HOX/POX OOC X-men?

[Talon1load]

Yupp. Pretty much.

I think HiX-Man decided that those types of "We'll fight to the Death for the Dream!" stories have been told and done to death by various writers since Claremont and it has become quite stale and stagnant (and I whole-heartedly agree)...thus it was time to shake things up, vere off on a different angle, try something exciting and ballsy.
Ironically, they'll still be fighting for the right to exist and be but this time on more equal footing.

See, I think the "all humans want to exterminate mutants" stories have been told to death and are EXTREMELY stale. Why can't we get back to the X-Men being heroes? Sure, there will always be those who discriminate against them but what happened to the stories were they actually saved people and won hearts and minds? I think continuously writing this extinction angle is lazy and shows a lack of imagination and subtlety.

[Tycon]

Well good thing we aren’t dealing with extinction stories and the X-Men are being heroes.

[Talon1load]

I disagree. They are starting their own nation because they are afraid of extinction and they are acting much less like heroes and more like supremacists. I acknowledge that they are now working with resurrection so I guess they can't go extinct but they it's still more of the humans hate us and we have to pull away from humanity crap. Also, the resurrection is lazy writing too. Now the characters don't have even less consequences than the average comic.

[Devaishwarya]

I was definitely alluding to those "Extinction-level-all-day-every-year" stories, actually.

edit...
LOL at "afraid of extinction".

I wonder...is there any one who's NOT afraid of extinction?

[Talon1load]

I was definitely alluding to those "Extinction-level-all-day-every-year" stories, actually.

I don't see how this is a different direction at all. The preview for X-Men 1 has them attacking terrorists who are building an army to wipe them out. That's the same damn storyline that has been running through the X-Men since Morrison came on board. The X-Men used to have other adventures and it wasn't a constant fight for survival. They used to be heroes.

[Talon1load]

They used to fight evil mutants to show the world that they could be heroes. Now they are siding with them and proving everyone's fears right.

[ColossusFan]

Of course the characters are OOC..they're basically in a creepier, cultier Inhumans book

How can they be in character if they're not even in the right book?

[Ulfhammer]

Xavier is doing basically the same thing Scott did in Utopia but with more means and more mutants. Why should Scott be against him? He feels more comfortable in a military position than in politics, he should have no problem with Xavier carrying everything from Krakoa while he directs the X-men.

Scott felt kinda broken in Rosencanny. Combine that with Xavier finally coming around to his Utopia-era philosphy, and I can see it.

My concerns aren't about whether it's reasonable that Scott, Ro or Jean would find merit in Charles plan. It's more about would they trust him? Scott booted Charles for a reason. He was disruptive and had a track record of lying or obfuscating the truth when it suited him. Since he's been back, that hasn't changed. I pointed to the Astonishing Annual as evidence of that. Beyond that we know from HOX that's he again chosen to leave his senior X-Men in ignorance, rather than treat them like adults. It's Charles' judgement that was the problem, not his intent. I see no evidence that's changed, and I don't see why the X-men would believe it has.

[Devaishwarya]

You clearly did not read the last couple of sentences of my post where I said "shake things up...vere off on a different angle...Ironically, ...etc"

[Talon1load]

I was definitely alluding to those "Extinction-level-all-day-every-year" stories, actually.

edit...
LOL at "afraid of extinction".

I wonder...is there any one who's NOT afraid of extinction?

I'm not. Are you? If so, why?

[Lapsus]

They used to fight evil mutants to show the world that they could be heroes. Now they are siding with them and proving everyone's fears right.

They used to fight both, evil mutants and evil humans (and other weird things), the evil mutants resonate more because they are way more popular and cooler which makes them more common.

Do you believe that they are going to fight Orchis goons for all eternity ?? The evil mutants are pretty much still evil, Apocalypse seems to be calm but he can snap at any moment, they are just working together for now.

A goverment of Krakoa full of X-Men will be less interesting, Krakoa is not going to be morally perfect, they are there to precisely protect the X-Men moral, when **** hits the fan we will see where everyone values stand.

This is how i see it.

[TheDeadSpace]

My concerns aren't about whether it's reasonable that Scott, Ro or Jean would find merit in Charles plan. It's more about would they trust him? Scott booted Charles for a reason. He was disruptive and had a track record of lying or obfuscating the truth when it suited him. Since he's been back, that hasn't changed. I pointed to the Astonishing Annual as evidence of that. Beyond that we know from HOX that's he again chosen to leave his senior X-Men in ignorance, rather than treat them like adults. It's Charles' judgement that was the problem, not his intent. I see no evidence that's changed, and I don't see why the X-men would believe it has.

As someone that's ambivalent with a majority of the changes, I'm really hoping that upcoming comics delve into this area. With the world building and setup now out of the way, I'm hoping for characters to feel more independent and vocal about their views.

[Tycon]

And...
Didn't HiX-Man say hey/they will not be delving into pre-Krakoa plot-points? Certain issues will be addressed if it suits story in the moment to show a juxtaposition of/for the character then and now but there isn't going to be any in-depth retelling.

It seems as though the writers are of the mind that the very recent story-lines are not that relevant, if at all, to the Krakoa Era going forward...and I'm very good with that.

Yeah and they don’t really even need to be acknowledged. I do wish AOXM would be acknowledged only because there are so many loose ends are only seem to be spiritually continued in Dawn of X (eg a collective mutant nation, team compositions, villain reformation) that could be really fun to connect. But it’s also not that strong enough that it would ever have to be mentioned again.....sadly.

My concerns aren't about whether it's reasonable that Scott, Ro or Jean would find merit in Charles plan. It's more about would they trust him? Scott booted Charles for a reason. He was disruptive and had a track record of lying or obfuscating the truth when it suited him. Since he's been back, that hasn't changed. I pointed to the Astonishing Annual as evidence of that. Beyond that we know from HOX that's he again chosen to leave his senior X-Men in ignorance, rather than treat them like adults. It's Charles' judgement that was the problem, not his intent. I see no evidence that's changed, and I don't see why the X-men would believe it has.

His intent and dream are absolutely a part of what’s wrong. Coexistence requires compromise and the humans and systems they fight against won’t demand anything less than stuffing mutants in labs to experiment on them then kill them once they’re done. Once Cyclops and a Emma gave Charles the boot, they started to take a more realistic approach to survival and peace. Not to mention that the constant tiptoeing around taking a decisive stance of mutant rights has just lead to Sentinels killing everyone as we’ve seen with Moira’s 4th Life.

[H-E-D]

I wonder if they took the post-Age of X approach and deleted a lot of their AoXM memories

[TheDeadSpace]

His intent and dream are absolutely a part of what’s wrong. Coexistence requires compromise and the humans and systems they fight against won’t demand anything less than stuffing mutants in labs to experiment on them then kill them once they’re done. Once Cyclops and a Emma gave Charles the boot, they started to take a more realistic approach to survival and peace. Not to mention that the constant tiptoeing around taking a decisive stance of mutant rights has just lead to Sentinels killing everyone as we’ve seen with Moira’s 4th Life.

I don't necessarily agree with this view because of Moira's other lives. She did not take Xavier's approach to the situation and the outcome was similar or worse at times. Xavier's dream being tampered with seems to be part of the setup for Krakoa. I feel this aspect might come into play when things become troublesome. It also seems like it might just be a way to keep Xavier blame free if plans change.