View Poll Results: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

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  • Green Lantern (John Stewart)

    49 30.06%
  • Vixen (Mari McCabe)

    18 11.04%
  • Cyborg (Victor Stone)

    13 7.98%
  • Black Lightning/Vulcan (Jefferson Pierce)

    30 18.40%
  • Static (Virgil Hawkins)

    7 4.29%
  • Naomi (Naomi McDuffie)

    9 5.52%
  • Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt)

    7 4.29%
  • Steel (John Henry Irons)

    4 2.45%
  • Bumblebee (Karen Beecher)

    0 0%
  • Icon (Augustus Freeman IV)

    1 0.61%
  • Rocket (Raquel Ervin)

    0 0%
  • Amazing-Man (Any Version)

    1 0.61%
  • Aqualad (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde)

    1 0.61%
  • Other (Specify Below)

    3 1.84%
  • None

    20 12.27%
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  1. #451
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    I found it really troubling how the franchise collapse after Johns left. Too many wars, and not enough character development really exposed the ring-slingers, imo.
    The problem was the Other Corps were created for a single purpose: The War of Light and building up to Blackest Night. After BN they basically had no reason to exist except for the Sinestros and maybe the Reds. The others just didn’t have anything to sustain them outside that endgame so they’ve fallen by the wayside.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The problem was the Other Corps were created for a single purpose: The War of Light and building up to Blackest Night. After BN they basically had no reason to exist except for the Sinestros and maybe the Reds. The others just didn’t have anything to sustain them outside that endgame so they’ve fallen by the wayside.
    Yeah, too much event driven arcs, and not enough character driven arcs equals no bueno.

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    It's not about "giving up." You want something that has virtually never happened, and there isn't much reason to believe it to happen. John Stewart has never led the Green Lantern franchise, yet I get a feeling from you like you're acting like if you spam enough images from a Wizard magazine from...Jesus, like 15 or 16 years ago, it will somehow happen. Wizard magazine didn't prove anything, because Wizard magazine never published Green Lantern comics regularly. It just published a "What if" pitch, and I'm frankly surprised at the effect that had on you, seeing as it was only a pitch with a few images. I guess there's something kind of endearing about that, but I don't think we should lose perspective. It wasn't as if it was an actual line of comics that came out, just some mental masturbation from Wizard with some comic art put behind it.

    This example may be a bit extreme, but it would be like if I was wishing super hard that the next day I woke up, the sun would be purple. But maybe if I spam .jpegs, and WISH really hard, it will happen, because, of course, that's the only thing that makes sense, right? Everyone--and there will be many--who don't see it my way can just be disregarded, right? If they want to make noise, let them. We don't need them to have our purple sunned world! We can just pretend they don't exist and what they want is irrelevant.
    Still more likely to happen than anything you've talked about. Besides Black Panther, John is comics' most popular black character. Like Wizard and the DCAU and several graphic novels demonstrate, GL doesn't need Hal Jordan. That's reality.

  4. #454
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Shaw View Post
    Yeah, too much event driven arcs, and not enough character driven arcs equals no bueno.
    Although there was a lot of characterization in those arcs in my opinion, especially for the other Corps. leaders.

  5. #455
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Although there was a lot of characterization in those arcs in my opinion, especially for the other Corps. leaders.
    I think Johns did a great job with the Corps; fleshing out how their powers worked and exploring some of their members, there was plenty of good stuff there.....but he didn't give them a reason to exist beyond his plans for Blackest Night.

    I love the various Corps (even if they did swallow cosmic DC whole for a while) but what purpose do the Blues serve now? Other than being power-ups for the Greens they have no purpose. Same goes for most of them. The Reds as a biker gang was f*cking fantastic but a thin reason for a Corps, the Indigos could, what, be some kind of deep state prison program for "fixing" criminals, but that's not a self-sufficient reason for the Indigos to exist, especially as an independent group.

    Sinestro has an army now, and Larfleeze (when was the last time he even showed up?) works as a villain. Other than that Johns didn't really give the Corps a long-term purpose.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Still more likely to happen than anything you've talked about. Besides Black Panther, John is comics' most popular black character. Like Wizard and the DCAU and several graphic novels demonstrate, GL doesn't need Hal Jordan. That's reality.
    The comic book side says otherwise. That is the issue. An annoying issue. That we have seen way too many times with John.

