Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

[Wandering_Wand]

As it stands today:

John Stewart
Cyborg
Vixen
Black Lightning

Any one of those can certainly crack DC's top 6-7, I think.

[Anthony Shaw]

As it stands today:

John Stewart
Cyborg
Vixen
Black Lightning

Any one of those can certainly crack DC's top 6-7, I think.

Who within the comics industry will put in the work, and try to make this happen?

It is not even surprising how those characters listed have loyal following in outside media.

[king81992]

Who within the comics industry will put in the work, and try to make this happen?

It is not even surprising how those characters listed have loyal following in outside media.

A writer who hasn't been hired yet.

[Electricmastro]

DC's most popular black superheroes in comics at this point seem to be:

Cyborg

John Stewart

Black Lightning

Steel

Mr. Terrific

Vixen

Jason Rusch

Natasha Irons

Bumblebee

Bronze Tiger

I'll leave it to others to decide if Connor Hawke counts as black or not.

[lemonpeace]

DC's most popular black superheroes in comics at this point seem to be:

Cyborg

John Stewart

Black Lightning

Steel

Mr. Terrific

Vixen

Jason Rusch

Natasha Irons

Bumblebee

Bronze Tiger

I'll leave it to others to decide if Connor Hawke counts as black or not.

I gotta disagree with you on some of these, white some of them are arguably still popular others just aren't the most popular, especially compared to other newer characters who aren't on this list. While the Steels and Bumblebee still linger in the public consciousness, Bronze Tiger hasn't had a real moment in a very long time and Jason Rusch is all but forgotten nowadays. I would say Jackson Hyde/Kaldur'ahm and Wallace West are easily two of the most popular black characters DC has at the moment, the Batwings are about as popular if not more so than Bronze Tiger, and both he and Duke Thomas are probably more popular right now than Jason Rusch. Connor Hawke is known more as an Asian/white hero than a black hero in the sense that if they were to cast him in a movie he'd likely be that mix as opposed to any type of black

[Electricmastro]

I gotta disagree with you on some of these, white some of them are arguably still popular others just aren't the most popular, especially compared to other newer characters who aren't on this list. While the Steels and Bumblebee still linger in the public consciousness, Bronze Tiger hasn't had a real moment in a very long time and Jason Rusch is all but forgotten nowadays. I would say Jackson Hyde/Kaldur'ahm and Wallace West are easily two of the most popular black characters DC has at the moment, the Batwings are about as popular if not more so than Bronze Tiger, and both he and Duke Thomas are probably more popular right now than Jason Rusch. Connor Hawke is known more as an Asian/white hero than a black hero in the sense that if they were to cast him in a movie he'd likely be that mix as opposed to any type of black

Ah right. Thanks:

Cyborg

John Stewart

Black Lightning

Steel

Mr. Terrific

Vixen

Natasha Irons

Bumblebee

Wallace West

Duke Thomas

Batwing

Aqualad

[Agent Z]

Why id Jefferson given the alternate code name of Vulcan in the poll?

[iron chimp]

You're completely avoiding what I was saying. Your examples (Watchmen, Swamp Thing, other popular books from decades ago when things were different) don't hold water man.

And Image isn't DC; different audiences, different goals, expectations, and I wouldn't point to Image as a pinnacle of sales success either. They've got their winners of course (and I love a lot of their books) but this is apples and oranges, and the apples don't sell half as well in the first place.

And if fans didn't keep buying it, publishers wouldn't be flogging the corpses of popular IP's that came out decades ago. Business is a two-way street; you can't meet a demand that doesn't exist, nor create a supply your consumers won't demand.

As for New Age, I believe you're very much wrong. Yes, those were Marvel riffs. Your point? DC and Marvel steal from each other, and always have. Yes, we all knew the initiative was doomed to fail. Why do we know this? Because fans don't support new stuff 99.9% of the time. Fans were screaming and bitching about these books before they launched, "Oh, why are these big names making new characters when B'Wanna Beast isn't showing up anywhere! He's such a good character and everyone loves him!" But if this had been a new line with the same talent about the big names? Those books would've sold great, even though their quality would've been exactly the same. And it would've have mattered if the artists left after a few issues.

They are still popular now - thats why they are always in print. People still buy them in numbers today. Why? Because the quality is extremely high.

Image is exactly DC. Its vertigo. Dc readers supported ceeator led projects for 2 decades. Dcs break out hits werent in the pages of superman or what have you - they were fables, dmz, hitman, the filth, invisibles , watchmen, preacher, sandman, etc. Those were the books shifting big numbers in the bookshops and trades. Thats the level you need to be at to break a book to a mass audience.

Dc readers have supported a LOT of crazy **** over the years.

Expecting them to support "its hulk... but at dc" and when it fails say oh well thats DC readers for you... Its a nothing idea - thats why - and DC readers are used to better than that. Even in the main line those teams wouldnt have sold much - didio, venditti, orlando, tynion, lemire havent had a hit between them in god knows how many tries.

If you cant deliver at the quality Dc readers are used to, dont then blame the readers.

Its a piece of cake to break a black character at DC but tye level has to be at sandnan, dnz, fables, animal man, doom patrol, hitman, preacher etc. If its not at that standard the book is doing nothing.

[Agent Z]

They are still popular now - thats why they are always in print. People still buy them in numbers today. Why? Because the quality is extremely high.

Image is exactly DC. Its vertigo. Dc readers supported ceeator led projects for 2 decades. Dcs break out hits werent in the pages of superman or what have you - they were fables, dmz, hitman, the filth, invisibles , watchmen, preacher, sandman, etc. Those were the books shifting big numbers in the bookshops and trades. Thats the level you need to be at to break a book to a mass audience.

