View Poll Results: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

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  • Green Lantern (John Stewart)

    37 27.61%
  • Vixen (Mari McCabe)

    18 13.43%
  • Cyborg (Victor Stone)

    11 8.21%
  • Black Lightning/Vulcan (Jefferson Pierce)

    23 17.16%
  • Static (Virgil Hawkins)

    5 3.73%
  • Naomi (Naomi McDuffie)

    7 5.22%
  • Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt)

    6 4.48%
  • Steel (John Henry Irons)

    2 1.49%
  • Bumblebee (Karen Beecher)

    0 0%
  • Icon (Augustus Freeman IV)

    0 0%
  • Rocket (Raquel Ervin)

    0 0%
  • Amazing-Man (Any Version)

    1 0.75%
  • Aqualad (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde)

    1 0.75%
  • Other (Specify Below)

    3 2.24%
  • None

    20 14.93%
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  1. #151
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    but you do see how that's a leap from where we started tho, right? Yes Aqualad should tell LGBT stories and Jaime should tell Hispanic stories, no is asking that they or anyone else be restricted to oppression tales. Static was never forbidden from expressing his blackness, it informed his superheroics, and Milestone NEVER strayed away from allowing their characters to be who they are and say who they are; ever. Static wasn't a superhero who happened to be black, neither was Icon (who's origin literally starts with slavery) or Hardware (who's costumed included making himself MORE BLACK), they were black and they were superheroes and neither superseded the other. Because he proudly proclaims he's black he can only tell one kind of story? says who? I reject that premise because BLACK PANTHER exists. Black Panther made billions last year and became the biggest solo superhero movie of all time and the biggest predominately black-led, black written, and black directed film of all time. Black Panther has been telling all kinds of stories, has been used in all kinds of stories and events, and has played major roles front and center in all kinds of stories over at Marvel, and I know you have the numbers on his trades compared to any black character over at DC. There is nothing stopping Black Lightning or Duke or any black character from telling stories about race and a myriad of other stories besides editorial and the writers themselves. if these stories aren't good it's not these characters fault or their names, it's the fault of the creators telling shitty stories and both DC and Marvel need to get editors and writers who know what they are talking about if and when that's the case. And sure you can say "oh well Black Panther's name is based off an animal", but it's not a coincidence that the black guy has black in his name, he's another example of a character where acknowledging and/or affirming their blackness isn't taboo. Representation means nothing if they are not allowed to express who they are, that's the path to the sanitization and the tokenism. I'm not looking for representation by happenstance because it's often mediocre and easily replaceable with a cookie-cutter white character, and at worst, that's how you get the superhero equivalent of Crash; and you never go full Crash. I'm not saying this directly to YOU specifically, at this point i'm just arguing the point, [i digress] but Black Lightning having black in his name is not some regressive sin that will unravel the social discourse regarding race in comics and set black fandom back decades, and even if I concede that it were a problem, it would be intellectually dishonest to pretend that it is the most pressing issue regarding race in comics or the reason he's been held back from upper echelon status.
    My personal gripe with the type of stories you're suggesting is that I think they're tired as hell. Nearly every single notable black comic book hero has either done them or intrinsically has overt black stuff in their DNA, like Vixen and her totem powers, or Static and his street gang bang babies, Luke Cage and his correctional facility origin, and so on. There is no dearth of stories like that or characters like that, in comics and out of them. Actually, it's much more rare if I see a black comic character completely avoid racial commentary entirely. And what I REALLY have a problem with is the expectation that these stories must be done if there is a black character, and if they're not, somehow the writer is...oh, I don't know, not being real or legit, or something. The way I see it, if a character is locked in battle with a universal conqueror or whatever, he's probably got more pressing things in his mind than the pigmentation of his skin. But oh no! According to some, we shouldn't even have black characters fighting universal conquerors. They should be fighting cops or something because black people aren't allowed escapism like everyone else >__>
    I can't believe I actually read that tripe (no, I'm not referring to the post I quoted in this post).

  2. #152
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    Black comics havent been hardcore enough - still waiting for something like v for vendetta.

  3. #153
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Black comics havent been hardcore enough - still waiting for something like v for vendetta.
    You might want to look into Kwanza's stuff if that's what you're into. I can't tell you how good it is, but by the sounds of your interests, he might be up your alley.

    Like I said above, these black stories aren't particularly hard to find. Using black characters in fiction to soapbox is an age old thing.

  4. #154
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Honestly could see Naomi getting huge as she gets more spotlight because of Bendis

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    You might want to look into Kwanza's stuff if that's what you're into. I can't tell you how good it is, but by the sounds of your interests, he might be up your alley.

