View Poll Results: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

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  • Green Lantern (John Stewart)

    41 28.28%
  • Vixen (Mari McCabe)

    18 12.41%
  • Cyborg (Victor Stone)

    12 8.28%
  • Black Lightning/Vulcan (Jefferson Pierce)

    24 16.55%
  • Static (Virgil Hawkins)

    7 4.83%
  • Naomi (Naomi McDuffie)

    8 5.52%
  • Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt)

    6 4.14%
  • Steel (John Henry Irons)

    3 2.07%
  • Bumblebee (Karen Beecher)

    0 0%
  • Icon (Augustus Freeman IV)

    1 0.69%
  • Rocket (Raquel Ervin)

    0 0%
  • Amazing-Man (Any Version)

    1 0.69%
  • Aqualad (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde)

    1 0.69%
  • Other (Specify Below)

    3 2.07%
  • None

    20 13.79%
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  1. #16
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    Cyborg's disfigurement ruins the character's potential as a black paragon IMO. No wish fulfimment.

    Black Lightning's codename does the same for that character. Not to mention his powers don't bring anything new to the table. A black panther is an actual animal. Black lightning is just about race.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 10-13-2019 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #17
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Green Lantern and Black Lightning. They've been the most consistently used Black characters in recent years. Vixen could achieve that status but she needs to be used more often.

    Also they have to be given the opportunity to save the day in major events. At the end of the day, they need to be seen as heroes who others look up to and get inspiration from. That has not happened enough although John has had more success in that area , than BL and Vixen.

  3. #18
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    Cyborg will never be it because that would make Bayman irrelevant for story purposes, even though he's the Company's highest seller. Same could be said of Steel and Mr. Terrific.

  4. #19
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    The Milestone characters are in legal limbo.

    GL, Vixen, Naomi, and Bumblebee are the only ones really in the running IMO. And GL is currently in the best position to hold a book. For her mythology and recognizability, Vixen comes second closest. She'd probsbly have to continue to be pushed more in outside media, but Shuri held onto Black Panther for a while, so...

    Also, GL and Flash are both characters that are currently legacies, so that's pretty irrelevant. Just look at current Ant-Man and current Captain Marvel.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 10-13-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Cyborg's disfigurement ruins the character's potential as a black paragon IMO. No wish fulfimment.

    Black Lightning's codename does the same for that character. Not to mention his powers don't bring anything new to the table. A black panther is an actual animal. Black lightning is just about race.
    I think taken in a vacuum Cyborg is fine. His handicap serves as an inspiration for people with disabilities, which is awesome. I've seen a number of people who've lost limbs talk about how much they love Vic because he reps for them. And his handicap is much like Daredevil's; Matt Murdock is blind but he got a lot more out of the deal. Likewise, Vic has lost body parts but gained crazy superpowers. I feel like if Batman can be wish fulfillment despite losing his parents, Vic can be wish fulfillment despite being in an accident. With the right direction and a solid visual update I don't think Vic's origin puts him at a real disadvantage. Overcoming trauma is inspiring whether you're Vic Stone or Bruce Wayne, I think.

    But when comparing him to the Trinity and the other big name heroes who are all perfect white people? It is not great optics at all.

    Same goes for Jeff; the name is......problematic, but can easily be given a positive spin. It's not all that damning, really, more annoying than anything. But it looks bad when his name is the only one calling attention to his race.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think taken in a vacuum Cyborg is fine. His handicap serves as an inspiration for people with disabilities, which is awesome. I've seen a number of people who've lost limbs talk about how much they love Vic because he reps for them. And his handicap is much like Daredevil's; Matt Murdock is blind but he got a lot more out of the deal. Likewise, Vic has lost body parts but gained crazy superpowers. I feel like if Batman can be wish fulfillment despite losing his parents, Vic can be wish fulfillment despite being in an accident. With the right direction and a solid visual update I don't think Vic's origin puts him at a real disadvantage. Overcoming trauma is inspiring whether you're Vic Stone or Bruce Wayne, I think.

