X-Men #1 preview

[Nullviahomo]

Marvel vs. X-Men. Coming 202X. It is...inevitable.

Wishing more for Marvel vs. Type-Moon.

The Machines can be co-opted via their programming (see: 'Nimrod, The pre-Bastion Redemption of' and 'Danger: An Experiment in Control')

The Superhumans, though.... they never help, they often hinder, and they give the humans something to aim for. Wouldn't it be better in the long run if we just......protected ourselves?

[Londo Bellian]

The Superhumans, though.... they never help, they often hinder, and they give the humans something to aim for.

Hate to do cross-brand for this, but isn't that what the positive thing about Superman is? Jor-El's speech about the ideal to strive towards was probably the only high point I can think from "Man of Steel."

[tuck frump]

Tony was in coma and Reed was MIA.

And then when mutants went to prevent their invention from being coopted and used to create Sentinels, the FF attacked them and jailed one of them. Funny how that comes off as flatscan heroes really not giving a crap whether mutants get exterminated or not.

[Nullviahomo]

Hate to do cross-brand for this, but isn't that what the positive thing about Superman is? Jor-El's speech about the ideal to strive towards was probably the only high point I can think from "Man of Steel."

It's a fair point, but it's not the ethical probity and moral compass of the superhuman population that the creators of the post-humans are interested in, it's their replicatable powersets. People who can go toe-to-toe with Mutantkind and overwhelm them wouldn't need to hide behind temperamental adaptive robot killing machines.

At some point it would be very instructive to get a look at the history of Moira's 6th Life. It came after the two Xavier-centric lives (Classic X-Men and X-Attilan) both fell to Sentinels, so what did she try in Life 6 that failed so utterly but still took 1000 years and the revelations of the Librarian to convince her she should take a crack at eliminating the Machines at source?

[Fokken]

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My thoughts
Storm's dialogue: They are seeking out Orchis facilities to demolish their murder-bots. She is warning Scott of their enemy's willingness to kill/suicide-bomb because they know they've lost this fight. The "conquered people" is not a sweeping statement for humanity. She is talking specifically about these Orchis murder-bot people. And c'mon. Storm's always had a theatricality to her speeches. She can be...what's the term? Haughty?

Scott's dialogue: He's giving me double entendre vibes with some of his word choice. His comments about slapping on a new coat of paint and trying to pass the past as the future feels to me, both a commentary on mutants moving on from their prior passive existence hoping for tolerance (aka, not getting killed because they were "standing while mutant") and also a statement that the violent, hateful, rhetoric these "brilliant minds" preach and practice is archaic bullshit and should fade away. Acceptance > Tolerance.

Presumably the final panel is Magneto opening the wall, much to the devastation of the remaining Orchis soldiers?
Anywho, this is a very exciting preview in my humble opinion. We've all(?) read HoX/PoX and we've all got very strong opinions, clearly. Its been really fascinating to see the many perspectives on this new direction and how passionately people are defending their respective stance.

It may be an important reminder that the Quiet Council does not condone murder, this group is not the seedy X-Force kill squad of yesteryear, and vocalizing one's disdain for the members of a murder-bot factory-organization (I wouldn't think) necessarily be cause for contempt. I acknowledge full well that this paradigm shift has some questionable and even concerning developments, but I can't say this preview really triggers any of them for me.

[Nullviahomo]

And then when mutants went to prevent their invention from being coopted and used to create Sentinels, the FF attacked them and jailed one of them. Funny how that comes off as flatscan heroes really not giving a crap whether mutants get exterminated or not.

Is that a Faux News retelling of the scene where the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants murdered numerous guards in the process of stealing technology from Damage Inc and the FF intercepted them before they could escape?

[jwatson]

The Machines can be co-opted via their programming (see: 'Nimrod, The pre-Bastion Redemption of' and 'Danger: An Experiment in Control')

The Superhumans, though.... they never help, they often hinder, and they give the humans something to aim for. Wouldn't it be better in the long run if we just......protected ourselves?

This is sort of a false statement. The machines can be co-opted for a time but at the end of the day it becomes an endless battle between syntehic humans and machines with humans about 990 years from now surrendering their humanity and becoming slaves to their own creations, the machines. Everything that makes a human a human will disappear, that is the end result based on the story hickman is telling.

[jwatson]

This is sort of a false statement. The machines can be co-opted for a time but at the end of the day it becomes an endless battle between syntehic humans and machines with humans about 990 years from now surrendering their humanity and becoming slaves to their own creations, the machines. Everything that makes a human a human will disappear, that is the end result based on the story hickman is telling.