    Everybody OUTSIDE of mainstream DC can find a use for John of substance. Some even try their best to make use of all them as the Star Trek Green Lantern crossover showed.

    Yet in mainstream DC-no one can do anything with him beyond lip service. They are forcing Hal Jordan down everyone's throats. No matter what any other Lantern does. And the SAD thing is they don't have to.
    With all those OTHER books like GL Legacy and the one that came out today starring a black woman-they proved that the franchise can support MANY versus being held hostage by one.

    John is the same boat as Cyborg & Storm-you can be popular all you like but where is the MATERIAL to support it?

    Black Panther has a billion dollar movie, 30+ trades, 3 Oscars, a cartoon show, a season on EMH, A TON of toys and other merchandise. Despite having the WORST writer on his book now.

    What does John have? He needs material. Because OTHERS are getting it.

  7. #457
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    Black panther is a strong concept - a scifi riff on haile selassie and lots to work with but when kirby comes to DC they get The Black Racer - def not the silver surfer level concept

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Still more likely to happen than anything you've talked about. Besides Black Panther, John is comics' most popular black character. Like Wizard and the DCAU and several graphic novels demonstrate, GL doesn't need Hal Jordan. That's reality.
    I haven't talked all that much. I'm not behind any of these characters, truth be told. None of them will reach trinity status, none of them really have the potential to do that (though I don't want to say too much about Naomi, because she's so new and she hasn't been performing badly, but her problem is that only Bendis can and will write her to where she will matter), and probably none of them will have very stable consistent franchises. That's what's most likely, I'd say.

    And if John Stewart is comics' second most popular character (personally, I don't know that he is. I'd say at least Spawn is more popular than him), then that is kind of a sad state of affairs from my perspective. Not necessarily something to laud.
    Last edited by Vampire Savior; 11-13-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I haven't talked all that much. I'm not behind any of these characters, truth be told. None of them will reach trinity status, none of them really have the potential to do that (though I don't want to say too much about Naomi, because she's so new and she hasn't been performing badly, but her problem is that only Bendis can and will write her to where she will matter), and probably none of them will have very stable consistent franchises. That's what's most likely, I'd say.

    And if John Stewart is comics' second most popular character (personally, I don't know that he is. I'd say at least Spawn is more popular than him), then that is kind of a sad state of affairs from my perspective. Not necessarily something to laud.
    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The comic book side says otherwise. That is the issue. An annoying issue. That we have seen way too many times with John.

    Everybody OUTSIDE of mainstream DC can find a use for John of substance. Some even try their best to make use of all them as the Star Trek Green Lantern crossover showed.

    Yet in mainstream DC-no one can do anything with him beyond lip service. They are forcing Hal Jordan down everyone's throats. No matter what any other Lantern does. And the SAD thing is they don't have to.
    With all those OTHER books like GL Legacy and the one that came out today starring a black woman-they proved that the franchise can support MANY versus being held hostage by one.

    John is the same boat as Cyborg & Storm-you can be popular all you like but where is the MATERIAL to support it?

    Black Panther has a billion dollar movie, 30+ trades, 3 Oscars, a cartoon show, a season on EMH, A TON of toys and other merchandise. Despite having the WORST writer on his book now.

    What does John have? He needs material. Because OTHERS are getting it.
    Don't think Spawn is as recognizable in the mainstream even with more comics, the 90s movie, and the cartoon. Believe John has the potential to go even farther than Black Panther. But, yes, there is work to be done.

  10. #460
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    The comic book side says otherwise. That is the issue. An annoying issue. That we have seen way too many times with John.

    Everybody OUTSIDE of mainstream DC can find a use for John of substance. Some even try their best to make use of all them as the Star Trek Green Lantern crossover showed.

    Yet in mainstream DC-no one can do anything with him beyond lip service. They are forcing Hal Jordan down everyone's throats. No matter what any other Lantern does. And the SAD thing is they don't have to.
    With all those OTHER books like GL Legacy and the one that came out today starring a black woman-they proved that the franchise can support MANY versus being held hostage by one.

