View Poll Results: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

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  • Green Lantern (John Stewart)

    41 28.28%
  • Vixen (Mari McCabe)

    18 12.41%
  • Cyborg (Victor Stone)

    12 8.28%
  • Black Lightning/Vulcan (Jefferson Pierce)

    24 16.55%
  • Static (Virgil Hawkins)

    7 4.83%
  • Naomi (Naomi McDuffie)

    8 5.52%
  • Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt)

    6 4.14%
  • Steel (John Henry Irons)

    3 2.07%
  • Bumblebee (Karen Beecher)

    0 0%
  • Icon (Augustus Freeman IV)

    1 0.69%
  • Rocket (Raquel Ervin)

    0 0%
  • Amazing-Man (Any Version)

    1 0.69%
  • Aqualad (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde)

    1 0.69%
  • Other (Specify Below)

    3 2.07%
  • None

    20 13.79%
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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    This may be garbage because ive only read johns first appearance and no more but the hook in that story for me reading it out of back issue bins many years later was ... i wonder what his stories and adventures are going to be that are so different from Hal Jordans? In retrospect its probably best they just left it as a one in done story for so long as some sort of social realist study of africa and Caribbean (i dont know about USA) would have been a car crash given what happened in Jamaica and the never ending cycle of madness in africa. But... that was the hook of the original character - different stories, different points of view (imho) and there is still something one can do with that concept
    Creatively, I think the Green Lantern franchise can only sustain two Green Lantern books: (1) a true solo, aka Green Lantern; and (2) a small team, aka GLC--which really needs compelling alien characters with their own development to be interesting. The anti-hero approach could work for other Corps, like it did for Red Lanterns, which didn't have very good art and could've gone further in the anti-hero direction. So maybe the franchise could actually carry three books...

    A Sinestro Corps book could be similarly handled to Red Lanterns, but using fear to impose order seems like it would get old quickly, and outside of Sinestro who works better as a villain-- I don't think people are interested in the Sinestro Corps characters as leads. Plus, folks seemed tired of the rainbow corps idea in general. I can't see Sinestro or any other villain carrying more than a mini. DC has tried creating books around powered up Lanterns, like New Guardians, and the concept isn't different enough from GL or GLC to attract a notable readership.

    Based on that, I don't think the franchise could handle more than four human leads: one for GL; two for GLC at most (if written as a mentor and mentee book); and one for RL/anti-hero group. That would be the absolute max, with 2-3 being more realistic. I'd put John in GL, Jessica and a mentor in GLC, and Guy in RL. The others should be retired, but I could also see DC choosing to use them in non-GL books like JL Oddyssey (not set up to involve 2814 or Oa in any way) or Young Justice (too young to actually be a Corps member). Sure it's not a Batman-level franchise, but I think there are usually only ever 4 Superman books going, and it's still at or more than the WW, Flash, and Aquaman franchises. Whoever's in JL should carry GL. Doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't bring readers of one book to the other. Besides exposure and a shakeup, I think John makes sense because we know he's a Corpsman by design. He served in the military; is well educated and pensive but tough and outspoken; and cultured and socially conscious. It would be interesting to see him outside of the team context and get the personal development he needs.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 11-19-2019 at 05:45 PM.

  2. #467
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    This may be garbage because ive only read johns first appearance and no more but the hook in that story for me reading it out of back issue bins many years later was ... i wonder what his stories and adventures are going to be that are so different from Hal Jordans?
    Since John has been turned into a blank slate-it's up to the writer to make that difference.

    If it was me and I see DC doesn't want John around-I would grant them that wish.
    Have Earth put together an explorer colony together and have John lead it. The goal is settle on a new planet.
    Now you have Green Lantern Mosaic 2.0. If I want that planet to have a Justice League-I can.

    In retrospect its probably best they just left it as a one in done story for so long as some sort of social realist study of africa and Caribbean (i dont know about USA) would have been a car crash given what happened in Jamaica and the never ending cycle of madness in africa. But... that was the hook of the original character - different stories, different points of view (imho) and there is still something one can do with that concept
    I would avoid this in floppy form but an OGN would be fine. I just don't want to deal with the backlash (lead by those who never read).
    I would not want to see John in the SJW story of the month.

