Page 25 of 27 FirstFirst ... 1521222324252627 LastLast
Results 361 to 375 of 394
  1. #361
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Okay, this is just a wall of text. Please try to make it shorter.



    Dude. What are you even talking about??? No. Stories require at least a touch of reality to be taken seriously. Characters need to behave truthfully under a given set of circumstances, even when the circumstances are out there. If the circumstance is that Metropolis is a city very much in the U.S. and subject to U.S. laws and governance, no rational person is going to be like "I'm gonna take this and go up into space with it." Unless of course you're Brainiac, in which case you're a villain.



    I feel like I shouldn't have to say why it'd be a bad idea to make Metropolis into a city of fire, but what the heck. Metropolis, from its very early days was presented as a representation of the "everyday American city." That's the context of it. It's SUPPOSED to be like New York or Philadelphia or Baltimore, except Superman lives there. And in fact, it's meant to GROUND Superman. It was meant as a signal to kids like "hey look, Superman lives in a city just like the one you live in. Isn't that neat?" Now, you could do a story where Metropolis turns into a city of vampires for a short period of time, but it would have to revert back eventually since again it's meant to be a stand in for real American cities.



    Captain America in Civil War wasn't trying to rocket away with Washington, DC.



    Taking a city away from the country of which it's a part usually signals that such person believes they own it or at least have the authority to decide its future. Clark is nowhere near that arrogant. It's shocking that you think he is.



    Okay. I don't know if you're actually serious with this or not...

    Last I checked, the people of Metropolis hadn't appointed Superman their lord and savior nor had they renounced the U.S. government. And EVEN IF Superman approached them with this offer (which, again, he wouldn't), it would be incredibly unrealistic and just plain bad writing for all like 10 million people in Metropolis to be like "Oh yes, Superman, take us away from Earth and launch us into orbit. We trust you that much." That just wouldn't happen.

    On top of that, flowery language from the Declaration of Independence aside, sovereignty is a concept that goes back way farther than that document. It's a basic tenet of international law. And breaching a nation's sovereignty is a serious offense. You really think the U.S. government wouldn't have a legitimate gripe if Superman just up and decided to steal one of their major cities?? You think they would just sit by an let it happen?? Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
    Not, all stories need to be taken seriously. Besides, that superman can and has done such stories. Superman is a flexible character. And as for rationality, what's so irrational about building a city of tomorrow?as matter of fact, not building one is. it just happens to fly. If it threaten the us government. That's on them. Who said it wouldn't have realism?it won't adhere to it full, that's it. Emotional realism can be there. Not a necessary as well.

    No, it's not. Metropolis has been many things through out it's tenure. It has been corrupt hell, cyberpunk, futuristic, atomic age... Etc. Even, bendis has a city being eco friendly with trees on buildings and stuff. It was meant to be the city of tomorrow. That's what it's supposed to be. Not everyday nonsense. Ground - shmound it's freaking boring and unimaginative. That's what it is. A guy who flys getting grounded is like being in a cage. It's a metaphor, btw. And no, it isn't a dig at the cast. His cast used to fly with him. Yeah! Kids will looooove reading things about "a city like ours". Dude, have you ever given kids superman book and asked them about the city? I have. They said its boring. At the same time, i gave a gotham book. They said it was cool. I showed them water7 or skypiea. They were amazed. This is comics everything reverts back eventually. I know how it works. That's all the more reasons to make the city into whatever you want. Being imaginative is a gift.

    Captain america wasn't flying a city away. Just a buch potential bombs. for instance, scarlet witch. Steve refuses to sign a document because he legitimately fights for ideals like freedom.He decides to become a fugitive instead. Superman would as well. Clark and steve value the ideals. So, yeah! Things like the words in declaration of independence and the philosophy of the American state being formed means more to them than the petty politics.

    Nope! It means people of Metropolis decided they wanted to disband its affiliation, for so and so reasons.

    Has not yet. Doesn't mean they won't. Does it? I would vote for superman if he decided to help make a city of tomorrow. Its a no-brainer. It might be a serious offence to the offended like the British whom US once fought. They can try.Like,clark cares. Clark fears nothing, not even darkseid . He is the freaking superman. As long as he has the consent of the people. He would take government on,if he has to. That's just how a guy doing the right thing functions. Like i said, it would an awesome storyline.superman taking on the army ain't nothing new.Superman is beast. He might have tamed himself because of people. But that doesn't mean he isn't dangerous.


    You think a city of tomorrow is just about flying in the space. Do you have problems with reading comprehension? Flight is just a metaphor.Both laputa and new genesis are wayyyy advanced mega-structures. And i know concept of nationstate is older and sovereignity even older than that. But, it doesn't mean a thing to superman. Superman bows to no one, unless he wishes to. His morality is the only chain that binds him. That's the choice he makes.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-15-2020 at 11:02 PM.

  2. #362
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Not, all stories need to be taken seriously. Besides, that superman can and has done such stories. Superman is a flexible character. And as for rationality, what's so irrational about building a city of tomorrow?as matter of fact, not building one is. it just happens to fly. If it threaten the us government. That's on them. Who said it wouldn't have realism?it won't adhere to it full, that's it. Emotional realism can be there. Not a necessary as well.
    Except, again, you don't have emotional realism because nobody would act that way. Nobody would think that it's totally okay to carry off or install themselves as the ruler of an American city. Nobody (or at least not most people), if presented with the idea of having their city carried off the face of the Earth and/or put under the guardianship on one man who they didn't elect, would be okay with it.

    No, it's not. Metropolis has been many things through out it's tenure. It has been corrupt hell, cyberpunk, futuristic, atomic age... Etc. Even, bendis has a city being eco friendly with trees on buildings and stuff. It was meant to be the city of tomorrow. That's what it's supposed to be. Not everyday nonsense. Ground - shmound it's freaking boring and unimaginative. That's what it is. A guy who flys getting grounded is like being in a cage. It's a metaphor, btw. And no, it isn't a dig at the cast. His cast used to fly with him. Yeah! Kids will looooove reading things about "a city like ours".
    Again, Metropolis has always been presented as the quintessential ideal of an American city. It has always had elements of futurism in it, but it is still an American city, not Superman's personal fiefdom.

    Dude, have you ever given kids superman book and asked them about the city? I have. They said its boring. At the same time, i gave a gotham book. They said it was cool. I showed them water7 or skypiea. They were amazed. This is comics everything reverts back eventually. I know how it works. That's all the more reasons to make the city into whatever you want. Being imaginative is a gift.
    Dude, your experience is not automatically attributable to the majority of people. Please tell me you know that.

    Captain america wasn't flying a city away. Just a buch potential bombs. for instance, scarlet witch. Steve refuses to sign a document because he legitimately fights for ideals like freedom.He decides to become a fugitive instead. Superman would as well. Clark and steve value the ideals. So, yeah! Things like the words in declaration of independence and the philosophy of the American state being formed means more to them than the petty politics.
    Did you read Civil War? The whole point of that series was that Captain America was fighting against what he perceived as the government overstepping its bounds and registering people in a manner consistent with fascistic governments. What boundary is the government overstepping by simply maintaining sovereignty over an American city???? In that case, Superman wouldn't be the noble fugitive fighting for a cause. He'd be an actual bad guy who committed an act of war against the U.S. government.