    John is the same boat as Cyborg & Storm-you can be popular all you like but where is the MATERIAL to support it?

    Black Panther has a billion dollar movie, 30+ trades, 3 Oscars, a cartoon show, a season on EMH, A TON of toys and other merchandise. Despite having the WORST writer on his book now.

    What does John have? He needs material. Because OTHERS are getting it.
    For what it's worth, T'Challa is the protagonist of his franchise. John isn't, and he shares the power set of literally everyone except Alan. Kind of.

    Hal being the face of GL for multiple generations now is a problem but the biggest one facing John and the rest is how to make them unique. I think Guy gets by because he's the JLI Lantern who gets **** on by other heroes and has his on again off again relationship with Ice. John in the comics can't really capitalize on his animated incarnation because it mined Hal's history, so comic wise you have Mosaic or the one time he **** the bed so hard it blew up a planet. They don't like to deal with his more outspoken early era, so what you have is a guy who doesn't seem to have a lot of joy in his life or work that everyone respects... Maybe Tom King should work on the dude? His minis bring a lot of prestige to underutilized characters and John needs a big win under his belt right now

    I joke, but John's biggest obstacle is that DC is both afraid and unwilling to find a unique niche for him to fill in the GL franchise. lemonpeace suggested making him a Guardian once and I think that may work, but I think we also need to see John start taking real joy in being a GL. Nobody wants to read about how much it sucks having the coolest ring in the universe that lets you do anything. I like John a lot, but I'm done hearing about Xanshi. It needs to end.

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    For what it's worth, T'Challa is the protagonist of his franchise. John isn't, and he shares the power set of literally everyone except Alan. Kind of.

    I joke, but John's biggest obstacle is that DC is both afraid and unwilling to find a unique niche for him to fill in the GL franchise. lemonpeace suggested making him a Guardian once and I think that may work, but I think we also need to see John start taking real joy in being a GL. Nobody wants to read about how much it sucks having the coolest ring in the universe that lets you do anything. I like John a lot, but I'm done hearing about Xanshi. It needs to end.
    Peter Parker shares his franchise with Miles, Gwen, Ben, Eddie, Silkk, Black Cat, Jessica, Miguel, Dr Oct and others. Somehow Marvel has made it work for the past 30 years before Miles showed up. What is this franchise excuse?

    John in the comics can't really capitalize on his animated incarnation because it mined Hal's history, so comic wise you have Mosaic or the one time he **** the bed so hard it blew up a planet. They don't like to deal with his more outspoken early era, so what you have is a guy who doesn't seem to have a lot of joy in his life or work that everyone respects...
    They don't deal with it because New 52 got rid of it. Everyone else got a life.

    Maybe Tom King should work on the dude?
    Like he did with Duke Thomas? Every other sidekick Batman had was right there NEXT to him having the adventure. Not doing one panel cameos or not in the book for a year.
    Or Hotspot? Who got trashed in Sideways and then killed looking like someone from Florida.

    Hand him over to Vita Ayala. Someone who has experience writing a character who did some planet trashing damage in Valiant's Livewire.

  12. #462
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Peter Parker shares his franchise with Miles, Gwen, Ben, Eddie, Silkk, Black Cat, Jessica, Miguel, Dr Oct and others. Somehow Marvel has made it work for the past 30 years before Miles showed up. What is this franchise excuse?



    They don't deal with it because New 52 got rid of it. Everyone else got a life.



    Like he did with Duke Thomas? Every other sidekick Batman had was right there NEXT to him having the adventure. Not doing one panel cameos or not in the book for a year.
    Or Hotspot? Who got trashed in Sideways and then killed looking like someone from Florida.

    Hand him over to Vita Ayala. Someone who has experience writing a character who did some planet trashing damage in Valiant's Livewire.
    I would argue Marvel struggles trying to establish a niche for most those spider people.

