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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    I feel like the villains(except Sabretooth) are acting more OOC than anything.
    Ditto. Feels weird how everyone just accepted this new arrangement and they're all working together somewhat peacefully.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Agreed 100%
    To which I'll add...I'm not that surprised by their tone/attitude to their characters because:
    This is not Claremont's X-Men. Different time, different premise.
    The place of power in which they now find themselves engenders a new tone/attitude. A bold, fierce, independent spirit is needed to keep, protect and develop what they're building on Krakoa.
    I think maybe it might have helped to have a more character-driven telling of what lead to that change in ideology as a group before or in between Hox/Pox; suffice to say, the complete flipping of one's morals don't just happen overnight. Sure, we've gotten Moira and Xavier's point of views...but that's it. Everyone else just feels...so extreme and sudden. Scott I can buy 50/50, considering Rosenberg's run...but then, in it's own way, this whole event actually feels very divorced from that by virtue of not being mentioned. It's as if we just got a full-on reboot in terms of character voice and perspective as opposed to direction. We needed to see Scott and Xavier's reunification within this whole event, basically and, from that, the convincing of his friends and such. Right now it's just as if everyone's woke up and said "Yeah, ok, death to the flatscans" like they were ordering coffee.

    There's a missing piece people are looking for, basically. How has X lead to Y.

    But even then, from a creative stand point; I don't actually see Hickman's twist of Moira being a mutant a 're-contextualisation.' I see it as a retcon. Sure, he's referencing past events, but there isn't the same heart there...what these characters were thinking and feeling then is so, so different to the views they hold on it now...and a lot of those, such as Moira's death, were very poignant and most of all heart breaking. I can't read the issue following her death, Xavier's monologue to be exact, and see these as the same characters reflecting the same events, regardless of if Xavier's 'replaced' himself or what have you.

    Emotionally, it doesn't make sense.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    Ditto. Feels weird how everyone just accepted this new arrangement and they're all working together somewhat peacefully.
    Eh, it's barely started yet.

    Or do you think they (Apocalypse, Sinister, Exodus etc) would attack Xavier, Magneto and the X-Men on the spot instead of hearing them out, playing along and seeing how they can best take advantage of this new situation in due time?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Thunderbird View Post
    While Jean appeared to take the deaths of her team poorly in House of X 4, she doesn't seem to be mutant supremacist like some others were veering toward. I like how she continued to care for the welfare of humans like when not wanting to kill non combatants in the space station and coming up with the kill no humans law.
    Jean has been feeling deaths since he was a kid, it shouldn't affect her.

    Jean seems the only one that cares about humans lives, so this is consistent but it is weird that she went with the flow with Krakoa

  5. #20
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    We didn’t really see enough of the actual X-men in this series to really tell, lol.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    We haven’t really seen anyone’s thoughts on Krakoa, so we don’t know that everyone is just blindly getting along as assumed. Besides, most of what separated the X-Men from their villains was their approach to survival. Like I can easily see the MLF agreeing to live under Krakoa and the more hardline stances that Xavier and Magneto have taken in order to defend their new mutant haven.


  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I think maybe it might have helped to have a more character-driven telling of what lead to that change in ideology as a group before or in between Hox/Pox; suffice to say, the complete flipping of one's morals don't just happen overnight. Sure, we've gotten Moira and Xavier's point of views...but that's it. Everyone else just feels...so extreme and sudden. Scott I can buy 50/50, considering Rosenberg's run...but then, in it's own way, this whole event actually feels very divorced from that by virtue of not being mentioned. It's as if we just got a full-on reboot in terms of character voice and perspective as opposed to direction. We needed to see Scott and Xavier's reunification within this whole event, basically and, from that, the convincing of his friends and such. Right now it's just as if everyone's woke up and said "Yeah, ok, death to the flatscans" like they were ordering coffee.

    There's a missing piece people are looking for, basically. How has X lead to Y.

    But even then, from a creative stand point; I don't actually see Hickman's twist of Moira being a mutant a 're-contextualisation.' I see it as a retcon. Sure, he's referencing past events, but there isn't the same heart there...what these characters were thinking and feeling then is so, so different to the views they hold on it now...and a lot of those, such as Moira's death, were very poignant and most of all heart breaking. I can't read the issue following her death, Xavier's monologue to be exact, and see these as the same characters reflecting the same events, regardless of if Xavier's 'replaced' himself or what have you.