    Please tell me you recognize the difference.

    Nope! It means people of Metropolis decided they wanted to disband its affiliation, for so and so reasons.
    Except they can't do that legally. You know how the Civil War worked out, right?

    Has not yet. Doesn't mean they won't. Does it? I would vote for superman if he decided to help make a city of tomorrow. Its a no-brainer. It might be a serious offence to the offended like the British whom US once fought. They can try.Like,clark cares. Clark fears nothing, not even darkseid . He is the freaking superman. As long as he has the consent of the people. He would take government on,if he has to. That's just how a guy doing the right thing functions. Like i said, it would an awesome storyline.superman taking on the army ain't nothing new.Superman is beast. He might have tamed himself because of people. But that doesn't mean he isn't dangerous.
    Uh, the rest of the country would NOT be okay with it. Again, you know how the Civil War worked out, right? If Superman just used his power to steal an American city away from the nation, then he would be in the wrong. No ifs ands or buts about it.

    You think a city of tomorrow is just about flying in the space. Do you have problems with reading comprehension? Flight is just a metaphor.Both laputa and new genesis are wayyyy advanced mega-structures. And i know concept of nationstate is older and sovereignity even older than that. But, it doesn't mean a thing to superman. Superman bows to no one, unless he wishes to. His morality is the only chain that binds him. That's the choice he makes.
    You are literally saying that Superman should have no constraints on his actions. In other words, you are up for writers just abandoning the man part of "Superman." What I'm telling you is that that doesn't make for a relatable protagonist. People don't really relate to a guy who considers himself a god. Now, that is what could make for a compelling villain. I'd say some of the character traits you're describing (the idea that you know what is best for humanity) is something seen in the likes of Lex Luthor, but that's not Clark.

    What makes Superman relatable (and therefore enjoyable to read for the majority of people) is that he doesn't think of himself as a god. He sees himself as just one of us, like you and me. He fights for what's right, but what's right to him is not putting himself at the head of humanity. Never has been. Never will be.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-16-2020 at 12:56 AM.

  3. #363
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Except, again, you don't have emotional realism because nobody would act that way. Nobody would think that it's totally okay to carry off an American city. Nobody (or at least not most people), if presented with the idea of having their city carried off the face of the Earth and put under the guardianship on one man, would be okay with it.



    Again, Metropolis has always been presented as the quintessential ideal of an American city. It has always had elements of futurism in it, but it is still an American city, not Superman's personal fiefdom.



    Dude, your experience is not automatically attributable to the majority of people. Please tell me you know that.



    Did you read Civil War? The whole point of that series was that Captain America was fighting against what he perceived as the government overstepping its bounds and registering people in a manner consistent with fascistic governments. What boundary is the government overstepping by simply maintaining sovereignty over an American city???? In that case, Superman wouldn't be the noble fugitive fighting for a cause. He'd be an actual bad guy who committed an act of war against the U.S. government.

    Please tell me you recognize the difference.



    Except they can't do that legally. You know how the Civil War worked out, right?



    Uh, the rest of the country would NOT be okay with it. Again, you know how the Civil War worked out, right? If Superman just used his power to steal an American city away from the nation, then he would be in the wrong. No ifs ands or buts about it.



    You are literally saying that Superman should have no constraints on his actions. In other words, you are up for writers just abandoning the man part of "Superman." What I'm telling you is that that doesn't make for a compelling character. People don't really relate to a guy who considers himself a god. What makes Superman relatable (and therefore enjoyable to read for the majority of people) is that he doesn't think of himself as a god. He sees himself as just one of us, like you and me. He fights for what's right, but what's right to him is not putting himself at the head of humanity. Never has been. Never will be.
    What guardianship?Nobody said anything about making superman king or something. Superman achieves the herculean task of making a city fly and there by making it a city of tomorrow. People would want to live in that That's emotional realism. I would love to live in a city like laputa or New genesis. What's so unrealistic about that? Is iceburg a bad guy to try to build a city that swims on water? No, he ain't.

    I know that. But, you don't. You made a statement that seemed factual, like "kids love it because it's like our city". When the truth is its subjective. That was the point of my rebuttal.

    What's with the american, american nonsense?Metropolis would still have roots in american culture and philosophy .it won't suddenly become japanese Just because it chooses to fly. Actually, Metropolis was built for superman to have a city. So, yeah! It is his fiefdom. That's the writing side. In universe, superman doesn't give a damn about sovereignty or other nonsense. If he believes he can do some real good or some real change. He is a vigilante who decided to take that approach because the city was corrupt and full of self serving jackasses like lex who oppressed the little guy.if US government chooses to be lex. Clark as superman would oppose. Its that simple mate.

    If you are talking about comics. Captain america realised that he was actually causing damage to the people with his war. Superman isn't capt. He isn't a soldier. War would be last resort.He would always go for talks. But, if need be He can and will protect the city from darkseid. Let alone, US government . In the civil war movies, he chose being a fugitive and stay that way than giving up his ideal. Superman can do both. US government would be overstepping by not having the consent of the people who have chosen to live in a city of tomorrow . If that's their choice. Government doesn't have a right to say no. Please tell me, you understand that. Its like this if the mutants of America wanted to leave America and create a country. US government has no right to say no.

    If the rest of the country is not ok with it, they would have to have dialogue. But, if people of Metropolis aren't turned around in negotiations. Then outside city folks have no say in whether or not superman should make city fly and make it advanced. He wouldn't be wrong. Two people just want two different things. That's it. (I am emphasising that a flying city is essentially an advanced city.)

    The man and super are one. You can't take away super out of superman. You would be left with nothing and vice versa. He isn't just a man with powers. Powers are him like his smile or any other attribute. He has all the constraints of a superman and faces repercussions of the actions he takes. That doesn't mean he is afraid of anything. He is afraid of people not accepting him, of losing love, that's it. Superman like luffy would have all the limitations of a superman. But, a superman not a man. Your idea of superman is, dividing him into 'super' and 'man', an emphasising a part. Mainly 'the man' part. My idea is morrison's idea/philosophy. He does what every man does on grandeos level. He walks his dog past saturn. Takes his wife to planet namek for dinner. Takes his kid to europa for playing fetch.every man tries to clean his street or helps advancement/development of his city. Superman does as well on whole different scale. No, he doesn't let them stay in relative misery having to face things like diseases, hunger, poverty.. Etc.when and if he can do something about it. He lifts people up. He doesn't see himself a god.Gods don't care about ants. Does new genesis care about earth and its people?Does zeus and others care? No,the don't. He is one of the people, as you said. As one of them, he helps them advance. Not stay stuck in mediocrity. That's precisely the reason he uses his enginuity. Humanity will help him and stand with him, as many have the same ability as him. Not behind him. He isn't their dictator or caretaker. But, he is one of their foremost leaders. A leadership given to him, like the title of "superman". which was given to him by the people. They can take that leadership away as well. Their right and liberty.