    But when comparing him to the Trinity and the other big name heroes who are all perfect white people? It is not great optics at all.

    Same goes for Jeff; the name is......problematic, but can easily be given a positive spin. It's not all that damning, really, more annoying than anything. But it looks bad when his name is the only one calling attention to his race.
    Yeah, Cyborg might be a paragon for the handicapped, but the idea of the only prominent PoC on the JL being mutilated will always be disgusting. He fits more on a team like the Doom Patrol.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Luke Fox apparently

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think taken in a vacuum Cyborg is fine. His handicap serves as an inspiration for people with disabilities, which is awesome. I've seen a number of people who've lost limbs talk about how much they love Vic because he reps for them. And his handicap is much like Daredevil's; Matt Murdock is blind but he got a lot more out of the deal. Likewise, Vic has lost body parts but gained crazy superpowers. I feel like if Batman can be wish fulfillment despite losing his parents, Vic can be wish fulfillment despite being in an accident. With the right direction and a solid visual update I don't think Vic's origin puts him at a real disadvantage. Overcoming trauma is inspiring whether you're Vic Stone or Bruce Wayne, I think.

    But when comparing him to the Trinity and the other big name heroes who are all perfect white people? It is not great optics at all.

    Same goes for Jeff; the name is......problematic, but can easily be given a positive spin. It's not all that damning, really, more annoying than anything. But it looks bad when his name is the only one calling attention to his race.
    They should have changed Jefferson's name to The Bolt a long time ago. Sounds much more prominent than Black Lightning to me.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    They should have changed Jefferson's name to The Bolt a long time ago. Sounds much more prominent than Black Lightning to me.
    So, are we ripping off Chevy or Usain? But hey, if a burger chain was good enough...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    So, are we ripping off Chevy or Usain? But hey, if a burger chain was good enough...
    I'd go with Usain.

  11. #26
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    For anyone of colour, gender, or sexual orientation to break into the Holy Trinity status, that person IMO should have a top notch Rogues Gallery. Seems like both companies have stopped trying to create memorable villains.

  12. #27
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    For anyone of colour, gender, or sexual orientation to break into the Holy Trinity status, that person IMO should have a top notch Rogues Gallery. Seems like both companies have stopped trying to create memorable villains.
    Well, when they can just re-use the same half-dozen over and over and over again...

    Actually, I do wonder when the last really good villains were developed? Re-working existing ones has happened quite a bit, but all new ones? Harley, but they're anti-heroing her. Have done same with Deathstroke at times. They like doing that. But also, I think with newer heroes, or even generally modern story-telling, new villains are often created for a specific arc. And then they've served their purpose - there's little they can do to top that arc. Or they're meant to be sympathetic, but for many the sympathy wears off after they do enough bad things. I feel that way about Doomsday, Bane, and the version of Mr. Freeze driven by Nora. Whereas in the old days they were created for cool powers or colorful appearances or whatever, and with the more generic storypurpose of just being a villain.

    Yeah, I'm kinda sick of the Joker, and would like to see some focus on non-Luthor, non-Krypton-based villains for Superman.

    Also, as the audience has gotten older, and perhaps more set in our ways, I wonder if we've gotten more likely to say we want to see our favorites, not new nobodies. Are you more likely to get an issue if it has a villain you already know on the cover or one you don't know? And, of course, the most common time for villains to be introduced is when new heroes are introduced, and we don't seem to have as many of them with their own stories as we once did. I mean, we used to get several heroes/stories in 'Tec or Action Comics or whatnot. Going to fewer stories in more issues no doubt makes a difference, too. 4 stories a month could mean 48 stories a year for Superman with 18 villains. Now it's maybe 2 or 3 stories a year and it makes sense to use known villains. Of course, that didn't stop Captain Marvel from fighting Sivana a lot in the old days. Over and over and over again.

    edit: Mr. Freeze & Doctor Fries. Sorry.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-13-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Hawkgirl_70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasir12 View Post
    Luke Fox apparently
    MEH!!!! That’s just wrong!