Dc readers have supported a LOT of crazy **** over the years.

Expecting them to support "its hulk... but at dc" and when it fails say oh well thats DC readers for you... Its a nothing idea - thats why - and DC readers are used to better than that. Even in the main line those teams wouldnt have sold much - didio, venditti, orlando, tynion, lemire havent had a hit between them in god knows how many tries.

If you cant deliver at the quality Dc readers are used to, dont then blame the readers.

Its a piece of cake to break a black character at DC but tye level has to be at sandnan, dnz, fables, animal man, doom patrol, hitman, preacher etc. If its not at that standard the book is doing nothing.

In defense of New Age of Heroes, most of them actually weren't Marvel copycats but it was the Marvel copycats that DC marketed the most. I do think it is telling that the one that lasted the longest (the Terrifics) was using established characters whose similarities to Marvel characters was pretty superficial at best and Silencer (again not a Marvel ripoff) was the most interesting as a concept.

[DragonPiece]

Depending on how hard DC pushes luke fox next year, he could be up there soon.

[Vampire Savior]

Since this is kind of being talked about...I've actually sort of been pondering the idea that new readers are never going to get into DC and Marvel, at least not at a rate that actually matters. They are never going to go to the comics shops. They're never going to bother with these events, or other such nonsense. There will be/are new and different comics readers, but most people who follow DC and Marvel probably won't hear about them most of the time, because they'll be involved in something totally different that's not a part of this particular sphere at all, like reading crowdfunded comics, Webtoon (there are some extremely popular comics over there), or stuff like that. You might hear about them when comics from those areas become massive sensations here and there, but sometimes not even then. I think that is/is going to be a totally separate audience with little bleed over, for the most part.

As for New Age Heroes, I think the truth is somewhere in middle. The ideas mostly stunk. If you're going to create something new, it HAS to be good to gain traction. Furthermore, DC fans probably don't REALLY want new stuff. The people who do will be going through other channels to get what they want, and I think that will only grow.

[Ascended]

They are still popular now

But that has nothing to do with what you were saying. You talked about how they were new characters who got big. And they did. Decades ago. New characters showing up *today* struggle a lot more. The point of contention here is the difference in the market since the 80's, and you're not addressing that.

Image is exactly DC. Its vertigo.

The differences between mainline DC and Vertigo are many, and while many of Vertigo's classic titles are still trade sellers today, look at how the modern Vertigo imprint is doing. Again, you're using examples from decades ago, but the changes to the market make these comparisons moot.

Expecting them to support "its hulk... but at dc" and when it fails say oh well thats DC readers for you... Its a nothing idea - thats why - and DC readers are used to better than that.

The quality of New Age was easily on par with most of DC's titles, and above a whole lot of them. But New Age still sold poorly. So no, it's not the quality that made a difference there, otherwise most of those books would still be going. And saying that the line failed because it was riffing Marvel doesn't stand up either when both companies have been very successful when stealing from each other, from Marvel's early days right up to the modern era.

If you cant deliver at the quality Dc readers are used to, dont then blame the readers.

The quality *was* there. So was the marketing and high profile push. So yeah, I'm blaming the readers.

Its a piece of cake to break a black character at DC but tye level has to be at sandnan, dnz, fables, animal man, doom patrol, hitman, preacher etc. If its not at that standard the book is doing nothing.

And what DC books right now are on the same level as Gaiman's Sandman? Or Ennis' Preacher? These are some of the most well crafted titles the company has ever made, so what exactly is DC pushing right now that equals them? If your argument is that "new/PoC characters have to be on the level as DC's greatest and most celebrated hits to be viable" then I'm pretty sure you're just proving my point, since a lot of other books can get away with much, much lower quality and still do fine.

[Shockingjustice]

I gotta disagree with you on some of these, white some of them are arguably still popular others just aren't the most popular, especially compared to other newer characters who aren't on this list. While the Steels and Bumblebee still linger in the public consciousness, Bronze Tiger hasn't had a real moment in a very long time and Jason Rusch is all but forgotten nowadays. I would say Jackson Hyde/Kaldur'ahm and Wallace West are easily two of the most popular black characters DC has at the moment, the Batwings are about as popular if not more so than Bronze Tiger, and both he and Duke Thomas are probably more popular right now than Jason Rusch. Connor Hawke is known more as an Asian/white hero than a black hero in the sense that if they were to cast him in a movie he'd likely be that mix as opposed to any type of black

Why do you keep saying Wallace West is the most popular black character? He really hasn't played a role in anything but the comics and small parts in The Flash.

[Wandering_Wand]

Who within the comics industry will put in the work, and try to make this happen?
It is not even surprising how those characters listed have loyal following in outside media.

I think the best answer is below. I will say, they have to have compelling enough stories to carry sales. But, I'm not arguing one way or another if that's been done yet, or not.
But to even get to the point that king81 says below, DC's leadership needs to make a proactive push to get these characters jumpstarted.

A writer who hasn't been hired yet.

Depending on how hard DC pushes luke fox next year, he could be up there soon.

I can see this, but I would also caution because Duke Thomas didn't quite do what I thought he would. Then again, IIRC, Duke wasn't really thrusted as he could have been. It was a half hearted attempt.

[Vampire Savior]

Luke Fox cannot reach trinity status unless he becomes more popular than Bruce Wayne, becomes the center of his own new Batman mythology, and becomes Batman for good. Otherwise, he's just some guy wearing Bruce Wayne's clothes temporarily.