    Batman asks the tamed superman a question in dark knight returns superman.:
    "you think you answer to some sort of authority. They only want me dead because i am an embarrassment. Because i do what they can't. What kind of authority is that?"
    His answer is "it's their world".
    If a batman had to ask that question to a superman and Clark's answer is that, then that superman has fallen.
    The Darknight returns batman's complaint with superman is that, he thought they(superman, him and others) were supposed to change the world. But, they didn't. They let it stay a like that. Only, because superman wanted to be the guy who follows rules. When in reality he is a hypocrite vigilante, who is just afraid of taking charge when the world needs him to. Real Superman ain't a coward. This kind of nonsense thinking leads to things like.
    "the last time you inspired someone was when you where dead" and people cheered for batman. You know why it has quotient of truth.

    You see, your idea is having superman as a guest or a visitor. My idea is having him as family or citizen . A visitor keeps boundaries .a citizen and family member has duties to help the people or other family members if he can. If Superman isn't doing that, then he isn't one of us. If he isn't advancing society when he can contribute. He isn't one of us. Superman has the capacity to contribute . He will. That's my idea.No,contributing to society as a leader in any field like a scientist, engineer, reporter, popular personality .. Etc Isn't becoming a guardianship or dictatorship. Superman is all of those things.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-16-2020 at 02:29 AM.

  4. #364
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What guardianship?Nobody said anything about making superman king or something. Superman achieves the herculean task of making a city fly and there by making it a city of tomorrow. People would want to live in that That's emotional realism. I would love to live in a city like laputa or New genesis. What's so unrealistic about that? Is iceburg a bad guy to try to build a city that swims on water? No, he ain't.
    Such a thing sounds good when you're like 12. But, as an adult, people realize risks and consequences associated with such things, which is why it would be soooooo unrealistic for adult citizens of Metropolis to be like "oh yeah, let's just secede from the U.S. and jump into the sky." That is not how adults act.

    I know that. But, you don't. You made a statement that seemed factual, like "kids love it because it's like our city". When the truth is its subjective. That was the point of my rebuttal.
    I said DC sold it as the quintessential ideal U.S. city. That's true.

    What's with the american, american nonsense?Metropolis would still have roots in american culture and philosophy .it won't suddenly become japanese Just because it chooses to fly.
    How hard is this to understand?? Metropolis is established as a U.S. city and is therefore subject to U.S. laws and jurisdiction. That would mean rocketing away with it would be one of the gravest crimes you could commit. That is something a super villain does.

    Actually, Metropolis was built for superman to have a city. So, yeah! It is his fiefdom. That's the writing side. In universe, superman doesn't give a damn about sovereignty or other nonsense. If he believes he can do some real good or some real change.
    Oh my god, YES HE DOES! He's a superhero. Of course he cares about the laws. Who have you been reading??

    He is a vigilante who decided to take that approach because the city was corrupt and full of self serving jackasses like lex who oppressed the little guy.if US government chooses to be lex. Clark as superman would oppose. Its that simple mate.
    You do know that the majority of Metropolis is actually not corrupt, right? Just because Lex exists doesn't mean they should secede from the country.

    If you are talking about comics. Captain america realised that he was actually causing damage to the people with his war. Superman isn't capt. He isn't a soldier. War would be last resort.He would always go for talks. But, if need be He can and will protect the city from darkseid. Let alone, US government . In the civil war movies, he chose being a fugitive and stay that way than giving up his ideal. Superman can do both.
    Except again, Superman has no basis or standing to exert any authority over Metropolis!! That's a very basic fact. I don't know why that's hard to understand. Superman cannot appoint himself the proclaimed guardian of the city from their own government which has a legal and political right to maintain its control over it.

    US government would be overstepping by not having the consent of the people who have chosen to live in a city of tomorrow . If that's their choice. Government doesn't have a right to say no. Please tell me, you understand that. Its like this if the mutants of America wanted to leave America and create a country. US government has no right to say no.
    Again, you know how the Civil War ended, right?? And, just to be clear, I'm talking about the REAL WORLD Civil War. Not the comic book. This rationale you're putting forth is pure fantasy and has no basis in reality. In reality, there are Supreme Court cases and U.S. laws that basically say that being part of the U.S. is forever. States, cities, etc. cannot lawfully leave the union. But just to drive the point home: You CANNOT lawfully secede from the United States of America!! That is just a FACT!!

    If people want to leave the U.S. and move to India or the UK or Mozambique and become citizens of those countries, then you're right, the U.S. government has no right to stop them. But they CANNOT take a U.S. city with them. That U.S. city is forever part of the U.S. End of story.

    If the rest of the country is not ok with it, they would have to have dialogue. But, if people of Metropolis aren't turned around in negotiations. Then outside city folks have no say in whether or not superman should make city fly and make it advanced. He wouldn't be wrong. Two people just want two different things. That's it. (I am emphasising that a flying city is essentially an advanced city.)
    Oh my god, YES they DO!! It's a part of their country. Thinking anything else is naivety.

    The man and super are one. You can't take away super out of superman. You would be left with nothing and vice versa. He isn't just a man with powers. Powers are him like his smile or any other attribute. He has all the constraints of a superman and faces repercussions of the actions he takes. That doesn't mean he is afraid of anything. He is afraid of people not accepting him, of losing love, that's it. Superman like luffy would have all the limitations of a superman. But, a superman not a man. Your idea of superman is, dividing him into 'super' and 'man', an emphasising a part. Mainly 'the man' part. My idea is morrison's idea/philosophy. He does what every man does on grandeos level. He walks his dog past saturn. Takes his wife to planet namek for dinner. Takes his kid to europa for playing fetch.every man tries to clean his street or helps advancement/development of his city. Superman does as well on whole different scale. No, he doesn't let them stay in relative misery having to face things like diseases, hunger, poverty.. Etc.when and if he can do something about it. He lifts people up. He doesn't see himself a god.Gods don't care about ants.
    Well then I hope he's not afraid of being called up in front of the Hague and the ICC because those actions would absolutely land him there. I am not dividing the "super" from the "man" or whatever nonsense. I'm saying that Superman, regardless of his power, lives in a world with law and order and repercussions. He can't just use his power to do whatever the hell he wants. That's not how the real world operates and if your audience is older than 12, you have present a world with those consequence for your story to have any sort of resonance.

    Plus, I don't think Morrison would endorse Superman just pulling Metropolis into space or whatever.

    You see, your idea is having superman as a guest or a visitor. My idea is having him as family or citizen
    Oh my god, no, no, and more NO. How many times did I say Superman sees himself as one of us??? You think it's fine for a citizen to just be like "Oh, I can do a better job than the government. I'm gonna take this city under my own leadership without any sort of election or due process"??????
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-16-2020 at 10:17 AM.

