X-Men #1 preview

[loke13]

Listen I’m not defending Nazis especially not the real ones in WWII I’m just pointing out that hate groups like this exist in real life and we don’t all go to heck with laws roll into every suspected stronghold we know of and shoot them all. Next rally they have drop a bomb on it. It’s just at what point are you as bad as what you are fighting.

Again when Charlottesville happened did the US government go hunt down everyone at the rally and shoot them?

Well I would love to comment of the US's softball tactics towards homegrown terrorist organizations but that's neither here nor there. Theirs a difference between a bunch of racist bigots with tiki torches and a fully funded terrorist organization made up of several clandestine groups (one of which are made up of literal Nazis) with the resources to commandeer and Death Ray and retrofit it into a Mother Mold facility in direct retaliation to the the creation of the first mutant Nation.

Like are you really trying to say that the X-Men's response to this is out of bounds?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Let me just remind you fellas that the real life Nazis were taken down by an alliance of The British Empire, USSR, USA (in ascending order of nations declaring war). The British Empire was a racist, white-supremacist nation-state, that oppressed people across the globe, the USSR was led by Stalin of whom less-said-the-better, and USA was a segregated nation that during the war sent Japanese Americans to internment camps.

What that means is that opposing Nazism doesn't mean that one side has to be entirely squeaky clean and morally pure.

In other words, it's okay to the find the X-Men of Krakoa a little problematic, dubious in methods and choices, and still think that Orchis is worse, which they are.

I don't think everything the X-Men are doing right now is justified nor is it intended to be. Hickman when he wrote New Avengers wasn't entirely on board with the Illuminati and wrote them accordingly. You are supposed to question and feel repulsed by these self-righteous "ends-justifies-means" a--holes.

I mean Xavier's plan involves getting the Hellfire Corporation to smuggle in drugs in nations that don't recognize Krakoa legally. That's more or less what the British did to the chinese during the opium wars. Sure the drugs are life-giving and not habit-forming (or so Xavier tells us they are), but those are dubious means and examples to follow.

[tuck frump]

'Nazis' vs 'mutants supremacists' ? I guess they are even, so… What do you do in an universe when no one is a good guy?

Does fighting Nazi’s give you the right to slaughter people? Would you be ok with the US government going into a neo Nazi group and shooting everyone in the face? And where do you draw said line? To me it just makes the X-men the mutant version of the ORCHIS.

Mutants cannot be killed.

Lmao we really are at the stage of #nazilivesmatter huh

[Daedra]

I mean PoX #6 literally acknowledged that the Winter Council are "problems" and are there to "keep watch on them"?

Plus what happened with Sabretooth?

But ok

Surely you dont expect other nations to not have counter measures in case the whole island of kroakoa decides to go rogue or falls under the command of supremacist nazi mutants

[cranger]

They just meant Rachel can't use Marvel Girl herself, because Jean is currently using that code name.

Sorry, although I quoted a comment that was more about Rachel I was commenting on the cast list itself and other than "Dr." Cecilia Reyes, Jean Grey is the only one not using a traditional code name, Marvel Girl or otherwise, which seems odd.

I still think we are going to find out Rachel and Cable just returned from the future in X-Men #1 and that they have missed most of the formation of Krakoa thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at this Orchis facility and that we find out Cable and Rachel have been running their own missions completely independent of Krakoa and they just happen to run into the X-Men.

I hesitate to speculate, but I can see that happening. Planting a seed for Fallen Angels seems like a smart thing to do, that being where Cable is going to show up.

[TheCape]

The tone and style of the dialogue reminds me a little of Claremont stuff but the content just clashes with what I would expect Scott and Storm to say in those circumstances. I'd expect Scott to be grim and focused. Joking around on a mission just doesn't feel like him. I'd expect Storm to be in a similar mood. I'd expect righteous indignation if she felt this was justified, but this feels more like cold condescension. Just feels off for both of them. Other's have commented on Scott calling Mags sir which doesn't track for me. Scott may not be King of mutants anymore, but this seems like a stretch. Feels like 80's Scott and Ro to me, but what's coming out of their mouths will take some getting used to.

Nice to see them working together again though. Hopefully the full issue will make some of this make more sense.

Yeah, this is my view, the dialogue is ok, but it doesn't sound like something that i would expect then to say. I don't think that they were mutant supremacist on this, but they definitely sounded a bit off. Then again, is just a preview, we still don't have the full picture.

[JB]

Beautiful! Love seeing Scott and Ororo working together after so long. And it's obvious to me that our X-Men are in for a troubling wake-up call(s) once the buzz from their recent achievements dies down.

It's exciting and new and I love it. Let's go Lorna!

[Askani's Flame]

I bet you the next page is a big ol bomb getting dropped on them notice the Cyclops line of you have our coordinates and the bad guys looking up and in the opposite direction of Cyclops and Storm and saying oh god!

If by 'bomb' you mean Magneto and Polaris arriving sure. But if you mean a literal bomb, you've lost your senses and 1) the X-Men seldom resort to using bombs to attack people/villains and 2) even with their newfound resurrection abilities I don't foresee Storm being willing to sacrifice herself this way and 3) they are bombs with their powers alone.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Let me just remind you fellas that the real life Nazis were taken down by an alliance of The British Empire, USSR, USA (in ascending order of nations declaring war). The British Empire was a racist, white-supremacist nation-state, that oppressed people across the globe, the USSR was led by Stalin of whom less-said-the-better, and USA was a segregated nation that during the war sent Japanese Americans to internment camps.

