Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

[Vordan]

while I 100% agree with you, with the right creative team they could rework J'onn's and the Martian socio-political landscape to be better representative to the black experience. it'll never be a substitute for legitimate black representation but I like whenever aliens come and they aren't just cosmic white people. Icon was able to make an alien taking the form of a black person legitimate, I think they could do the same with Martian Manhunter in the right hands

Icon was stuck as a black man though right? He couldn’t change forms? That’s a different case. Making J’onn the black rep, while well intentioned falls short because he can change to other races if he needs to. He’s been white in the past and if racists are coming after him, there’s no real reason he wouldn’t just change to pass if he had to. Now you could have it so that J’onn can only shape change in his Martian form and that he can only have one human form at a time, that form being a black man. Then that could work although it would probably be a little convoluted. But if J’onn can only pass as human in the form of a black man, that could provide some legitimacy to him standing in for black people, just like how Clark isn’t technically “white” but for all intents and purposes is white passing.

[Agent Z]

while I 100% agree with you, with the right creative team they could rework J'onn's and the Martian socio-political landscape to be better representative to the black experience. it'll never be a substitute for legitimate black representation but I like whenever aliens come and they aren't just cosmic white people. Icon was able to make an alien taking the form of a black person legitimate, I think they could do the same with Martian Manhunter in the right hands

I think Icon is the better example of an alien representing the black experience but it did help that appeared as a black man and couldn't appear as anything else.

edited: What Vordan said.

[Iconic]

Eye roll every time it’s mentioned that Vic works best with teen titans. As if because he started on a team that he could never be more than that. Like he’s only fit for being a Bat-family’s right-hand man. A “glass ceiling” so to speak. Nonsense.

Wishfulfilment is the largest factor for many. The same way any black person would love to see someone who looks like them in a field/area that’s primarily kept them out, it’s the same with the Justice League. Vic was chosen at the time because the core league is built off of original characters. There’s not even a handful of black characters that fit that bill. Cyborg is chosen. Fine.

Now, build him up.

Sadly they put in the least they could do in JL. Someone comes along with an out of the box, forward thinking pitch to Advance The Concept. Make Cyborg something we would want to be. DC scrapped it in favor of more of the same. How much fun is it to follow a character that is always down? Always having to question his humanity? Is limited in story potential because of being trapped in a clunky metal body? No life outside the heroics?

People want to enjoy a book. A solo character that has no joy isn’t a book that anyone is going to support. No private life. No love interests. Could you blame anyone for not supporting such a bummer of a book?

Bring back the wishfulfilment. Make him look appealing.

[The Darknight Detective]

The thing was marvel's fan favourite during 60s and 70s

Heh. He was very popular when I was a kid and was the one from the FF we all wanted to be first.

[SecretWarrior]

The thing was marvel's fan favourite during 60s and 70s

Yeah, were kids choosing to dress up as the Thing instead of Spider-man? Did the Thing have enough popularity to carry a solo book like Wolverine?

[Agent Z]

Yeah, were kids choosing to dress up as the Thing instead of Spider-man? Did the Thing have enough popularity to carry a solo book like Wolverine?

Yes he did.

[lemonpeace]

Icon was stuck as a black man though right? He couldn’t change forms? That’s a different case. Making J’onn the black rep, while well intentioned falls short because he can change to other races if he needs to. He’s been white in the past and if racists are coming after him, there’s no real reason he wouldn’t just change to pass if he had to. Now you could have it so that J’onn can only shape change in his Martian form and that he can only have one human form at a time, that form being a black man. Then that could work although it would probably be a little convoluted. But if J’onn can only pass as human in the form of a black man, that could provide some legitimacy to him standing in for black people, just like how Clark isn’t technically “white” but for all intents and purposes is white passing.

sure, it would require some reworking for the how and why, and I agree MM as a shapeshifter prevents him from ever being wholly legitimate figure for representation in the same sense of Icon, but I do think he can have merit as a black (more accurately black-passing) alien character. like I wouldn't start putting him as one of DC's premier black heroes but committing to putting his story through a more melanated lens wouldn't be so bad.

[SecretWarrior]

Yes he did.

Dude, that lasted 36 issues in the early 80s, which comics had much higher readership. Not what I call popular. Definitely not on the level of Spider-Man or Wolverine.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-thing/4050-3245/

[The Darknight Detective]

Yes he did.

He was also the star of this one, too:

[The Darknight Detective]

Dude, that lasted 36 issues in the early 80s, which comics had much higher readership. Not what I call popular. Definitely not on the level of Spider-Man or Wolverine.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-thing/4050-3245/

No, he wasn't, but in relation to Ben and Logan, he was closer to those two than anybody on this thread compared to the Trinity, IMO.

[SecretWarrior]

No, he wasn't, but in relation to Ben and Logan, he was closer to those two than anybody on this thread compared to the Trinity, IMO.

In your opinion, but I'm betting there were other solo Marvel characters closer to Spider-Man and Wolverine sales at the time. Yes, wish fulfillment is actually an important part in creating a sustainable title. Escapism, like power fantasies, will always be integral to telling mainstream superhero stories.

[SecretWarrior]

He was also the star of this one, too:

It's not a solo book if you're sharing the actual title on the book. Batman and Robin, Spider-Man Team Up, The Brave and the Bold, and this aren't solo books. Ben can create a fun dynamic, which is what this book capitalized on, but no one wants to be Ben. That's one of the biggest reasons he doesn't hold a solo. He was created for teams and team ups, like Cyborg. Unlike Wolverine, there's not enough appeal there to really go off on his own.

[The Darknight Detective]

In your opinion, but I'm betting there were other solo Marvel characters closer to Spider-Man and Wolverine sales at the time. Yes, wish fulfillment is actually an important part in creating a sustainable title. Escapism, like power fantasies, will always be integral to telling mainstream superhero stories.

In your opinion (ahem!), at any rate. In all seriousness, the Thing was a big deal at one time. The vagaries of time...

[The Darknight Detective]

It's not a solo book if you're sharing the actual title on the book. Batman and Robin, Spider-Man Team Up, The Brave and the Bold, and this aren't solo books. Ben can create a fun dynamic, which is what this book capitalized on, but no one wants to be Ben. That's one of the biggest reasons he doesn't hold a solo. He was created for teams and team ups, like Cyborg. Unlike Wolverine, there's not enough appeal there to really go off on his own.

I didn't say it was a solo. I clearly stated he was the star of it, which is uncontestably true. We also read it for the same reasons we bought Brave and the Bold and DC Comic's Present - for the guy headlining it.

[iron chimp]

In your opinion (ahem!), at any rate. In all seriousness, the Thing awas a big deal at one time. The vagaries of time...

Yes claremonts x-men juggernaut swept all before it but people forget that until then The Thing was a top tier much loved character - the anchor that made Ff so popular and a Thing Hulk face off was always a huge draw.

Im.pretty sure he used to be a regular banner character in that postage stamp thing across all marvels books at one time and a regular winner of marvel polls on readers fav character.

A thing renaissance would make the world a better place.