  5. #365
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Such a thing sounds good when you're like 12. But, as an adult, people realize risks and consequences associated with such things, which is why it would be soooooo unrealistic for adult citizens of Metropolis to be like "oh yeah, let's just secede from the U.S. and jump into the sky." That is not how adults act.



    I said DC sold it as the quintessential ideal U.S. city. That's true.



    How hard is this to understand?? Metropolis is established as a U.S. city and is therefore subject to U.S. laws and jurisdiction. That would mean rocketing away with it would be one of the grave crimes you could commit.



    Oh my god, YES HE DOES! He's a superhero. Of course he cares about the laws. Who have you been reading??



    You do know that the majority of Metropolis is actually not corrupt, right? Just because Lex exists doesn't mean they should secede from the country.



    Except again, Superman has no basis or standing to exert any authority over Metropolis!! That's a very basic fact. I don't know why that's hard to understand. Superman cannot appoint himself the proclaimed guardian of the city from their own government which has a legal and political right to maintain its control over it.



    Again, you know how the Civil War ended, right?? And, just to be clear, I'm talking about the REAL WORLD Civil War. Not the comic book. This rationale you're putting forth is pure fantasy and has no basis in reality. In reality, there are Supreme Court cases and U.S. laws that basically say that being part of the U.S. is forever. States, cities, etc. cannot lawfully leave the union. But just to drive the point home: You CANNOT lawfully secede from the United States of America!! That is just a FACT!!

    If people want to leave the U.S. and move to India or the UK or Mozambique and become citizens of those countries, then you're right, the U.S. government has no right to stop them. But they CANNOT take a U.S. city with them. That U.S. city is forever part of the U.S. End of story.



    Oh my god, YES they DO!! It's a part of their country. Thinking anything else is naivety.



    Well then I hope he's not afraid of being called up in front of the Hague and the ICC because those actions would absolutely land him there. I am not dividing the "super" from the "man" or whatever nonsense. I'm saying that Superman, regardless of his power, lives in a world with law and order and repercussions. He can't just use his power to do whatever the hell he wants. That's not how the real world operates and if your audience is older than 12, you have present a world with those consequence for your story to have any sort of resonance.

    Plus, I don't think Morrison would endorse Superman just pulling Metropolis into space or whatever.



    Oh my god, no, no, and more NO. How many times did I say Superman sees himself as one of us??? You think it's fine for a citizen to just be like "Oh, I can do a better job than the government. I'm gonna take this city under my own leadership without any sort of election or due process"?????? That's a completely childish way of viewing the world.
    Wow! Superman is for kids. Their desires matter. It wouldn't be just 10 year olds dream. There many like me who would want that.Superman exists to tear of the mundane. Not be comfortable with it. That isn't. Like i said, it can be interesting storyline. People choices woukd decide the outcome. And i do believe people will chose better life than being stuck in mediocrity. Superman is meant to lead people into tomorrow.

    You said, kids love it. I said i haven't met a kid that does. It might be US city. But so what? That still doesn't make it unboring,mate.

    You've been saying "crime this and crime that". Guess what Superman is already a criminal. He always was one. He isn't some saint.

    He cares, as long as it serves justice. But, you don't know what a superhero is. do you? You have naive notion of them as some saviour people. But, guess what? A superhero is a vigilante who takes law into their ownhand. Superman is a vigilante who used to jump around with corrupt officers, through wife beaters through wall.. Etc. There were other vigilantes too. Like zoro, the phantom.. Etc

    Are you kidding? Metropolis was corrupt to the core. That's why superman existed. Read the goldenage comics. He didn't just decide to become the vigilante.

    Authority comes in different form. An engineer has authority over the work he does. Superman is a public figure. He can Set forth proposal to the people. Superman can guage the consensus of the people. If they decide they want a city of tomorrow. Superman with the help of other brilliant minds in the city can work to make it happen. He will be given authority by the people or not to make it happen . Their choice. But, superman will always act and work for a better tomorrow. He will always come up with creative ideas and create structures.. Etc. But ultimately its the people's choice. And i believe only idiots would say no to making yourself better than you are.In this case what batman means is, superman isn't man of action anymore. All he does is talk Incessantly with lots of words coming out that has no f--ing meaning.

    I know, how civil war ended. American only stayed united cause they had a just cause. Cause lincoln, like superman believed in the principles, philosophy and ideals of the United States.If lincoln was fight for slavery. The US would and should be in pieces.
    "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

    It can stay united this time as well. But, the city has the liberty to choose what kind of life, it wants. The problem or war only comes if the us government opposes it. If they don't, believe in their own principles . Otherwise, There won't much of a need of a war and detaching political affiliation. Does it? The US would have a flying city as or more advanced than new genesis.

    In which world does the outsiders of a particular place have a say in the matters of that place. The city's matter is city's private business. The city is a entity owned by its people. Right to property is a thing.And As political entity, They can choose the fate of it. If the city doesn't want to be part of US and has the will, fortitude to go through with it. It will. But, that's assuming conflict is necessary.

    Nah! He isn't. Like i said, he is the goddamn superman. He lives in a world of poverty, hunger, diseases, war.. Etc as well. Your point? He chooses to follow laws if it serves justice. Otherwise, superman is the guy that breaks laws that oppress the weak or keep humans from advancing. For instance, being gay was a criminal offence and still is in many countries. Do you think superman will care for that crap? No, he wouldn't. He would absolutely break it. Do you think he would care becoming a criminal? No, he wouldn't. Same logic, if he can give a better life to people he will absolutely put that proposal forward. If people choose him. He would go through with it. He can't do whatever he wants. But, he can do what he can. Who said, there shouldn't be? I certainly, didn't. And i would advice you to quit putting yourself above 12 year olds. They can be quite smart, you know. Superman was for those guys. He is theirs first and foremost. Not ours.

    I will leave that to morrison. He did after all make superman create a whole new world. I don't know if whether that was right or wrong. He also made superman dynasty and a formula that makes others supermen.

    I see nothing wrong, if a citizen believes he can and gets the consent of the people. You know via. due process stuff you mentioned. Who said anything about not having a due process? I certainly didn't. He is the man of tomorrow.That also means his ethics and logic is as advanced . He would heed every critic.Superman can be a leader, if need be. But, i don't think he would want it as permanent gig.i mean, he would get bored. He is the guy that breaks chains. Not the one who makes them.i don't see clark sitting behind a desk and ordering people around. It would be no fun for him.he is the man of action. He belongs in the Middle of it. Clark doesn't care about controlling anything. That's for guys like batman. That guy is an absolute control freak.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-16-2020 at 10:53 AM.

  6. #366
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Soooooooo how about that Legion?? Pretty cool so far I think.

  7. #367
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    Soooooooo how about that Legion?? Pretty cool so far I think.
    Forgive me, for the side track. It's alright. I liked the planet and sci-fi elements . So, the jonxdawnstar thing might be a thing. What do you think? I wish bendis would finally give jon the superman sword. Its biiiiig plot point in supersons.Glad we are tieing back into supersons of tomorrow with damian going rogue and jon going nuclear in the future plot point.