    Like I said above, these black stories aren't particularly hard to find. Using black characters in fiction to soapbox is an age old thing.
    Looks nicely done.

    I agree its probably the most common trope in black storylines but then its also one of the most pressing concerns in real life too. Go to africa and you will hear "oh we are all black brothers in africa" often enough then go out your door and you see army pointing guns at everyone Its a complete joke.

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    The only realistic answer is John Stewart. He can very quickly become the face of DC's 4th biggest comic franchise behind Batman, Superman and Flash if DC ever decided to have him become the main lead of the GL franchise. There is an easy path for him to reach that level while every other black hero is way behind and has far more obstacles. He is technically a legacy character but he isn't one in the same way a Dick Grayson or Wally West are where they are completely dependent and always structured behind their mentors in DC. Stewart is more laterally positioned behind Hal and is looked at as more of an equal and not as dependent on him.

    Outside of him I can't see anyone else really reaching that level outside of race swapping one of the trinity already. It is just so incredibly difficulty to create a new comic franchise behind a character that isn't already leading one. So while I see characters like Vixen, Static, Mr Terrific, Ion, or Black Lightning having a lot more room to grow with their potiental if used right they are still so far behind those top tier heroes and franchises that I can't imagine any of them getting there. Maybe Static years ago when he was emerging as DC's answer to Spider-man in the late and early 00s, but that window feels pretty much closed now. It felt like there was a chance for him to stand with Robin and be DC's premiere young heroes but it didn't work out.

  7. #157
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    Yeah, franchise is important. I can see GL toys and merch littering retail spaces in a way none of these other franchises can.

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Honestly could see Naomi getting huge as she gets more spotlight because of Bendis
    Yep as long as Bendis is there Naomi won’t get murdered as cannon fodder for an event, and he’s putting her on Young Justice. I like her, she’s got some cool worldbuilding going on, she’s joining the other teen heroes with Young Justice, she just needs a cool codename.
    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The only realistic answer is John Stewart. He can very quickly become the face of DC's 4th biggest comic franchise behind Batman, Superman and Flash if DC ever decided to have him become the main lead of the GL franchise. There is an easy path for him to reach that level while every other black hero is way behind and has far more obstacles. He is technically a legacy character but he isn't one in the same way a Dick Grayson or Wally West are where they are completely dependent and always structured behind their mentors in DC. Stewart is more laterally positioned behind Hal and is looked at as more of an equal and not as dependent on him.

    Outside of him I can't see anyone else really reaching that level outside of race swapping one of the trinity already. It is just so incredibly difficulty to create a new comic franchise behind a character that isn't already leading one. So while I see characters like Vixen, Static, Mr Terrific, Ion, or Black Lightning having a lot more room to grow with their potiental if used right they are still so far behind those top tier heroes and franchises that I can't imagine any of them getting there. Maybe Static years ago when he was emerging as DC's answer to Spider-man in the late and early 00s, but that window feels pretty much closed now. It felt like there was a chance for him to stand with Robin and be DC's premiere young heroes but it didn't work out.
    The problem Stewart faces now is that Johns has redefined the GL mythos and they all revolve around Hal. Hal was at the center of the War of Light and Blackest Night and he’s got the personal rivalry with Sinestro.

    Honestly Mr. Terrific is doing a pretty good job of leading the not!F4, I hope DC will allow him to keep that role. He could feasibly stand a chance if DC let’s Yang keep building him and the other Terrifics up. Vixen I fully believe has the potential but she needs a push. Put her on the JL, give her a mini (or preferably a Black Label book). She’s pretty much DC’s most prominent black heroine by default since there are so few black women heroes at DC in general, and Naomi is a newcomer.
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Yeah, franchise is important. I can see GL toys and merch littering retail spaces in a way none of these other franchises can.
    That’s not always a good thing though lol. GL:TAS was cancelled because they couldn’t sell GL toys after the movie bombed. Hopefully the stigma has gone away but sometimes when you see lots of merch, it’s because they can’t sell it.
    Last edited by Vordan; 10-15-2019 at 07:33 AM.

  9. #159
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    Honestly I feel like Vixen could have at least been Black Canary level if her solo had launched and did well those years ago. I will admit though while I'm happy Black Lightning is growing I've never particularly cared about his stories. I'm black and I'm glad we have heroes fighting of society and I've always been more into adventure aspects like superman stories or avatar the last airbender.

    I feel like Mari is such a good character and could be a fan favorite. If people feel as though she's a team player (which is kind of ridiculous) then give a Batman brave and the bold like title. Why is he the only one to team up with other superheroes? Vixen can at least fit in nearly every setting. Want her and Mera teaming up, aquatic animals.
    Her and Swamp thing what about some the Bayou animals could work. Magic is being distorted (JLDARK), no problem she now controls demon animals instead of normal ones. Beast boys done it when he is on alien planets or in hell fighting Trigon.