    I voted for John Stewart because I like him and Hal Jordan both as Lanterns.
    Also, I would like for John Diggle of Arrow to be spun off into a Green Lantern CW Series.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Well, when they can just re-use the same half-dozen over and over and over again...

    Actually, I do wonder when the last really good villains were developed? Re-working existing ones has happened quite a bit, but all new ones? Harley, but they're anti-heroing her. Have done same with Deathstroke at times. They like doing that. But also, I think with newer heroes, or even generally modern story-telling, new villains are often created for a specific arc. And then they've served their purpose - there's little they can do to top that arc. Or they're meant to be sympathetic, but for many the sympathy wears off after they do enough bad things. I feel that way about Doomsday, Bane, and the version of Doctor Freeze driven by Nora. Whereas in the old days they were created for cool powers or colorful appearances or whatever, and with the more generic storypurpose of just being a villain.

    Yeah, I'm kinda sick of the Joker, and would like to see some focus on non-Luthor, non-Krypton-based villains for Superman.

    Also, as the audience has gotten older, and perhaps more set in our ways, I wonder if we've gotten more likely to say we want to see our favorites, not new nobodies. Are you more likely to get an issue if it has a villain you already know on the cover or one you don't know? And, of course, the most common time for villains to be introduced is when new heroes are introduced, and we don't seem to have as many of them with their own stories as we once did. I mean, we used to get several heroes/stories in 'Tec or Action Comics or whatnot. Going to fewer stories in more issues no doubt makes a difference, too. 4 stories a month could mean 48 stories a year for Superman with 18 villains. Now it's maybe 2 or 3 stories a year and it makes sense to use known villains. Of course, that didn't stop Captain Marvel from fighting Sivana a lot in the old days. Over and over and over again.
    The anti-heroing of characters like Harley, Captain Cold, and Slade has to do with them being able to play the edgy wish-fulfillment role in ways that characters like the Ventriloquist and Riddler can't.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Yeah, Cyborg might be a paragon for the handicapped, but the idea of the only prominent PoC on the JL being mutilated will always be disgusting. He fits more on a team like the Doom Patrol.
    I think itís a fine line to walk with Cyborg because as he was originally depicted, heís more clearly a representative of the handicapped community than he is POC. Yet heís being pushed in large part because of his racial representation. So how you tell stories that both highlight the fact that heís disabled yet remain a power fantasy that entice black readers is gonna come down to the quality of the writer. Ideally these two aspects of his identity shouldnít be in competition but itís kinda something you have to consider if you want to push him as the premier black character.

    Outside of that, I think Cyborg is a strong option if DC was willing to make the changes necessary to his character to make him a viable solo character. But I doubt that DC is willing to stop with the man vs machine stories and daddy issues so Iím gonna go ahead and say Cyborg wonít be Trinity status They might as well cut their losses and make him leader of the Titans.

    Johnís problem is that heíll never be the undisputed leader of the GL franchise to the same extent that Bruce, Diana, and Clark lead their own IPs. Maybe for casuals he might be trinity status if he headlined a movie but for comic readers I donít think think heíll ever replace Hal. In terms of rogues, concepts, locales, etc. the key aspects of the GL mythos were either built around Hal or used most prominently in his stories. Outside of not publishing him I donít think John can be ďtheĒ GL.

    Black Lightning is probably my favorite option but for him it really comes down to concept, execution, and consistency of publication. The show has contributed good ideas such as Freeland, but DC is gonna have to commit to pushing him as a universal hero with a diverse rogues gallery so he can have a street-level mythos on par with Green Arrow. Vixen has similar growth potential because she also has her own entirely original mythos that just needs some development. The fact she has a mystic angle and could also be an interesting spy character also help. Only issue is I could see her being called ďknock-off Black PantherĒ because of the superficial similarities.

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