  8. #368
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Wow! Superman is for kids. Their desires matter. It wouldn't be just 10 year olds dream. There many like me who would want that.Superman exists to tear of the mundane. Not be comfortable with it. That isn't. Like i said, it can be interesting storyline. People choices woukd decide the outcome. And i do believe people will chose better life than being stuck in mediocrity. Superman is meant to lead people into tomorrow.
    Most of the readers I know are not 10-year-olds. They're people in their teens, twenties, and even 40s. Now, if you want to market to people in that age range, then you have to at least appeal to their sensibilities and most of them know that Superman can't steal an American city.

    You said, kids love it. I said i haven't met a kid that does. It might be US city. But so what? That still doesn't make it unboring,mate.
    So your solution is to rocket it into space?? Who cares where Metropolis is as long as the stories with Superman are good??

    You've been saying "crime this and crime that". Guess what Superman is already a criminal. He always was one. He isn't some saint.
    There's a difference between being a superhero and literally committing treason.

    He cares, as long as it serves justice. But, you don't know what a superhero is. do you? You have naive notion of them as some saviour people. But, guess what? A superhero is a vigilante who takes law into their ownhand. Superman is a vigilante who used to jump around with corrupt officers, through wife beaters through wall.. Etc. There were other vigilantes too. Like zoro, the phantom.. Etc
    Again, come back to the real world dude. Superman stops those who are flagrantly disregarding law and order and tackles threats the police and regular humans can't. I mean, who's gonna be able to stop Mongul if he comes stomping through Metropolis? Not the police. And yes, he fights corruption and injustice. But there's nothing inherently corrupt or unjust about the U.S. government exercising their natural right to exercise sovereignty over one of their cities.

    Are you kidding? Metropolis was corrupt to the core. That's why superman existed. Read the goldenage comics. He didn't just decide to become the vigilante.
    Again, doesn't justify committing treason.

    Authority comes in different form. An engineer has authority over the work he does. Superman is a public figure. He can Set forth proposal to the people. Superman can guage the consensus of the people. If they decide they want a city of tomorrow. Superman with the help of other brilliant minds in the city can work to make it happen. He will be given authority by the people or not to make it happen . Their choice. But, superman will always act and work for a better tomorrow. He will always come up with creative ideas and create structures.. Etc. But ultimately its the people's choice. And i believe only idiots would say no to making yourself better than you are.In this case what batman means is, superman isn't man of action anymore. All he does is talk Incessantly with lots of words coming out that has no f--ing meaning.
    Nobody elected Superman. He can't just appoint himself leader and say "its the will of the people." He doesn't have the authority because no process gave him the authority. If Superman wants to make a major change, then he should run for office. That actually could make a good story. Because it's real. Not just pure fantasy.

    I know, how civil war ended. American only stayed united cause they had a just cause. Cause lincoln, like superman believed in the principles, philosophy and ideals of the United States.If lincoln was fight for slavery. The US would and should be in pieces.
    "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
    Uh, wasn't just the cause. It was also about law and order. In fact, those Supreme Court cases I was talking about centered around the secession of the South.

    It can stay united this time as well. But, the city has the liberty to choose what kind of life, it wants. The problem or war only comes if the us government opposes it. If they don't, believe in their own principles . Otherwise, There won't much of a need of a war and detaching political affiliation. Does it? The US would have a flying city as or more advanced than new genesis.
    Again, it would be VERY hard to imagine the U.S. government NOT taking a stance against that just because of the scale of the logistical issues alone. It would be more likely that the federal government decides to partner with Superman to build an entirely new floating city that's not Metropolis. That, again, could make a cool story. But the federal government would definitely not be up to rocketing one of their major cities into the sky. That's lunacy.

    In which world does the outsiders of a particular place have a say in the matters of that place. The city's matter is city's private business. The city is a entity owned by its people. Right to property is a thing.And As political entity, They can choose the fate of it. If the city doesn't want to be part of US and has the will, fortitude to go through with it. It will. But, that's assuming conflict is necessary.
    Actually, no it's not. The city's business is only its business if it affects ONLY that city. But when its actions have a larger impact, like say lifting itself into the sky and therefore severely impacting regional commerce, then its an issue for other entities as well, like the state and federal governments. You ever read Supreme Court cases like Wickard v. Filburn or Katzenburg v. Mcclung?

    Nah! He isn't. Like i said, he is the goddamn superman. He lives in a world of poverty, hunger, diseases, war.. Etc as well. Your point? He chooses to follow laws if it serves justice. Otherwise, superman is the guy that breaks laws that oppress the weak or keep humans from advancing. For instance, being gay was a criminal offence and still is in many countries. Do you think superman will care for that crap? No, he wouldn't. He would absolutely break it. Do you think he would care becoming a criminal? No, he wouldn't. Same logic, if he can give a better life to people he will absolutely put that proposal forward. If people choose him. He would go through with it. He can't do whatever he wants. But, he can do what he can. Who said, there shouldn't be? I certainly, didn't. And i would advice you to quit putting yourself above 12 year olds. They can be quite smart, you know. Superman was for those guys. He is theirs first and foremost. Not ours.
    There is a huuuuuuuuuuuge difference between unjust laws that discriminate against individuals for who they are and just the status quo of law and order and exercising sovereignty. Please tell me you see the difference.

    Either way, this is going in circles.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-16-2020 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #369
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    5,844

    Default

    Damian Wayne being Bendis' least favorite Robin was quite evident in this latest issue. "Baby Hitler", eh? Bad enough Bendis can't write Damian, but now having him as someone so awful that the Legion wants nothing to do with him and erases his memories, should tell you enough.

  10. #370
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Most of the readers I know are not 10-year-olds. They're people in their teens, twenties, and even 40s. Now, if you want to market to people in that age range, then you have to at least appeal to their sensibilities and most of them know that Superman can't steal an American city.



    So your solution is to rocket it into space?? Who cares where Metropolis is as long as the stories with Superman are good??



    There's a difference between being a superhero and literally committing treason.



    Again, come back to the real world dude. Superman stops those who are flagrantly disregarding law and order and tackles threats the police and regular humans can't. I mean, who's gonna be able to stop Mongul if he comes stomping through Metropolis? Not the police. And yes, he fights corruption and injustice. But there's nothing inherently corrupt or unjust about the U.S. government exercising their natural right to exercise sovereignty over one of their cities.



    Again, doesn't justify committing treason.



    Nobody elected Superman. He can't just appoint himself leader and say "its the will of the people." He doesn't have the authority because no process gave him the authority. If Superman wants to make a major change, then he should run for office. That actually could make a good story. Because it's real. Not just pure fantasy.



    Uh, wasn't just the cause. It was also about law and order. In fact, those Supreme Court cases I was talking about centered around the secession of the South.



    Again, it would be VERY hard to imagine the U.S. government NOT taking a stance against that just because of the scale of the logistical issues alone. It would be more likely that the federal government decides to partner with Superman to build an entirely new floating city that's not Metropolis. That, again, could make a cool story. But the federal government would definitely not be up to rocketing one of their major cities into the sky. That's lunacy.