  10. #160
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    I might be in the minority (no pun intended) on this, but I feel as though Naomi McDuffie is too new of a character to be in this poll/discussion. Plus I feel as of right now, she is too connected to Superman to stand on her own as a character (much the same way RiRi Williams is too connected to Iron Man to stand on her own as a character).

    I honestly feel like Naomi is a Superman character.
    I agree that Naomi is too new to really belong in this poll, but give that girl some time. She could be the next big thing if DC doesn't screw it up.

    As for her being a Superman character.....no, I dont think so. But I can see how it'd feel that way. Her origin has nothing to do with Clark at all, and his involvement in her story has been tangential at best. He happened to crash through her home town once. She then hunted him down for advice and help (and he left two minutes later, leaving Naomi with Bruce). I think the shadow of Superman looms pretty large, but only because he's the world's greatest hero and in the DCU *everybody* wants to know what he's doing and imagine they have more in common with him than they realize. And the parallel of both he and Naomi being adopted gets some discussion too, but if you pulled all the discussion about Superman out of the book, nothing changes. I think Naomi is far less a Superman character than she is just a new OG character who's book used Clark as an attention-getting guest star.
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  11. #161
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I feel like when real life African-Americans aren't murdered by police in their own homes while eating ice cream or playing video games then we can have more of your frivolously happy and safe African-American heroes that run from reality and fight dinosaurs and mad scientists.
    I'm pretty sure we can have both.

    We've got Mr. Terrific doing his crazy FF thing, and The Terrifics haven't really done a damn thing with the fact that Holt is black. And I don't recall the last time I saw John's race play a role in any of his stories (it's always about how he killed a planet, which is beyond played out). For that matter, I don't recall a lot of Vixen stories that deal with her race, and Cyborg is usually more about his "man or machine/disabled" themes than his blackness (though there's overlap there in his stories at times).

    So I feel like if Jeff dealt with street crime and social issues that black communities deal with, it'd be okay. He can (and should) have a wider range of narrative than just that, but he was created as a street level guy, most of his history has been tied up in social commentary, and I don't see anything wrong with him continuing that conversation any more than there's a problem with Arrow still being the knee-jerk leftist he's been since the 60's.

    Oh, and someone asked why we don't have comics dealing with white privilege. What do you think Batman is? The super rich white boy who knows better than anyone, is more capable than anyone (despite the fact that he really shouldnt be) and gets to boss everyone around. You couldnt get more white privilege than Batman if you tried!
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    Honestly I feel like Vixen could have at least been Black Canary level if her solo had launched and did well those years ago.
    Balck Canary is also not exactly a big character, she does well on team books, but she had never a long lasting solo.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Balck Canary is also not exactly a big character, she does well on team books, but she had never a long lasting solo.
    Yeah but people at least know the name Black Canary. She's in arrow, was in injustices, and had quite a bit of a role in JLU. She was also in Young Justice, so I'm sure casual fans know her a lot. When people mention B characters and who should be the next female member on the JL she well get mentioned more often than Mari.

  14. #164
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    To be honest it is a tad sad seeing everyone excited for these old groups coming back like the JLA, Young Justice, and the Legion knowing really all the white characters are coming back, not that it's a problem. But when not even Blue beetle can appear in Young Justice (yet) or Tyroc in Legion how can we get any minority character to be at least C listers. Most of the minority character in YJ are new, Legions have been racebent, and there will maybe not be any minority character on the JSA. Minorities rarely get brought up unless it's a specific thread like this.

    I will admit though there are quite a bit a DC fans out there that have favorite minority characters alongside there favorite iconic ones. People really do care for minority characters and I hope nobody makes them feel like a racist for not talking about them much. It happens and it's not their fault because they like a group that might not have minority characters. We shouldn't attack posters because they happen to like Hal Jordan over John Stewart.
    Last edited by Shockingjustice; 10-15-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #165
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The only realistic answer is John Stewart. He can very quickly become the face of DC's 4th biggest comic franchise behind Batman, Superman and Flash if DC ever decided to have him become the main lead of the GL franchise. There is an easy path for him to reach that level while every other black hero is way behind and has far more obstacles. He is technically a legacy character but he isn't one in the same way a Dick Grayson or Wally West are where they are completely dependent and always structured behind their mentors in DC. Stewart is more laterally positioned behind Hal and is looked at as more of an equal and not as dependent on him.
    I agree with this 100%.

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