with mutants to prevent it. Sort of the middle option view. Jean blamed Cassandra Nova. Emma blamed humanity and their machines first and Nova a distant second.



For Lorna it was humanity and their weapons of death that were and still happened to be the threat. That was the great thing about the ‘01-04 era. It offered a wide variety of prospectives. Hopefully the current era does the same even with them under the same roof.

[Lucyinthesky]

I agree Cassandra Nova was the main person responsible for the destruction of Genosha still she could not have done so in such a manner if the tools she used were not there to use in the first place, I would call her the intellectual killer and the sentinels created by the Traks and other goverment industries the material killer. What never quite made sense to me was why Cassandra went for Genosha to make Xavier suffer, it would have made more sense if she went first for the X-men as they are much more beloved by her brother, also I was hoping Xavier to tell Magneto WHO really was in charge of the sentinels who destroyed Genosha and why, that would be quite the interesting talk imo but whatever I guess I will never see this addresed.

I don´t quite blame the Avengers for not acting about Genosha or the mutant decimation but what happened on AvX definitely can be taken as a point agaist them as mutant allies imo, after all the phoenix five would not have happened if they didn´t decide to involve themselves by fighthing the X-men thinking they knew more than them about the Phoenix force.

[CGAR]

So unpopular opinion I didn't read Morrision's run. It just wasn't for me. I appreciated what that run was but the whole Genosha thing just didnt make any sense to me. Especially with the points Rivka made.

I get that you can't blame humans for genocide because Cassandra Nova did it all. But they were complicit. And really didnt care about 16 million dead humans. Who also happen to be mutants.

I was always annoyed that mutants didnt fight back.

I understand it was done for dramatic effect. But Grant Morrison wanted to make a story beat. And he made it happen.

There are many things you can pick at if you really think about it. But what's done is done.

[Thundershot]

At some point, a long time ago, Storm started using contractions. Can anyone pinpoint that?

[H-E-D]

Oh, hey, fun fact, I was just looking back at E is for Extinction, and Trask is the one that gives the order to the Sentinels. Cassandra convinces him to. It was her idea, but it was his choice.
Screen Shot 2019-10-11 at 6.39.24 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2019-10-11 at 6.39.03 PM.jpg

Sure, if he'd refused, she would have given the order herself a few minutes later when she'd finished stealing his genes. But she didn't have to.

[Electricmastro]

From what I have seen to date Kitty in HoM sort of felt humanity could do more to work with mutants to prevent it. Sort of the middle option view. Jean blamed Cassandra Nova. Emma blamed humanity and their machines first and Nova a distant second.



For Lorna it was humanity and their weapons of death that were and still happened to be the threat. That was the great thing about the ‘01-04 era. It offered a wide variety of prospectives. Hopefully the current era does the same even with them under the same roof.

I find it interesting she keeps putting 100% of the blame on the humans for the Sentinels, even though the Sentinels have been shown to basically have free will and act on their own:

[spirit2011]

So unpopular opinion I didn't read Morrision's run. It just wasn't for me. I appreciated what that run was but the whole Genosha thing just didnt make any sense to me. Especially with the points Rivka made.

I get that you can't blame humans for genocide because Cassandra Nova did it all. But they were complicit. And really didnt care about 16 million dead humans. Who also happen to be mutants.

I was always annoyed that mutants didnt fight back.

I understand it was done for dramatic effect. But Grant Morrison wanted to make a story beat. And he made it happen.

There are many things you can pick at if you really think about it. But what's done is done.

But who they would fight back? It was all Cassandra nova plan.

The best they could do is ask the government to do a inventory and destruct all sentinels.

It really doesn't make sense that Cassandra attack lots of unknows than explode again the mansion. The whole Genosha ended up being a plot device