    Actually, no it's not. The city's business is only its business if it affects ONLY that city. But when its actions have a larger impact, like say lifting itself into the sky and therefore severely impacting regional commerce, then its an issue for other entities as well, like the state and federal governments. You ever read Supreme Court cases like Wickard v. Filburn or Katzenburg v. Mcclung?



    There is a huuuuuuuuuuuge difference between unjust laws that discriminate against individuals for who they are and just the status quo of law and order and exercising sovereignty. Please tell me you see the difference.

    Either way, this is going in circles.
    So, what? Doesn't mean superman was created for twenties and 40s guys. If that were the case a real mature storyline with superman would have been possible. But, it isn't because superman has innocence to him. I mean, would you read a superman comic with tone like berserk. You know something that has rape, gore, violence.. Etc.You do know you sound like child right.no offence, but i heard it in my head in a childs voice. I mean, " that's not fair. superman can't steal a american city"lol. I had a good laugh with that. Dude, he is superman. Ofcourse, he can. If green arrow can steal from the rich to give it to the poor. Superman can do that and more. I feel Superman can do better if it isn't just for the comics crowd.it's fine if grown-ups love superman but taking superman away from the kids is just baaad.

    Well Yeah! Pretty much. I want entertainment. In fact, i would have wile e coyote to build the rocket for the fun stories part. Get it "this is an imaginary story. Aren't they all?". For a guy who loves superman you seem to want the mundane rather than the imaginative.

    Superman crosses International borders without much permission and does stuff that are iffy. Treason would just be another feather in the cap. You still haven't proven why superman isn't a criminal.

    There isn't. But aren't they corrupt if they stop a city from advancing just because they want total control? Otherwise, they are perfectly ok and superman wouldn't hve a problem. Superman fights people that break law that's true. But he also fights the corrupt structures and even laws that are used to oppress. Superman's conflict is in the middle. Like luffy who fights both pirates and government , superman fights both criminals and corrupt authorities.

    Sure,running for office is cool an all. But, clark isn't that kind of guy. A referendum is much more Clark's style. He wouldn't want to be mayor or something for just an issue.

    Treason-smeason. Wasn't there a hullabaloo about Superman being a world citizen in postcrisis ? Such a shame, he didn't much visit otherparts or stay there. I mean, have superman stay in nigeria, Indonesia... Etc. Have him be learn their culture, problems they face and work solve to it as one of them

    Sure enough, there would be issues. But, this is superman and he has all the resources behind him. If it weren't possible he wouldn't put it in practise. There can also be stories of him creating prototype tech. Also, he won't be alone. Its not lunacy. Why is it lunacy? Its just larger than life. Its biiiig. Its ambitious . Its herculean. Its hard even for a superman . That's why it's cool.

    No, it wouldn't impact much. Laputa has rocks that levitate. Clark has brainiac technology for sharing sustaining energy, food,water..etc for the people. City being in the sky doesn't mean commerce cannot progress. Superman and co. can build other means of transportation and communication which is much much much faster. Heck!commerce may thrive faster.

    There is. But, you are forgetting that the latter can become the former. Any system including law and justice system runs the risk of being tyrannical. In this case, if US government stops a city from advancing when a opportunity is given to them that transformation occurs. Superman won't stand for tyranny. Again, the guy who breaks chains.

    Yeah!it is.i just like more out there stories with superman. You clearly like normal, mundane stuff.

  11. #371
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    A few things:

    1) Mature stories have been told with Superman. Maybe you missed the comic where he murders the Joker after he accidentally kills his pregnant wife. And then he appoints himself god-king of Earth and is rightfully rebelled against.

    2) Offense is taken and I don't appreciate ad hominem attacks. The truth is, he can't steal an American city. That would make him a villain.

    3) No, treason would not just be another "feather in his cap." There's a difference between crossing an international boundary and literally invading sovereign territory. And even if you can call Superman a criminal (even though his actions seem to be sanctioned), there's a scale of criminality. Shoplifting is not the same as murder. Likewise, crossing an international border is not the same as claiming dominion over another country's territory.

    4) No! The government is not corrupt or overstepping their boundaries for deciding Metropolis's fate! At least not in the way you're thinking. That is the government's right because Metropolis is one of their cities!!! If the people of Metropolis disagree with the decisions of their leaders, well that's why we have elections!! They can choose someone else who they believe has the right idea for Metropolis, not have an alien strongman appoint himself as their leader. But again, I doubt anyone would seriously think making themselves into a floating city is actually a good idea.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-16-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #372
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    A few things:

    1) Mature stories have been told with Superman. Maybe you missed the comic where he murders the Joker after he accidentally kills his pregnant wife. And then he appoints himself god-king of Earth and is rightfully rebelled against.

    2) Offense is taken and I don't appreciate ad hominem attacks. The truth is, he can't steal an American city. That would make him a villain.

    3) No, treason would not just be another "feather in his cap." There's a difference between crossing an international boundary and literally invading sovereign territory. And even if you can call Superman a criminal (even though his actions seem to be sanctioned), there's a scale of criminality. Shoplifting is not the same as murder. Likewise, crossing an international border is not the same as claiming dominion over another country's territory.

    4) No! The government is not corrupt or overstepping their boundaries for deciding Metropolis's fate! At least not in the way you're thinking. That is the government's right because Metropolis is one of their cities!!! If the people of Metropolis disagree with the decisions of their leaders, well that's why we have elections!! They can choose someone else who they believe has the right idea for Metropolis, not have an alien strongman appoint himself as their leader. But again, I doubt anyone would seriously think making themselves into a floating city is actually a good idea.
    1)Suuuuure, injustice. A story that has "the day that everthing ended" kind of vibe. Mate, it's not even a superman story. Like dark knight returns, it is a batman story. And read berserk. Berserk never cuts away from the you know, bad parts.Nah! That storyline misses the mentality of superman and only takes into account the power. So it isn't much of a critic of what i am saying. Clark is the guy that breaks chains. He isn't interested in making them. That's bruce's thing. He is the control freak.

    2)dude,that wasn't adhominem attack. I just had read it in a children's voice. I still do, actually. It's funny. Anyways, you say he can't. I say he can. Seeing as, he is superman. I am right.he has the capacity to do so. I am sorry if you took offence.

    3)crossing international borders and entering other countries without permission is questioning the sovereignty of that state. Its the same as treason. Don't tell me he hasn't done it. He has, plenty of time. There is a scale. I would say he is pretty much there. Superman would turn fugitive, if captain America can. There is no if's and buts.