    Okay, so they got rid of it. I stopped reading GL (dropped out back around Brightest Day, realizing Johns peaked at Blackest Night and I wanted to go out on a high note) outside Morrison and the Jessica Cruz series and am getting Far Sector, but I've not seen John outside JL. I still don't see them having replaced those stripped elements. My point still stands. I'm still of the mind that lemonpeace has the best pitch for John I've read in years and DC should entertain that direction.

    My comment on Tom King was with respect to his limited series Vision, Omega Men and Mister Miracle which an received critical praise and brought attention to B or less tier properties. John is a soldier trying to unpack his ghosts, something very much in King's wheelhouse. I don't think he's the worst pick to raise John's profile and give him a story all his own.

    Hal is kind of around the same place as John in my heart, but considering that we have GLs doing lots of stuff right now between Morrison's book, Far Sector, JL and JLO they're all kind of exposed relatively equally with Hal/Jo getting to star in a book currently, thus edging the others out a bit.

    John could and has had worse shakes in the past. I don't think Hal is holding him back as much. Hal hasn't stopped Jess from headlining a book for a long time or Jo getting her own maxi. I'm a Wally fan so I understand the frustration of feeling the Silver Age stalwart is holding a favorite back, but I'm not seeing Hal being the blockade. Guy, Simon and Kyle are not exactly doing anything right now that I recall either. Alan is probably in Snyder's JSA plans but John is currently one of the four GLs even getting page time (I'm not counting Alan because he's just a guest for this arc and then back in the toy chest for Grandpa) and in one of the big books at DC with top talent. It could be a lot worse for John. Certainly could be a lot better, but again, I don't see Hal being what holding him back so much as no clear direction for John currently. Again, get lemonpeace on the horn!
    Last edited by Robanker; 11-19-2019 at 12:48 AM.

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Don't think Spawn is as recognizable in the mainstream even with more comics, the 90s movie, and the cartoon. Believe John has the potential to go even farther than Black Panther. But, yes, there is work to be done.
    Both Spawn and Blade are way bigger deals than John Stewart, and have had much bigger impact on pop culture than John Stewart has. Any kid of the 90s knows Spawn (and Blade, for that matter), and knows he was pretty much one of the biggest things around back then. His comics are literally some of the most popular ever, he has much beloved toys, numerous video games, a major feature film, a highly acclaimed cartoon, and so on. The character near symbolizes an Age of comics history. The success of Spawn #300 even shows there is still interest in that character even though he has kind of floundered creatively for a long while. I think John is bigger in the minds of his fans than he actually is. He doesn't hold a candle to Spawn. John Stewart never came close to that level of success. And I don't believe John has the potential to go anywhere near where Spawn has gone, because John is not even the lead character of Green Lantern. You may say Green Lantern doesn't need Hal Jordan, and you may even be right, but that isn't even my argument. The point is that Green Lantern HAS Hal Jordan, and there are many people who want to see Hal Jordan. They are not going to just roll over to accommodate Green Lantern being taken over by John Stewart indefinitely.
    Last edited by Vampire Savior; 11-18-2019 at 11:09 PM.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Peter Parker shares his franchise with Miles, Gwen, Ben, Eddie, Silkk, Black Cat, Jessica, Miguel, Dr Oct and others. Somehow Marvel has made it work for the past 30 years before Miles showed up. What is this franchise excuse?
    That GL Franchise is just not as big, it just can't sustain that many ongoings.
    They tried it during the new 52 where they had a lot of different Lantern Books, and in Rebirth where they had two, but apparently it didn't really worked out and so they are back to one book (and an occasional mini series).

    Spiderman is as a Franchise more comparble to Batman, he him self can sell severeal ongoings of at the same time, and the franchise is strong enough that even some of his spin of characters can sell ongoings (And at least Spiderwoman and Silk were afaik also not particularly successfull).

  15. #465
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    This may be garbage because ive only read johns first appearance and no more but the hook in that story for me reading it out of back issue bins many years later was ... i wonder what his stories and adventures are going to be that are so different from Hal Jordans? In retrospect its probably best they just left it as a one in done story for so long as some sort of social realist study of africa and Caribbean (i dont know about USA) would have been a car crash given what happened in Jamaica and the never ending cycle of madness in africa. But... that was the hook of the original character - different stories, different points of view (imho) and there is still something one can do with that concept

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