    Emotionally, it doesn't make sense.
    Better said than I could have done… when I remember these old issues, I remember the emotions I felt… and now, Hickman is like saying: "what you thought true and felt, well it wasn't".
    Krakoa isn't Xavier's dream, it hasn't never been his… maybe Magneto's… Moira, even human without super-powers, was a strong figure… Ororo has always been a kind person, I remember her warmth… and so on…
    Hickman could have made differently, be nice to the mutants without messing up previous works.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  8. #23
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    Sinister isnt supposed to sound like Joker.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Better said than I could have done… when I remember these old issues, I remember the emotions I felt… and now, Hickman is like saying: "what you thought true and felt, well it wasn't".
    Krakoa isn't Xavier's dream, it hasn't never been his… maybe Magneto's… Moira, even human without super-powers, was a strong figure… Ororo has always been a kind person, I remember her warmth… and so on…
    Hickman could have made differently, be nice to the mutants without messing up previous works.
    krakoa is Moira dream.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Better said than I could have done… when I remember these old issues, I remember the emotions I felt… and now, Hickman is like saying: "what you thought true and felt, well it wasn't".
    Krakoa isn't Xavier's dream, it hasn't never been his… maybe Magneto's… Moira, even human without super-powers, was a strong figure… Ororo has always been a kind person, I remember her warmth… and so on…
    Hickman could have made differently, be nice to the mutants without messing up previous works.
    This!! All of this!

    You're right; it's basically as if he's just said "All that emotional investment you put in? Well weren't you just stupid."

    And worse; it's made a liar out of the two warmest and influential characters in the X-Men series. Ok, sure, Charles was far from a saint, let's be honest; but the idea that he's been faking all of that mourning for Moira? Known all of the grief and strife he's going to put these kids who trusted him through for so long? Even working behind the scenes with Magneto at a time where they were supposedly at each other's throats? And letting even his own team buy into that?

    That goes a bit beyond what I can believe in the context that Hickman's pushing; perhaps if we hadn't seen any of Charles inner monologues then, yes, I could buy it...but we did. And I just cannot reconcile the idea that he and Moira were so sociopathic as to put them through this...especially if, as they say, they did care so much for all of these characters?

  11. #26
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    Ditto. Feels weird how everyone just accepted this new arrangement and they're all working together somewhat peacefully.
    I’m assuming there’s something in it for all of them. Xavier supportes Sinister’s genetic endeavours, promised Mystique Destiny, etc. We just aren’t clear on what everyone’s agenda is because it’s early yet and not necessary for setting up Hickman’s status quo.


    Quote Originally Posted by myownlittleusername View Post
    Eh, it's barely started yet.

    Or do you think they (Apocalypse, Sinister, Exodus etc) would attack Xavier, Magneto and the X-Men on the spot instead of hearing them out, playing along and seeing how they can best take advantage of this new situation in due time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    We haven’t really seen anyone’s thoughts on Krakoa, so we don’t know that everyone is just blindly getting along as assumed. Besides, most of what separated the X-Men from their villains was their approach to survival. Like I can easily see the MLF agreeing to live under Krakoa and the more hardline stances that Xavier and Magneto have taken in order to defend their new mutant haven.

    everything these guys said. keep in mind a lot of these so-called villains were acting in the interest of mutants - this is more or less what they wanted. It’s the Sinisters and Apocalypses that stick out, and I’m assuming their motives will be (further) explained down the line

  12. #27
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    I agree, many of the X-Men are not exactly acting like themselves.

    Nightcrawler is out of sorts. He's retained his swashbuckling attitude, although he's a bit too cavalier not only about the future prospects of Xavier's whole endeavor, but Sabretooth's indefinite exile as well.

    His Catholicism seems to suspiciously allow for the "cloning"/"resurrection" process. Life and Death is no trivial matter. For Xavier to casually bring someone back to life wouldn't likely sit well with many devout individuals (Catholic or otherwise).

    Like others have pointed out, other X-Men are not acting like themselves either. I'm just curious if this is on purpose or if it's just someone's writing style?

  13. #28
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Reading PoX 06 we do know what led to Xavier's change in ideology.
    Moira's past lives ALL ending in the extinction of the mutant race.
    What changed for Scott, Jean , Storm, Apocalypse etc...is the making and building of something strong and safe and hopefully lasting and positively impactful for ALL mutants. While I don't read their stance as morally flipped, I understand and fully accept that their desire to protect what they have now, would change how they deal with antagonistic forces from without and in Sabretooth's case, from within.
    I don't read their actions as OOC, not in the least.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 10-13-2019 at 12:46 PM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Reading PoX 06 we do know what led to Xavier's change in ideology.
    Moira's past lives ALL ending in the extinction of the mutant race.
    What changed for Scott, Jean , Storm, Apocalypse etc...is the making and building of something strong and safe and hopefully lasting and positively impactful for ALL mutants. While I don't read their stance as morally flipped, I understand and fully accept that their desire to protect what they have now, would change how they deal with antagonistic forces from without and in Sabretooth's case, from within.
    I don't read their actions as OOC, not in the least.
    But see, I think we needed to these characters consider and process this change in ideology first rather than back-track later on as justification; that's what makes it feel ooc for me, because everyone's just basically like "Yeah, ok!" in what feels like a very, very short amount of time between the start of this run and the end of the last.

  15. #30
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Well, if you feel that strongly about it, you could take it up with HiX-Man and Editorial and let them know what you think of their decisions and you can also suggest how they and the DoX writers should approach the upcoming stories so that you would be better able to understand and appreciate them.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

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