What that means is that opposing Nazism doesn't mean that one side has to be entirely squeaky clean and morally pure.

In other words, it's okay to the find the X-Men of Krakoa a little problematic, dubious in methods and choices, and still think that Orchis is worse, which they are.

I don't think everything the X-Men are doing right now is justified nor is it intended to be. Hickman when he wrote New Avengers wasn't entirely on board with the Illuminati and wrote them accordingly. You are supposed to question and feel repulsed by these self-righteous "ends-justifies-means" a--holes.

I mean Xavier's plan involves getting the Hellfire Corporation to smuggle in drugs in nations that don't recognize Krakoa legally. That's more or less what the British did to the chinese during the opium wars. Sure the drugs are life-giving and not habit-forming (or so Xavier tells us they are), but those are dubious means and examples to follow.

^ Agree. With almost everything you said.

Plus this is issue #1... it's the beginning of a longer plot, I'm sure the way he wrote Moira (does she inspire confidence in you? Not me) is intentional as well and part of all of this.

It's a setup with a very dark/grey/dubious agenda which I'm sure will get lightened up as it goes.

I do hope we can retain some aspects of the ambiguity though, it's important to get people to have to think and feel their way through these things and not just revert to "duh I know these guys are bad and those others are good"

[loke13]

Are evil mutants been retconned out of 616 or did I dream the last 40+ years of xmen comics

Yes evil mutants exist. But as we have seen with the 10 lives of Moira it's humanity that constantly tried to wipe out Muntantkind with very rarely the shoe being on the other foot. So I'm not sure what your point is? That mutants are fallible?

[loke13]

This preview thread is gonna get heated lol

[TheCape]

Let me just remind you fellas that the real life Nazis were taken down by an alliance of The British Empire, USSR, USA (in ascending order of nations declaring war). The British Empire was a racist, white-supremacist nation-state, that oppressed people across the globe, the USSR was led by Stalin of whom less-said-the-better, and USA was a segregated nation that during the war sent Japanese Americans to internment camps.

What that means is that opposing Nazism doesn't mean that one side has to be entirely squeaky clean and morally pure.

In other words, it's okay to the find the X-Men of Krakoa a little problematic, dubious in methods and choices, and still think that Orchis is worse, which they are.

I don't think everything the X-Men are doing right now is justified nor is it intended to be. Hickman when he wrote New Avengers wasn't entirely on board with the Illuminati and wrote them accordingly. You are supposed to question and feel repulsed by these self-righteous "ends-justifies-means" a--holes.

I mean Xavier's plan involves getting the Hellfire Corporation to smuggle in drugs in nations that don't recognize Krakoa legally. That's more or less what the British did to the chinese during the opium wars. Sure the drugs are life-giving and not habit-forming (or so Xavier tells us they are), but those are dubious means and examples to follow.

True, i don't find Krakoa as sinister as other posters, but it's clear (at least to me) that there is something about this whole situation that isn't quite right, i think that the X-Men are going along with this a little too well. Is strange that so far, only Logan has shown any reservations about this idea and that has do more with bringing the villains in.

[Askani's Flame]

I still think we are going to find out Rachel and Cable just returned from the future in X-Men #1 and that they have missed most of the formation of Krakoa thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they show up at this Orchis facility and that we find out Cable and Rachel have been running their own missions completely independent of Krakoa and they just happen to run into the X-Men.

I don't think that will be the case, as I've said before, since if they all just arrived back from the last X-Force event then how would Sam have time to go back to the Shi'ar and be with his family? I think we may be more likely to see that Rachel and Nate are uncomfortable by governing in Krakoa, hence why Cable heads to FA as he's uneasy with this past as it's dramatically different than what he read about. I would be interested in reading Ray and Nate running their own missions, but I don't think that Xavier would have allowed that to transpire for 6-9 months without trying to bring them into the fold if it runs counter to Krakoa's needs.

Sorry, although I quoted a comment that was more about Rachel I was commenting on the cast list itself and other than "Dr." Cecilia Reyes, Jean Grey is the only one not using a traditional code name, Marvel Girl or otherwise, which seems odd.

I hesitate to speculate, but I can see that happening. Planting a seed for Fallen Angels seems like a smart thing to do, that being where Cable is going to show up.

I'm with you on the planting seeds bit.

[WeaponX]

Lmao we really are at the stage of #nazilivesmatter huh

As someone who’s Grandfathers fought the Nazis I will kindly say you’re completely missing my point. The point being made is that there is a fine line between fighting repugnant people like this and becoming them. Maybe I should have stayed with my less clunky analogy of you didn’t see the civil rights movement bombing clan rallies and killing southern police in response to their horrible violence because you just prove them right. Or how we didn’t go wiping out terrorist before 911 just because they wanted and planned to kill Americans.

[Daedra]

Yes evil mutants exist. But as we have seen with the 10 lives of Moira it's humanity that constantly tried to wipe out Muntantkind with very rarely the shoe being on the other foot. So I'm not sure what your point is? That mutants are fallible?

10 lives hardly account for the full range of possibilities the 616 reality offers, at the end of the day I'm pretty sure countless good powerless humans were slaughtered as well....it's just that they are not central to these comics