At the end of the day coexistance with mutants, or rather your naturally evolved brothers is the only way humanity survives in some form but man will always want to make a tower to heaven.

[RachelGrey]

Sharing is caring!

My thoughts
Storm's dialogue: They are seeking out Orchis facilities to demolish their murder-bots. She is warning Scott of their enemy's willingness to kill/suicide-bomb because they know they've lost this fight. The "conquered people" is not a sweeping statement for humanity. She is talking specifically about these Orchis murder-bot people. And c'mon. Storm's always had a theatricality to her speeches. She can be...what's the term? Haughty?

Scott's dialogue: He's giving me double entendre vibes with some of his word choice. His comments about slapping on a new coat of paint and trying to pass the past as the future feels to me, both a commentary on mutants moving on from their prior passive existence hoping for tolerance (aka, not getting killed because they were "standing while mutant") and also a statement that the violent, hateful, rhetoric these "brilliant minds" preach and practice is archaic bullshit and should fade away. Acceptance > Tolerance.

Presumably the final panel is Magneto opening the wall, much to the devastation of the remaining Orchis soldiers?
Anywho, this is a very exciting preview in my humble opinion. We've all(?) read HoX/PoX and we've all got very strong opinions, clearly. Its been really fascinating to see the many perspectives on this new direction and how passionately people are defending their respective stance.

It may be an important reminder that the Quiet Council does not condone murder, this group is not the seedy X-Force kill squad of yesteryear, and vocalizing one's disdain for the members of a murder-bot factory-organization (I wouldn't think) necessarily be cause for contempt. I acknowledge full well that this paradigm shift has some questionable and even concerning developments, but I can't say this preview really triggers any of them for me.

Putting aside some of the problems on Krakoa with certain villains. I take this is a special forces mission by a young government protecting their borders from attack. This is no different than the Israeli government deploying Mossad to hunt down escaped Nazi's that were being harboured all over the world and bringing those Nazi's to justice and trial.

The X-Men are on a mission to capture racist terrorist soldiers who are participating in missions to perpetuate genocide on mutants. The banter between Storm and Cyclops is the kind of banter you would find between a lot of members of a special forces unit as they take down a violent terrorist cell that has a confirmed cache of destructive weapons. This is a confirmed military target for Krakoa, the intel was correct, this is a confirmed Orchis base where they are stockpiling and manufacturing weapons for an imminent attack on Krakoa. This is no different than any country deploying their special forces to contain the terrorist target and capture as many combatants as possible.

The reason this feels so different is, sure everyone kind of feels like they drank too much Kool Aid, I will concede that one, everyone is really gung ho about Krakoa. That could be taken two ways though, are they being mind controlled, or are they just so exhausted of humans constantly trying to kill them that they are savouring this moment that they can stand on the world stage as a nation protecting itself.

The X-books are going to be stories about a young nation on the rise in the world of the Marvel Universe and the successes and mistakes they make along the way. In a way the X-Men have now become the SHIELD of Krakoa, they are the special defence force of Krakoa. So the books are definitely going to have a military feel, because in a sense that is exactly what they are, branches of the military.
X-Men - military special forces
X-Force - clandestine services branch
Marauders - naval command
New Mutants - NASA - space exploration
Excalibur - specialized military division that deals with magic phenomena - Area 51
Fallen Angels - a team that operates outside of the jurisdiction of the Krakoan government and are disavowed - Mission Impossible

[RachelGrey]

At the end of the day coexistance with mutants, or rather your naturally evolved brothers is the only way humanity survives in some form but man will always want to make a tower to heaven.

That's a good analogy. Humans willingly sell out their own existence and individuality to become part of the Phalanx consciousness because it is a form of immortality, sort of. But humans would rather become pieces of data embedded in the Phalanx consciousness than they would to embrace mutants as their brothers and sisters and strive to advance forward together.

[Nullviahomo]

This is sort of a false statement. The machines can be co-opted for a time but at the end of the day it becomes an endless battle between syntehic humans and machines with humans about 990 years from now surrendering their humanity and becoming slaves to their own creations, the machines. Everything that makes a human a human will disappear, that is the end result based on the story hickman is telling.

That's sort of what happened in Life 6, yes, with a dash of Life 9, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Moira has seen mutants lose over and over again, and the one constant has always been the role played by the killing machines. Sentinels and Nimrods, either exterminating mutantkind themselves or holding the line until post-humanity can make themselves replacement-proof.

