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  1. #241
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Manchuria has a long history of Japanese occupation, right?
    Not exactly. Manchu are descendants of some Jurchen tribes (at least they said they were, as is often the case with tribal ethnicities, things can be a lot more complex than that), themselves a part of the Tungusic ethnic group, that is peoples originating from East Asia and Siberia. Ethnically speaking, they are thus very distinct from the Han (the main ethnic group in China), and while they ruled over them, notably with the Qing Dynasty, Manchu imposed strict separations between Han and Manchu (like a lot of steppes-born dynasties did) while adopting a lot of the Han's cultural heritage and adding their own over it. Hence, the braids.

    In essence, Manchu did the exact same things Mongols and -in Europe - the Germanic tribes did when they conquered China/Western Rome. They took over, adapted some institutions and added their own cultural traits to it, but in essence, they did retain a lot of respect and fascination for the Chineses/Romans in term of religious displays, culture and heritage. If White settlers in America had done the same, the various ethnic groups of the Native may well have been subjugated by them but instead of being wiped out and their cultural legacy shattered or erased, White people would have taken their gods, their vision of the world and mixed it with their own.

    In regard to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, it was the result of them setting up a puppet state here, to pillage the resources of the region. In essence, it was just another colonization effort, but down by non-Europeans, like they did at Taiwan and in the whole of Korea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Yeah, China's been around, and pretty much monolithic, for three thousand years. I doubt it will be indistinguishable from Japan 1000 years from now...
    It's a common idea, but it is actually very false. China has changed a lot over its history, like any country. It has never been a monolith, with constant changes of territories, culture and Empires.
    Last edited by Korath; 11-19-2019 at 01:28 AM.

  2. #242
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Not exactly. Manchu are descendants of some Jurchen tribes (at least they said they were, as is often the case with tribal ethnicities, things can be a lot more complex than that), themselves a part of the Tungusic ethnic group, that is peoples originating from East Asia and Siberia. Ethnically speaking, they are thus very distinct from the Han (the main ethnic group in China), and while they ruled over them, notably with the Qing Dynasty, Manchu imposed strict separations between Han and Manchu (like a lot of steppes-born dynasties did) while adopting a lot of the Han's cultural heritage and adding their own over it. Hence, the braids.

    In essence, Manchu did the exact same things Mongols and -in Europe - the Germanic tribes did when they conquered China/Western Rome. They took over, adapted some institutions and added their own cultural traits to it, but in essence, they did retain a lot of respect and fascination for the Chineses/Romans in term of religious displays, culture and heritage. If White settlers in America had done the same, the various ethnic groups of the Native may well have been subjugated by them but instead of being wiped out and their cultural legacy shattered or erased, White people would have taken their gods, their vision of the world and mixed it with their own.

    In regard to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, it was the result of them setting up a puppet state here, to pillage the resources of the region. In essence, it was just another colonization effort, but down by non-Europeans, like they did at Taiwan and in the whole of Korea.



    It's a common idea, but it is actually very false. China has changed a lot over its history, like any country. It has never been a monolith, with constant changes of territories, culture and Empires.
    never mind,did'nt pay attention
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 11-19-2019 at 05:25 AM.

  3. #243
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Not exactly. Manchu are descendants of some Jurchen tribes (at least they said they were, as is often the case with tribal ethnicities, things can be a lot more complex than that), themselves a part of the Tungusic ethnic group, that is peoples originating from East Asia and Siberia. Ethnically speaking, they are thus very distinct from the Han (the main ethnic group in China), and while they ruled over them, notably with the Qing Dynasty, Manchu imposed strict separations between Han and Manchu (like a lot of steppes-born dynasties did) while adopting a lot of the Han's cultural heritage and adding their own over it. Hence, the braids.

    In essence, Manchu did the exact same things Mongols and -in Europe - the Germanic tribes did when they conquered China/Western Rome. They took over, adapted some institutions and added their own cultural traits to it, but in essence, they did retain a lot of respect and fascination for the Chineses/Romans in term of religious displays, culture and heritage. If White settlers in America had done the same, the various ethnic groups of the Native may well have been subjugated by them but instead of being wiped out and their cultural legacy shattered or erased, White people would have taken their gods, their vision of the world and mixed it with their own.

    In regard to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, it was the result of them setting up a puppet state here, to pillage the resources of the region. In essence, it was just another colonization effort, but down by non-Europeans, like they did at Taiwan and in the whole of Korea.