    5)you say they aren't, but i say they are. The government isn't gods. Nobody gets to decide anybodies fate or whatever, except for they themselves . I am not privy to the details electoral.local election's can only bring up local leaders. Just a city has negligible say in the presidential election. It would be brute majoritarianism and bad for the federal structure of the society. The majority and their leader tries to enforce their will on the local populace. Government will be overstepping(if they try) , they would be trying to control things that aren't any of their business. People of the city, their local leaders.. Etc decides what to do with the city. as long as, its not causing trouble to others outside . They don't have a say. Again, you seem miffed that superman is stronger than american government or something . But,i have already told you superman is a leader. But, he isn't that kind of leader. He would rather present his ideas and proposal. Let the people decide. Standing in the election isn't his style, especially for just one issue . He would rather let a referendum decide. Those things do happen you know. Sure enough, they can choose, if a referendum happens . I don't believe they would rather be stuck in present metropolis than the city of tomorrow . Now, you are being lex. I thought he was one of us,why the emphasise on the alien all of a sudden? As for strongman aspect, that's still has been missing for years. I would love that aspect to come back. You know, clark going extramile and working hard for his muscles. Back in the Goldenage, he even joined a circus for a while like dick grayson's parents.Clark and dick have so many things in common. Both their costumes are inspired by circus performers. I would like to live in a floating city. They are awesome. It can even have levitation tech for individuals. I don't know about you, but i would like to fly. Going astroboy would be awesome. I don't think i am alone.

  13. #373
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    1)Suuuuure, injustice. A story that has "the day that everthing ended" kind of vibe. Mate, it's not even a superman story. Like dark knight returns, it is a batman story. And read berserk. Berserk never cuts away from the you know, bad parts.Nah! That storyline misses the mentality of superman and only takes into account the power. So it isn't much of a critic of what i am saying. Clark is the guy that breaks chains. He isn't interested in making them. That's bruce's thing. He is the control freak.
    Uh, you're never going to get a story from either Marvel or DC that doesn't cut away from the "bad parts" because Marvel and DC are large corporations whose comics are still "marketed" to minors (even if those minors are like 17-years-old). So you're not going to have an in-continuity version of Superman ripping someone's head off, unless of course it was from a Black Label-type book. That doesn't mean Superman hasn't done "adult" things. For starters, it's heavily implied that he made a sex tape with Big Barda. Also, a recent Superman comic literally just cut to Lois and Clark in what is clearly a "post-coital" scene.

    So, yeah, Superman is not really marketed only to children anymore. So writing the character as if he is is not good business.

    2)dude,that wasn't adhominem attack. I just had read it in a children's voice. I still do, actually. It's funny. Anyways, you say he can't. I say he can. Seeing as, he is superman. I am right.he has the capacity to do so. I am sorry if you took offence.
    And again, the capacity to do something is not the same as the authority to do something. How many times does that need to be explained to you?

    3)crossing international borders and entering other countries without permission is questioning the sovereignty of that state. Its the same as treason. Don't tell me he hasn't done it. He has, plenty of time. There is a scale. I would say he is pretty much there. Superman would turn fugitive, if captain America can. There is no if's and buts.
    Oh my god, no, it's not. For one, it would only really be a questioning of a state's sovereignty if we assumed that Clark was acting as an agent of another government. Secondly, simply crossing a border is not the same as literally laying claim to territory. That shouldn't require explanation.

    5)you say they aren't, but i say they are. The government isn't gods. Nobody gets to decide anybodies fate or whatever, except for they themselves . I am not privy to the details electoral.local election's can only bring up local leaders. Just a city has negligible say in the presidential election. It would be brute majoritarianism and bad for the federal structure of the society. The majority and their leader tries to enforce their will on the local populace. Government will be overstepping(if they try) , they would be trying to control things that aren't any of their business. People of the city, their local leaders.. Etc decides what to do with the city. as long as, its not causing trouble to others outside .
    Again, it is their business because rocketing a major U.S. city into the sky would have a major impact on regional and national commerce. Like, do you honestly not see the impact that that would have?? Imagine if New York all of a sudden decided it wanted to form its own independent city-state. That would obviously be a huge blow to the national economy, given that New York is the largest city in the country and the epicenter of so many of the country's largest industries. So, yes, it would cause trouble to others outside.

    Then, of course, you have the fact that Metropolis is still U.S. territory. Like, for the millionth time. It is illegal under international law for anyone to just up and steal territory from a nation-state. If a certain number of citizens of Metropolis want to go found a floating city with Superman, they can leave the U.S. and build their own city. Nothing is stopping their physical being from leaving. They are just not able to take the physical location of Metropolis with them.

    They don't have a say. Again, you seem miffed that superman is stronger than american government or something . But,i have already told you superman is a leader. But, he isn't that kind of leader. He would rather present his ideas and proposal. Let the people decide. Standing in the election isn't his style, especially for just one issue.
    So, you're saying he is above our entire system of government? He is too good for the literal thing that we've built our entire society around: law and order? Yeah, again, that doesn't sound like Superman. That sounds like a self-appointed god-king, but it doesn't sound like Superman. I don't know who you've been reading but its not Superman.

    Back in the Goldenage, he even joined a circus for a while like dick grayson's parents.Clark and dick have so many things in common. Both their costumes are inspired by circus performers. I would like to live in a floating city. They are awesome. It can even have levitation tech for individuals. I don't know about you, but i would like to fly. Going astroboy would be awesome. I don't think i am alone.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-16-2020 at 11:21 PM.

  14. #374
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Uh, you're never going to get a story from either Marvel or DC that doesn't cut away from the "bad parts" because Marvel and DC are large corporations whose comics are still "marketed" to minors (even if those minors are like 17-years-old). So you're not going to have an in-continuity version of Superman ripping someone's head off, unless of course it was from a Black Label-type book. That doesn't mean Superman hasn't done "adult" things. For starters, it's heavily implied that he made a sex tape with Big Barda. Also, a recent Superman comic literally just cut to Lois and Clark in what is clearly a "post-coital" scene.

    So, yeah, Superman is not really marketed only to children anymore. So writing the character as if he is is not good business.



    And again, the capacity to do something is not the same as the authority to do something. How many times does that need to be explained to you?



    Oh my god, no, it's not. For one, it would only really be a questioning of a state's sovereignty if we assumed that Clark was acting as an agent of another government. Secondly, simply crossing a border is not the same as literally laying claim to territory. That shouldn't require explanation.



    Again, it is their business because rocketing a major U.S. city into the sky would have a major impact on regional and national commerce. Like, do you honestly not see the impact that that would have?? Imagine if New York all of a sudden decided it wanted to form its own independent city-state. That would obviously be a huge blow to the national economy, given that New York is the largest city in the country and the epicenter of so many of the country's largest industries. So, yes, it would cause trouble to others outside.

    Then, of course, you have the fact that Metropolis is still U.S. territory. Like, for the millionth time. It is illegal under international law for anyone to just up and steal territory from a nation-state. If a certain number of citizens of Metropolis want to go found a floating city with Superman, they can leave the U.S. and build their own city. Nothing is stopping their physical being from leaving. They are just not able to take the physical location of Metropolis with them.



    So, you're saying he is above out entire system of government? He is too good for the literal thing that we've built our entire society around: law and order? Yeah, again, that doesn't sound like Superman. That sounds like a self-appointed god-king, but it doesn't sound like Superman. I don't know who you've been reading but its not Superman.



