Logan and Sabretooth: About that 'reveal' back in '91?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Apologies if there's already been a thread about this, but I'm young enough to have to do a lot of back-reading still and, well:

https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/...-Comics-h4.jpg

I gotta be honest; half of me is absolutely fascinated by this...but the other half of me can't help but find it darkly hilarious?

And I'm not sure why; it should be the most dramatic thing in the world! You have this apparent 'father' who is absolutely hell bent on killing his 'son' just for the sheer pleasure of it...which gets even more dramatic when it's revealed that no, they aren't related, Sabretooth just thinks they are...

It's kinda fascinating in one respect? But I think I know in my heart of heart's why it just wouldn't work for sure: What're everyone else's thoughts?

(Also, did Sabretooth ever realise that he's not Logan's father...? Was that ever addressed or does he still think that?)

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Claremont pitched that idea of Creed being Logan's father...but Marvel editors nixed it, for the simple fact that Wolverine broke out into being this big name character with a huge profile while Sabertooth was an unknown generic villain and they didn't think Creed ought to be elevated like that.

It's probably for the best. I happen to like Wolverine Origin by Paul Jenkins and I think it's for the best that Wolverine's parents and family the Howletts and that groundskeeper Logan, were made into his lineage.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Claremont pitched that idea of Creed being Logan's father...but Marvel editors nixed it, for the simple fact that Wolverine broke out into being this big name character with a huge profile while Sabertooth was an unknown generic villain and they didn't think Creed ought to be elevated like that.

It's probably for the best. I happen to like Wolverine Origin by Paul Jenkins and I think it's for the best that Wolverine's parents and family the Howletts and that groundskeeper Logan, were made into his lineage.

Oh definitely, couldn't agree more! I think, even for a dramatic reveal, there's just too much hatred in Sabretooth and Logan's relationship to make that a believable twist, even if Sabretooth is supposed to be this blood-lusting monster.

That said; did Sabretooth ever find out that it was just a false memory? Or like, does he still actually believe this?

[TheCape]

Oh definitely, couldn't agree more! I think, even for a dramatic reveal, there's just too much hatred in Sabretooth and Logan's relationship to make that a believable twist, even if Sabretooth is supposed to be this blood-lusting monster.

That said; did Sabretooth ever find out that it was just a false memory? Or like, does he still actually believe this?

Yes Sabretooth realized that later. Like 25 issues after Logan.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yes Sabretooth realized that later. Like 25 issues after Logan.

Right, fair enough; thankyou!

[Jackraow21]

Don’t forget the whole Jeph Loeb story that revealed that they were not related per se, but rather were both part of a separate branch of humanity descended from wolves instead of apes. Actually, on second thought, do forget that. Please forget it. It was awful. Ha.

But I like the fact that Logan and Creed aren’t actually related, rather they are just two mutants with similar powers and long lives who crossed paths and hate one another.

[TheCape]

Right, fair enough; thankyou!

Your welcome

[Revolutionary_Jack]

But I like the fact that Logan and Creed aren’t actually related, rather they are just two mutants with similar powers and long lives who crossed paths and hate one another.

Yeah that works better. And ultimately Wolverine has outgrown Sabretooth. And Sabretooth is better off without Wolverine...like in HOX/POX he becomes the problem child for all mutantkind, and an interesting foil against their high ideologies. And not a single scene with Logan.

Claremont saw Wolverine/Logan as a supporting player and a minor figure in X-Men so backstories tied to Sabretooth and them being elevated cubs and wolves as was conceived at different times made sense for the characters as initially conceived but Wolverine evolved out of that clearly and became the series protagonist and one of the major mutants. So he needed an origin with proper gravitas and seriousness.

That's why Wolverine Origin was even commissioned. Fox who ran the X-Men series wanted to deal with Logan's past and provide an answer and Marvel realized that either they do an origin or Fox would. So that led to Jenkins' ORIGIN where Wolverine was this pampered sweet shy kid. And it's so shock and sad that this kid became this murder machine symphony orchestra.

[AbnormallyNormal]

The (much maligned) XMO:W film has them as brothers.

I feel it worked well in the context of that film, perhaps better than father-son would.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The (much maligned) XMO:W film has them as brothers.

I feel it worked well in the context of that film, perhaps better than father-son would.

That's based on them combining Dog Logan with Sabretooth. Jenkins said that he saw Dog as a separate character from Creed but he left it open for another writer to retcon him into Creed. In either case, Dog Logan was intended to be a Sabretooth stand-in the same way those other characters Rose and her boyfriend stood in for Scott and Jean, suggesting that Wolverine's been unconsciously repeating a childhood pattern.

But Marvel ultimately kept Dog Logan and Creed as separate characters.

I think Marvel editors want it so that Wolverine can exist without Sabertooth...poor Creed.

[H-E-D]

The backstory Kieron Gillen’s Origin II gave them was... kinda interesting?

[AbnormallyNormal]

That's based on them combining Dog Logan with Sabretooth. Jenkins said that he saw Dog as a separate character from Creed but he left it open for another writer to retcon him into Creed. In either case, Dog Logan was intended to be a Sabretooth stand-in the same way those other characters Rose and her boyfriend stood in for Scott and Jean, suggesting that Wolverine's been unconsciously repeating a childhood pattern.

But Marvel ultimately kept Dog Logan and Creed as separate characters.

I think Marvel editors want it so that Wolverine can exist without Sabertooth...poor Creed.

To be honest I was enjoying Bunn's Uncanny run with Sabretooth as the Wolverine stand-in and would have liked much more. Sabretooth is similar to Wolvie but different. He's actually a character I want explored more, while Wolvie is still absurdly played-out and needs to go away for a long long long time IMO

[TheCape]

The backstory Kieron Gillen’s Origin II gave them was... kinda interesting?

I think that weird, is more appropiate term there.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

To be honest I was enjoying Bunn's Uncanny run with Sabretooth as the Wolverine stand-in and would have liked much more. Sabretooth is similar to Wolvie but different. He's actually a character I want explored more, while Wolvie is still absurdly played-out and needs to go away for a long long long time IMO

It's kind of strange how the two characters have these connections off-screen that never add up in-page.

John Byrne who designed Sabretooth in his first appearance in Iron Fist said that originally Victor's face was based on how he envisioned Wolverine looked like behind the mask. Then he found out that Dave Cockrum already designed Logan so he had to accept that and he repurposed that for Creed.

[Michael Watkins]

Why is Dog Logan?