  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Sure it's not a Batman-level franchise, but I think there are usually only ever 4 Superman books going,
    The Superman Franchise had in recent years at best 3 long running ongoings "Superman", "Action Comics" and "Supergirl".
    And "Supergirl" often struggled when it came to sales.

    The other "Super"-Books usually don't last very long.

  4. #469
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    I can't help but think there is something hypocritical about getting defensive when people simply say they're open to the idea of exploring John Stewart as a Darkstar--since being yet another Green Lantern hasn't really been getting him anywhere--and then wanting to shunt a character like Guy Gardner off to the Red Lanterns.

    That brings up another point. John Stewart's problem isn't just that Hal Jordan is the main character of GL (although that is his main problem, because he can't reach trinity status without leading a franchise, and he can't lead a franchise while being something of a supporting character in Hal Jordan's franchise). It's also all those other Green Lanterns he has to compete with for panel time and focus. For example, there is a Green Lantern maxi-series going on that could have starred John, but it's starring some other character instead, while John is just getting minimal spotlight in a team book. Now, I'm not saying I have a problem with that, but it highlights an issue that John Stewart faces. People sometimes want to celebrate how many extraneous Green Lanterns there are, acting like there's room for everyone, but they're turning a blind eye to the negative effects it causes. Realistically, DC can't publish 90 ongoing GL books to highlight all these characters...and even if it did, fans would still fight with each other about perceived slights and favoritism.

  5. #470
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    Honestly I don't get why they keep introducing more Human Lanterns.

    With new one from Far Sector we are now up to 7 human members of the Green Lantern Core.
    And on top of that you have Allan Scott, Jade (if they bring her back) ,Teen Lantern and potentially that Kid Lantern from the Zoom imprint.

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I can't help but think there is something hypocritical about getting defensive when people simply say they're open to the idea of exploring John Stewart as a Darkstar--since being yet another Green Lantern hasn't really been getting him anywhere--and then wanting to shunt a character like Guy Gardner off to the Red Lanterns.

    That brings up another point. John Stewart's problem isn't just that Hal Jordan is the main character of GL (although that is his main problem, because he can't reach trinity status without leading a franchise, and he can't lead a franchise while being something of a supporting character in Hal Jordan's franchise). It's also all those other Green Lanterns he has to compete with for panel time and focus. For example, there is a Green Lantern maxi-series going on that could have starred John, but it's starring some other character instead, while John is just getting minimal spotlight in a team book. Now, I'm not saying I have a problem with that, but it highlights an issue that John Stewart faces. People sometimes want to celebrate how many extraneous Green Lanterns there are, acting like there's room for everyone, but they're turning a blind eye to the negative effects it causes. Realistically, DC can't publish 90 ongoing GL books to highlight all these characters...and even if it did, fans would still fight with each other about perceived slights and favoritism.
    Not hypocritical since RL will never be Trinity-level, only a spinoff, doesn't have the same effect as calling a black character "Darkstar," and doesn't involve recontextualizing John into an anti-hero. If the franchise's anti hero book is darkstars, starring Guy, the only difference from my suggestion is the Darkstsrs have a generic powerset that doesn't link them as clearly to GLs as the RL powerset. DC doesn't need to do either book though. The point is I can only ever see the GL franchise handling 3 books from a creative perspective, and based on that framework, where does John fit so that his stories aren't the same as another ongoing GL title. GL has a lot of character designed to be centrsl leads who aren't leading anything because the franchise is crowded due to the creative limits of the franchise (only 3 types of GL ongoing books). You can't take a heroic lead with an established morality and turn that character into an anti-hero without ticking off fans. Like you can't turn Wally West into a murderer just to make his book different creatively for example. If the franchise can't handle 7, 8, 9 humans, then the extraneous characters should be retired. DC did it with their Batgirls instead of having 3 operate simultaneously. No need to kill the character off. Send e'em off to the far reaches of space to be heard from rarely or give 'em a happy ending and send 'em on their way, like all the extended Flash family characters who have disappeared over the years.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 11-20-2019 at 05:21 AM.