    That's precisely the point. It's target isn't mature audience. And reallly?? The sex tape issue.that's your idea of mature story telling. Really? It's not mature it's bad. I mean, baaaaaaaddd. It's as bad as some of the older silverage nonsense like robot teacher, lois wanting jorel.. Etc. Yuck!!!! I can't even. Superman shot porno!!! how adult. Dude, that's laughable.

    No, it isn't. But the guys are actively making it hard for kids to get into superman. It is very much for comics crowd. That's not really much of improvement. And teen's are more into guys like wolverine, spiderman... Etc. Superman might not be able to beat those guys there. I believe superman's original audiences need to be respected. That's what i have been advocating for. What is this mentality that, stories should be told with so called adults in mind. comics market is down. Thankfully, They had started publishing things like superman smashes the klan and supersons. Jon is very much my nephews favourite.mine too. And he can't get enough of superman smashes the klan.He loves superman, now.

    It isn't just questioning. He actively doesn't care. It is the same. You can't cross borders without permission whenever you want. If you do you are effectively the states enemy. It would result in same end as treason.

    No, i have refuted that fact.Again,detaching is political affiliation only required if the government tries to butt-in where it has no say and tries to stop it from happening. Problems with commerce wouldn't happen,if they won't try. Otherwise, it will. A city gets to decide what happens to it. As said, transportation and other issues will be dealt with. So there isn't much of an issue. It isn't illegal for the citizens of a place gets to decide the future of the place. Anyone can declare itself a autonomous country. All that's required is
    https://www.livescience.com/33003-ho...tablished.html
    1)its ability to sustain itself without its prior political affiliate and gain independence.
    2)relationships with and recognition from other countries
    3)ability to secure its borders and un membership
    Superman has more than enough pull and clout to achieve all three. If the worse comes to be. As i said, it's only a problem if they have to detach all political affiliation.That will be on the government. If they choose to

    Nah! He just doesn't care for treating law as somekind of line in the stone or worse divine commandment. That's superman. He doesn't care for being ruler or controlling things. He likes freedom,ring any bell!!Again, choosing not to be their ruler of any kind makes him god-king, how? Do you have bad reading comprehension? Letting a referendum decide=/= king.

    You guys, moaned and moaned about Superman not wearing an underwear outside.yet,you have problem with superman working in a circus. That's cognitive dissonance. Hating a superman having hot air for muscles with out any work ain't bad. Dick grayson's suit is heavily inspired from circus acrobats. Flying graysons!! Ring any bells.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-17-2020 at 12:48 AM.

  15. #375
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That's precisely the point. It's target isn't mature audience. And reallly?? The sex tape issue.that's your idea of mature story telling. Really? It's not mature it's bad. I mean, baaaaaaaddd. It's as bad as some of the older silverage nonsense like robot teacher, lois wanting jorel.. Etc. Yuck!!!! I can't even. Superman shot porno!!! how adult. Dude, that's laughable.
    Just because they don't show gore and gratuitous sex doesn't mean that the stories aren't written with adults in mind. Again, many of the stories touch on themes that would kind of go over a child's head. Themes like the line between heroism and brutality (Action 775), like the responsibility that comes with being someone like Superman, and like the fact that even immense power doesn't mean you can do everything (Peace on Earth). Why don't you go poll the average age of Superman readers? I'm sure you'll find that they skew toward adults.

    No, it isn't. But the guys are actively making it hard for kids to get into superman. It is very much for comics crowd. That's not really much of improvement. And teen's are more into guys like wolverine, spiderman... Etc. Superman might not be able to beat those guys there. I believe superman's original audiences need to be respected. That's what i have been advocating for. What is this mentality that, stories should be told with so called adults in mind. comics market is down. Thankfully, They had started publishing things like superman smashes the klan and supersons. Jon is very much my nephews favourite.mine too. And he can't get enough of superman smashes the klan.He loves superman, now.
    DC has content that they market to kids. But the main DC universe comics have long skewed toward more comprehensive storytelling that is more in line with mature readers. Its not because there's gratuitous content, it's because the format and themes are more in line with things adults appreciate. And that's a good thing. Things like the MCU wouldn't have been possible if comics hadn't moved in that direction. Tell me, is the MCU just for kids?

    It isn't just questioning. He actively doesn't care. It is the same. You can't cross borders without permission whenever you want. If you do you are effectively the states enemy. It would result in same end as treason.
    No, it's not because every time Superman flies into a country, he's not laying claim to a part of it. He doesn't fly into Iran and say "Tehran is mine now." Plus, by your logic, many immigrants would be deemed "enemies of the state."

    No, i have refuted that fact. Again,detaching is political affiliation only required if the government tries to butt-in where it has no say and tries to stop it from happening. Problems with commerce wouldn't happen,if they won't try. Otherwise, it will. A city gets to decide what happens to it. As said, transportation and other issues will be dealt with. So there isn't much of an issue. It isn't illegal for the citizens of a place gets to decide the future of the place. Anyone can declare itself a autonomous country. All that's required is
    https://www.livescience.com/33003-ho...tablished.html
    1)its ability to sustain itself without its prior political affiliate and gain independence.
    2)relationships with and recognition from other countries
    3)ability to secure its borders and un membership
    Superman has more than enough pull and clout to achieve all three. If the worse comes to be. As i said, it's only a problem if they have to detach all political affiliation.That will be on the government. If they choose to
    No, you haven't because your explanation STILL doesn't make sense. Again, the U.S. government would NOT BE OKAY with Metropolis just up and leaving. In no world would that just be accepted. What world do you live in?? A city that is part of a larger country doesn't just get to decide everything that happens to it by virtue of it being part of that larger country.

    1) If you pay attention to any historical issue, you will see there's a long history of local governments trying to fight the federal government on a lot of things and losing. Many southern states and cities tried to cling to Jim Crow during the Civil Rights era only for those laws to be struck down.

    2) Regional commerce would absolutely be disrupted for obvious reasons. A major commercial hub literally changing location would tend to dirupt commercial routes.

    3) No matter how much clout you think Superman has, the U.S. no doubt has more and would be able to block both recognition by other countries and UN membership

    Nah! He just doesn't care for treating law as somekind of line in the stone or worse divine commandment. That's superman. He doesn't care for being ruler or controlling things. He likes freedom,ring any bell!!Again, choosing not to be their ruler of any kind makes him god-king, how? Do you have bad reading comprehension? Letting a referendum decide=/= king.
    Oh my god, YES HE DOES!! Clark is still a citizen of this country, subject to laws just like all of us. He doesn't go out and murder people who he thinks are bad, does he? Ergo, he cares about a society with law and order. There's a difference between wanting a fair society and being a plain anarchist.

    You guys, moaned and moaned about Superman not wearing an underwear outside.yet,you have problem with superman working in a circus. That's cognitive dissonance. Hating a superman having hot air for muscles with out any work ain't bad. Dick grayson's suit is heavily inspired from circus acrobats. Flying graysons!! Ring any bells.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 01-17-2020 at 09:19 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •