View Poll Results: Which of DC's Black Characters Has the Most Potential to Achieve Trinity Status?

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  • Green Lantern (John Stewart)

    41 28.28%
  • Vixen (Mari McCabe)

    18 12.41%
  • Cyborg (Victor Stone)

    12 8.28%
  • Black Lightning/Vulcan (Jefferson Pierce)

    24 16.55%
  • Static (Virgil Hawkins)

    7 4.83%
  • Naomi (Naomi McDuffie)

    8 5.52%
  • Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt)

    6 4.14%
  • Steel (John Henry Irons)

    3 2.07%
  • Bumblebee (Karen Beecher)

    0 0%
  • Icon (Augustus Freeman IV)

    1 0.69%
  • Rocket (Raquel Ervin)

    0 0%
  • Amazing-Man (Any Version)

    1 0.69%
  • Aqualad (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde)

    1 0.69%
  • Other (Specify Below)

    3 2.07%
  • None

    20 13.79%
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    What do you mean by that. Just because people disagree doesn't mean they have "lazy attitudes". If some people are bothered by black characters having "Black" in their superhero name, more power to them, why is it lazy to express themselves about it.
    Well yes if you want to be bothered about mohammed ali, james brown, negritude etc then by all means be bothered.

    But equating it to "mongoloid mangler" etc is clearly complete rubbish

  2. #77
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Well yes if you want to be bothered about mohammed ali, james brown, negritude etc then by all means be bothered.

    But equating it to "mongoloid mangler" etc is clearly complete rubbish
    No it isn't. It's the same thing. A ridiculous name that is a constant reminder of a character's race.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    No it isn't. It's the same thing. A ridiculous name that is a constant reminder of a character's race.
    Lot of people fought to get their colour changed from a perjorative into a positive. Just rubbishing all that as ridiculous is... whatever works for you.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    You can't run from your past because you find it uncomfortable. If you don't remember your history you're doomed to repeat it and knowledge of self is the greatest knowledge of all.
    Yeah, so lets celebrate it and outdated values.

    Are you in favor of keeping up Confederate statues on government property?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Yeah, so lets celebrate it and outdated values.

    Are you in favor of keeping up Confederate statues on government property?
    A black superhero using "black" in their code name is not remotely the same as Confederate statues.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Do you think that's true for all franchises? There's certainly Flash-wars. And Robin ones - Dick fans who think he's been torn down for the sake of Tim (though only in the 2000s and later, as far as I know) and Tim fans who think he was diminished for Damian's sake. Definitely some Jon-haters for the specific cause of wanting Kon to have prominence and be Superboy. Who haven't we noticed this with - Donna and Cassie, I guess, since Donna was sorta screwed up before Cassie came on the scene (though it got worse later, I don't think any of that is connected to Cassie) and had moved on from title well before that?
    I'm not sure if it stands for all franchises but I think there's always going to be certain characters that are seen as necessary for the particular franchise to have a good foundation. That's how DC has structured their legacy series. With Robin, even when you see other representatives in outside media, they still tend to start with Dick first, before moving on to someone else. And even if they do, Dick as Nightwing still tends to be showcased more prominently than whoever the new Robin happens to be. Damian didn't have his own solo book, but Dick did. Similarly, I don't think you can do Batgirl Cass Cain without introducing Barbara first. Fans need to have that emotional connection to the character so when they do get replaced, the transition has to mean something, not just vaguely mention the original character as part of some backstory or ignore them completely. Either way, you would always have frustrated fans because no matter what happens certain characters would get shafted in the process. DC has never cared about equal footing in terms of legacy mantles. Their only solution was to introduce new characters, not realizing how they end up overcrowding their own franchise like this, which only leads to more frustration from new fans who hate to see their favorites being sidelined when the classics return, same way the fans of the originals get mad when their favorites are replaced. It's literally damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm not sure how DC can take themselves out of this predicament.
    Last edited by Johnny; 10-14-2019 at 06:14 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    A black superhero using "black" in their code name is not remotely the same as Confederate statues.
    Saying that we should celebrate outdated values and not modernize even though they're problematic is the same line of thinking. We don't need to ignore the past, but it shouldn't go unaddressed.

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Saying that we should celebrate outdated values and not modernize even though they're problematic is the same line of thinking. We don't need to ignore the past, but it shouldn't go unaddressed.
    It should be addressed, you're right. But I think there's nothing wrong with Jeff saying "I'm black, I'm proud, and I want everyone to know that this strong black man is the one putting your ass in jail."

    The origins of the name are most certainly out-dated, but we still have plenty of racial tension in America, we have conflict between cops and BLM, and I think the Black Lightning name can be used to proper effect by having Jeff use it to "bridge the gap" as it were.

    The nature of the "race debate" has changed since Jeff was created, but there's still a debate happening, and I think the name can still be used properly, if not in the same way it was forty years ago.

    They could always just drop it to "Lightning" which is something I'd be fine with (same with Arrow and Canary) but I don't think its a deal breaker either.
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  9. #84
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    No it isn't. It's the same thing. A ridiculous name that is a constant reminder of a character's race.
    It appears that you'd rather they be homogenized and lumped in with the general superhero community and take the focus off of their race and that's a valid assertion. However there are many others who don't want them to blend in and lose what makes them unique and that's equally valid as well.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    It should be addressed, you're right. But I think there's nothing wrong with Jeff saying "I'm black, I'm proud, and I want everyone to know that this strong black man is the one putting your ass in jail."
    This point is made by the character being superhero without a full face mask. Putting his race in his name pigeonholes the character into an after school special at best.

  11. #86
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    I'm surprised that so many people find Black Lightning's name problematic. I can understand the arguments about Cyborg's 'handicap' limiting his potential(though I don't believe this at all) but to say that having 'black' in a character's codename makes them 'dated' or somehow keeps them from becoming mainstream or limiting their appeal is wrong in my opinion. What limits the character's appeal is their company.

    Marvel's black and minority characters have mass appeal because Marvel actually uses them and markets them. DC always does things halfway when it comes to their black characters. They use Outsiders to promote Black Lightning, but fail to use his family in the comics. They promote Cyborg to JL, have him job all the time, cut off his ties to the Titans, continue with the trite 'am I a man or monster' storyline, give him a sucky rogue gallery and shaft him in JLO. They fail to capitalize on John Stewart's popularity in the comics when the Justice League cartoon gave him exposure.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I'm surprised that so many people find Black Lightning's name problematic.
    Well, it's only like two or three people from what I've seen.
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  13. #88
    Fantastic Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Marvel's black and minority characters have mass appeal because Marvel actually uses them and markets them. DC always does things halfway when it comes to their black characters. They use Outsiders to promote Black Lightning, but fail to use his family in the comics. They promote Cyborg to JL, have him job all the time, cut off his ties to the Titans, continue with the trite 'am I a man or monster' storyline, give him a sucky rogue gallery and shaft him in JLO. They fail to capitalize on John Stewart's popularity in the comics when the Justice League cartoon gave him exposure.
    ^^^Basically.

    Cyborg (via cartoons and JLA movie Doom Patrol) and Black Lightning (via the CW show) are getting the most exposure right now, but, to try and answer the OP question...

    ...no black DC character is going to crack the Trinity.

    ...no white DC character is going to crack the Trinity.

    It’s the Trinity.

    Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman are ingrained in pop culture in a way no other character can hope to match by the simple virtue of being first.
    They were the heroes your grandparents knew/grew up with, your parents grew up with, you grew up with and your kids are growing up with/will grow up with.

    The most a DC hero (black or white) can achieve is to be popular in the moment. Mind you, that moment may last for YEARS, but compared to the almost century of exposure/ingraining themselves in the human psyche the Trinity has had, even a decade or two of popularity is a moment, relatively speaking.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    This point is made by the character being superhero without a full face mask. Putting his race in his name pigeonholes the character into an after school special at best.
    That's what YOU think, instead of pigeonholing I think it's uplifting. It also makes them easier to find by people looking specifically African-American superheroes. That's why the works of James Baldwin, Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou aren't put in the general literature section of bookstores.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    That's what YOU think, instead of pigeonholing I think it's uplifting. It also makes them easier to find by people looking specifically African-American superheroes. That's why the works of James Baldwin, Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou aren't put in the general literature section of bookstores.
    Those writers were specifically focused on civil rights. We're not in the civil rights era, so a Black Paragon shouldn't be pigeonholed to that. It takes away dimensions of the character by limiting them to race alone.

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