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    The point is I can only ever see the GL franchise handling 3 books from a creative perspective, and based on that framework, where does John fit so that his stories aren't the same as another ongoing GL title.
    I think I understand what you're saying. Not that I'm arguing for more Green Lanterns or more Green Lantern books, but I believe your outlook is too formulaic and rigid. You can have two solo series with heroic leads that aren't at all similar creatively. For example, in the early 1990s Gerard Jones wrote both Green Lantern and Green Lantern: Mosaic. Aside from both starring guys who used Power Rings, they were nothing alike and came from the exact same writer. They were way different artistically, thematically, and tonally, and did not cover similar ground where plots are concerned. Furthermore, for what it's worth, one starred a black guy and one starred a white guy, so based on that alone some people who otherwise might not be interested in one might be interested in another.

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I think I understand what you're saying. Not that I'm arguing for more Green Lanterns or more Green Lantern books, but I believe your outlook is too formulaic and rigid. You can have two solo series with heroic leads that aren't at all similar creatively. For example, in the early 1990s Gerard Jones wrote both Green Lantern and Green Lantern: Mosaic. Aside from both starring guys who used Power Rings, they were nothing alike and came from the exact same writer. They were way different artistically, thematically, and tonally, and did not cover similar ground where plots are concerned. Furthermore, for what it's worth, one starred a black guy and one starred a white guy, so based on that alone some people who otherwise might not be interested in one might be interested in another.
    I don't think a character's race or gender are a big enough differentiator alone to get readers interested. Unlike the batman franchise, I also don't think personality and a location change is enough. As interesting as Mosaic was, as a comic, I don't think the premise can go on indefinitely. It's an imprint-style idea that would work best with a creative novelist like Neil Gaiman who would write entries when he had compelling stories to tell.

  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    I don't think a character's race or gender are a big enough differentiator alone to get readers interested. Unlike the batman franchise, I also don't think personality and a location change is enough. As interesting as Mosaic was, as a comic, I don't think the premise can go on indefinitely. It's an imprint-style idea that would work best with a creative novelist like Neil Gaiman who would write entries when he had compelling stories to tell.
    It was Gerard Jones' plan for Mosaic to go on. It was, in fact, an ongoing comic. His goal was to give John his own niche, because with Hal around, he lacked one. That's the same thought process behind turning him into a Darkstar. It's not too difficult to see how the story could continue. Oa would simply be John's Gotham or Metropolis, so to speak.

    We can just as easily say that Green Lantern Corps is too similar to Green Lantern. I mean, where do you draw the line?

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    It was Gerard Jones' plan for Mosaic to go on. It was, in fact, an ongoing comic. His goal was to give John his own niche, because with Hal around, he lacked one. That's the same thought process behind turning him into a Darkstar. It's not too difficult to see how the story could continue. Oa would simply be John's Gotham or Metropolis, so to speak.

    We can just as easily say that Green Lantern Corps is too similar to Green Lantern. I mean, where do you draw the line?
    For the line separating GL from GLC, it would be solo book vs team book, with the solo book involving Earth and the team book involving Oa. The solo book is a personal journey, while the team book is a group's journey.

    Your idea of setting a book on Oa made me think about having a GL serve as internal affairs to the Corps and investigating corruption like Jack Reacher, but I think that idea would run its course pretty quickly. The Batman books dominate detective stories... BUT then I realized you could do an Alias-style book in the GL franchise, with a character who isn't a GL but has GL-like powers or draws on the powers of another Corps. This character could serve as a private eye in the GL universe in the way that the RLs were a biker gang to the GL police force. This private eye character could link people on earth to crimes in space--like a girl getting abducted by aliens and her parents hiring this character since GL has to triage. This character could be a current GL or an original character. I think an established character like Guy or Jessica or Kyle would be an easier sell. I think it would be best if this character were formerly part of some Lantern Corps other than the GLs or RLs. You could do this with the Darkstars, but then it starts to feel like you're getting into Kate Spencer territory, and she didn't take. Never really got a boost from GL fans even though she used Manhunter tech. Alias wasn't a successful ongoing, but I think X-Factor starring multiple man might've been, and it had a similar premise.

    Regardless, I wouldn't want to see John in that role because it's a spinoff idea. I think for John to be on par with the trinity, he needs to carry a franchise.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 11-20-2019 at 06:31 AM.

  11. #476
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    Personally, I'd like to see a "GL" main book and a "GLC" book always on the stands and essentially every year or so after each storyline, they swap out or rotate who gets the solo spotlight for character development and mix up which GL's are in the team book. And the solo book doesn't have to be an earth-based Lantern either. I'd love if one of the alien GL's held the solo title for an arc, but that would be unlikely.

  12. #477
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    So...