    It's a common idea, but it is actually very false. China has changed a lot over its history, like any country. It has never been a monolith, with constant changes of territories, culture and Empires.
    Thanks for the detailed response!

    Japan has always had limited resources on its little island and Manchuria is right there, for the taking. I was reading about the area and its apparently quite diverse even today with over 50 different ethnic minority groups.

    Maybe they can tie that connection into Karate Kid. I'd like to think so, just because its a character that is pretty much a landmine of potential racial and ethnic stereotypes and I'd like to see someone tackle them in some meaningful way.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  4. #244
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    Rose is the liason from the present to the future. Maybe the perceptions of world culture during "the Age of Heroes" that the Legion has came from her, and maybe her understanding of world culture is about the same as the cultural understanding of the average American living today.

  5. #245
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Weird that we followed Rose through the centuries only to have her show up in #1 then disappear. Kinda like how the Legion just showed up in the past then disappeared.(before coming back) C'mon, Bendis - what are you doing here?

  6. #246
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    Well, that was a huge disappointment. Okay, a couple of panels looked good, but when the Legion is showed in mass -- the art suffers. I was never crazy about Sook's designs, but they look even worse in the book.

    Okay, I get it -- this is for a 'woke' audience -- and I passionately despise that term. I'm definitely not the target audience, and will probably have to accept that and move on. I'm not even sure there was a story to follow. And I didn't get the ending at all. I did like the cover.

  7. #247
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Well, that was a huge disappointment. Okay, a couple of panels looked good, but when the Legion is showed in mass -- the art suffers. I was never crazy about Sook's designs, but they look even worse in the book.

    Okay, I get it -- this is for a 'woke' audience -- and I passionately despise that term. I'm definitely not the target audience, and will probably have to accept that and move on. I'm not even sure there was a story to follow. And I didn't get the ending at all. I did like the cover.
    Most longtime Legion fans like myself probably were never intended to be the target audience, who can say for sure. The only given here is that first issue was a tough slog (at least it was for me), and I don't know things will improve in issue two.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Well, that was a huge disappointment. Okay, a couple of panels looked good, but when the Legion is showed in mass -- the art suffers. I was never crazy about Sook's designs, but they look even worse in the book.

    Okay, I get it -- this is for a 'woke' audience -- and I passionately despise that term. I'm definitely not the target audience, and will probably have to accept that and move on. I'm not even sure there was a story to follow. And I didn't get the ending at all. I did like the cover.
    I'd be cool with them using more focus on the pre-existing Legionnaires of Color, and retired some of the older white folk (the three Founders, for example).

    A Legion book that focused on more Tyroc and Dawnstar, brought back Karate Kid 2 (Myg), and introduced classic continuity versions of Dragonmage, Danielle Foccault / Computo, Kid Quantum 2 / Jasmin, etc. could have all sorts of diverse Legionnaires, while still tossing in various white folk like Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl, Lightning Lass and Shrinking Violet, and some more traditionally alien Legionnaires like Tellus and Gates and Chameleon Boy.

    The Legion has plenty of black or Asian members, scattered across continuities, to draw from. Plus new ones can be added, as Levitz did in the last relaunch with Glorith, Harmonia Li, Dragonwing, Chemical Kid, Otaki and Mwindaji. And maybe a Latino can show up, someday.

  9. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Weird that we followed Rose through the centuries only to have her show up in #1 then disappear. Kinda like how the Legion just showed up in the past then disappeared.(before coming back) C'mon, Bendis - what are you doing here?
    I actually wasn't sure about Millennium but then I found I loved following Rose's endless life. I hope she actually gets to be a part of things going forward, or at least let her story find an end at last, like someone finally finds a way to cure her immortality and she can finally find peace!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  10. #250
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  11. #251
    Incredible Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Kill me...
    Bad bad boy with a bad bad girl in a bad bad world.

    Favorite Characters:
    1-Batman, 2- Wolverine 3-Nightwing, 4-Darkness, 5- Blade

  12. #252
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Kill me...
    No.
    Get up. We need you in the fight.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  13. #253
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    I haven’t seen all the redesigns, so who’s the Ororo wannabe standing just behind Brainy?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #254
    Be Seeing You… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I haven’t seen all the redesigns, so who’s the Ororo wannabe standing just behind Brainy?
    Unidentified, but the leading candidates are Shrinking Violet & Infectious Lass.

  15. #255
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Unidentified, but the leading candidates are Shrinking Violet & Infectious Lass.
    Speaking of Violet, will Bendis revisit the romantic relationship she had with Lightning Lass?
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

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