So why not try the one thing she's never tried before? United mutantkind + evolved machines? Use the advanced knowledge she's gained through her multiple lifetimes to mess with the base programming of the Sentinels at source and introduce code that would eventually evolve them into allies of mutantkind without the humans noticing? 'Something' happened to the programming of the original 616 Nimrod to turn him against mutant genocide, didn't it? And the timeline he came from was an extension of the normal 616. Something similar happened to the wild-sentinel that attacked Genosha. Danger herself is a walking, talking test-case for a hyper-evolved artificial intelligence choosing to side with her fellow mutants. If that's Moira's plan it would certainly explain why she's so adamant about her no pre-cogs rule. A future where mutants and machines together exterminate superhumanity would be... problematic for a lot of the X-Men, to say the least.

[Maestroneto]

Tony was in coma and Reed was MIA.

Tony has been back for over a year and he didn't take care of things, resulting in his invention being directly responsible for the genocide of mutantkind (and later humanity).

But we already know from AvX that Tony is a human supremacist, so it's no surprise he don't care.

[RachelGrey]

That's sort of what happened in Life 6, yes, with a dash of Life 9, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Moira has seen mutants lose over and over again, and the one constant has always been the role played by the killing machines. Sentinels and Nimrods, either exterminating mutantkind themselves or holding the line until post-humanity can make themselves replacement-proof.

So why not try the one thing she's never tried before? United mutantkind + evolved machines? Use the advanced knowledge she's gained through her multiple lifetimes to mess with the base programming of the Sentinels at source and introduce code that would eventually evolve them into allies of mutantkind without the humans noticing? 'Something' happened to the programming of the original 616 Nimrod to turn him against mutant genocide, didn't it? And the timeline he came from was an extension of the normal 616. Something similar happened to the wild-sentinel that attacked Genosha. Danger herself is a walking, talking test-case for a hyper-evolved artificial intelligence choosing to side with her fellow mutants. If that's Moira's plan it would certainly explain why she's so adamant about her no pre-cogs rule. A future where mutants and machines together exterminate superhumanity would be... problematic for a lot of the X-Men, to say the least.

Ooh, that is something I am very curious about. It's actually 811 Nimrod, he is from the same universe as Rachel, Ahab, and older Franklin. But yes, he was slowly becoming more progressive in his views about mutants right up to when he accidentally touched a piece of Master Mold and he was infected with the Master Mold virus. In fighting the virus which was trying to rewrite his core programming Nimrod finally became aware of the follow of the war between mutants and humans, and he even realized that both himself and Master Mold had "mutated" from their original program and were themselves in fact mutants. He was able to hold Master Mold in place internally long enough for Rogue to push them through the Siege Perilous and save everyone. The problem was that the Siege Perilous actually recognized them as sentient entities so it granted them a 2nd chance at life, but the Siege Perilous could not separate them so it merged them into Bastion with Master Mold as the dominant personality. Now what would happen if they were separated from each other, would 811 Nimrod see himself as a mutant and then proceed to ally himself with the Mutants and redefine his programming that his new mission is to protect mutant kind from the rise of the Sentinels.

I would be very curious if something like this happened where Bastion is split in two and Master Mold and 811 Nimrod are both reborn as separate entities and arch enemies that want to kill each other.

[RachelGrey]

Tony has been back for over a year and he didn't take care of things, resulting in his invention being directly responsible for the genocide of mutantkind (and later humanity).

But we already know from AvX that Tony is a human supremacist, so it's no surprise he don't care.

I would love it if they are having a discussion about Rachel's world and she just casually mentions that Tony Stark went down in history in her universe as the great traitor who programmed the Sentinels to kill all the Avengers and Fantastic Four.

[tuck frump]

Is that a Faux News retelling of the scene where the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants murdered numerous guards in the process of stealing technology from Damage Inc and the FF intercepted them before they could escape?

Torch and Thing attacked them as they were fleeing from DC and called them thieves. Theres no indication they knew Creed had killed the guards, its only Reed who brought it up later. So they simply attacked them for stealing from a facility they themselves know is shady and have tried to prevent from acquiring their inventions in the past.

Moreover, they could have asked Scott what was stolen or investigated themselves instead of dumping Creed in jail and calling it a day. HoX #1 datapage told us most of DC acquisitions are Richards and Starks inventions so you'd think the FF would feel concerned. But since its mutie business they cant seem to be bothered.