    What would you read if it was on the shelves? I kinda feel like thats a relavant question because sometimes I feel like I hear more "That'll never works" than

    "MAN! I'd BUY 2 OF THAT EVERY TIME IT HIT THE SHELVES!"

    For me every-time they make a Mr.Terrific book I try it. I want it to work, but it never really catches me like I think it will.

    So I guess I can say I'd read Mr.Terrific and thats one drop in the bucked towards importance.

    I'll read John Stewart, regardless of costume, but, mostly cause I liked him in his out of comics renditions, and I think ... I think thats it.

    I don't really consider the milestone people because its... so far away from where we are.

    Oh I'd read firestorm.

    So for me I'd read a John Stewart book, a Firestorm book, and a Mr.Terrific book.
    *Depending on the stories*

    Thats what I'm checking for...


    Hmmm... you ever see Cyborg From kingdom come? I'd give him a shot at that version.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 11-20-2019 at 07:46 AM.
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  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    So...

    What would you read if it was on the shelves? I kinda feel like thats a relavant question because sometimes I feel like I hear more "That'll never works" than

    "MAN! I'd BUY 2 OF THAT EVERY TIME IT HIT THE SHELVES!"
    I don't think there is any black character at DC right now I would read no matter what. Their books would have to catch my attention for some other reason besides just the character. Primarily quality would be the deciding factor.

    I think I'm at odds with most DC fandom at this stage in my comics journey, because, concerning a black character, I would actually like to see something new that is actually really good. And I know most DC fans hate new stuff, especially if nothing is being done with a character they like. But for a black character to carry their own franchise, I think DC would have to do old fashioned work and build that from the ground up, and preferably independent of other characters. Thing is, the concepts would have to be just as good as Superman, Batman, and the best that DC has to offer. Now, if DC presented a black male character like that, I would be 1000% behind it. Yet, I know that is extremely unlikely to happen for a variety of reasons, and that's largely why this topic has been going on this long...because DC can't/won't just make a character to take care of this deficiency in its line up, and DC fans have an odd peculiarity in turning their noses up at new ideas, so it likely wouldn't work anyway. The company wouldn't really be able to do it, the company probably just wouldn't do it, and the fans would probably reject it.

    Any other course of action is just not that feasible, or is a shortsighted shortcut that would cause massive damage and warfare, and probably wouldn't be effective in the long run anyway, like having John Stewart steal Hal Jordan's position.

    I guess there are characters in mothballs that could be built up, like...Bloodwynd or someone, but they would require so much work, and they aren't even good ideas usually, so I would rather just see something new and better.

  14. #479
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    So...

    What would you read if it was on the shelves?.
    Well, I won't read anything unless the stories and hook are good, regardless of who the star is.

    But I always give Mr. Terrific a shot, and have quite enjoyed The Terrifics.

    I always give Cyborg a shot.....and someday, I'll get the book I know that character is capable of providing!

    Same goes for Black Lightning, though I haven't really enjoyed any of his mini's or books like I did the one from the 90's.

    I'll also check out team books if those characters are on the roster.

    I'd grab a John Stewart book in a heartbeat, regardless of whether he's a Lantern or a Darkstar or whatever. And I'm very likely to read his book over Hal's, if I have a choice. Not a Hal fan at all.

    Vixen.....I like her, but for me to grab a solo title I'd have to have a lot of confidence in the creators and the direction.

    I'll give Firestorm a shot if Jason or a comic version of Jax is involved. I think Ronnie wore out his welcome forever ago and should've stayed dead (the first time!). But Martin Stein is a must-have for me. If he's not involved, the odds of me getting Firestorm are a whole hell of a lot lower.

    I'll read Steel as long as it's John Henry. Natasha is great as a supporting character and I got nothing against her, but if I read Steel it needs to be Dr. Irons in the armor. Way back when she first replaced him it pissed me off (Steel was one of my favorite heroes at the time) and that soured Natasha for me in a way I never got over.

    I'd be very happy to see more from Duke like we got in the Signal mini; the daytime, metahuman protector of Gotham is a fantastic hook. But honestly, it's the hook more than the character that I'm interested in.

    And if Milestone ever publishes a book again I'll grab that, without question, until and unless the quality proves to be substandard.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-20-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  15. #480
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    I don't think DC has done this in quite a while, but the point about differing statuses stands.

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