Feige's Promotion and the impact on Spider-Man

[Revolutionary_Jack]

This kind of talk reminds me of when Disney bought Marvel and some fans were sure that this meant that Disney would take it upon themselves to strong arm Quesada into righting the wrong of OMD.

Disney bought Marvel for Marvel Studios (which made Iron Man and was setting up to do The Avengers making everyone aware that it possessed a warchest of IP to spin stuff out of waiting for a purchaser) and not Marvel Comics. It was Feige who attracted Disney as a suitor, not Quesada and others. Disney simply didn't care for Marvel Comics until now.

Now they have put a guy who ran Marvel Studios into the job and title occupied by Quesada (who got promoted to CCO as part of the deal and restructuring during the Disney buyout, and who in that post has not distinguished himself in the decade he has held that title). So it's not exactly comparable. Feige has explicitly been given Quesada's job.

And Feige has said publicly many times, and Post-OMD, that he admires JMS' Spider-Man. So who knows. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

[Prof. Warren]

Disney bought Marvel for Marvel Studios (which made Iron Man and was setting up to do The Avengers making everyone aware that it possessed a warchest of IP to spin stuff out of waiting for a purchaser) and not Marvel Comics. It was Feige who attracted Disney as a suitor, not Quesada and others. Disney simply didn't care for Marvel Comics until now.

Now they have put a guy who ran Marvel Studios into the job and title occupied by Quesada (who got promoted to CCO as part of the deal and restructuring during the Disney buyout, and who in that post has not distinguished himself in the decade he has held that title). So it's not exactly comparable. Feige has explicitly been given Quesada's job.

And Feige has said publicly many times, and Post-OMD, that he admires JMS' Spider-Man. So who knows. Maybe it will happen, maybe not.

Feige can admire JMS' Spider-Man and not want to reinstate the marriage.

There were many aspects of JMS' run to admire and that can be utilized (surely Peter's Stark designed Spider-suit in the MCU is inspired by JMS' Iron Spider storyline) without touching the marriage.

But we'll see. It certainly will be interesting to watch what happens and see what impact Feige's new position will or won't have.

And technically it seems that Feige has been given Quesada's former title while Quesada essentially holds the same position that he did.

The only thing different is editorial is no longer running creative decisions by Perlmutter. Now they go to Feige.

[Frontier]

You'd think if Feige really respected the JMS run so much they wouldn't have turned the Aunt May reveal into a punchline.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You'd think if Feige really respected the JMS run so much they wouldn't have turned the Aunt May reveal into a punchline.

Those movies are co-productions with Sony anyway, so Feige might have just been looking for a way to slip that in. Remember that Feige never really wanted Tom Holland in that part. His first choice was Asa Butterfield who appeared in the movie Hugo. So the Spider-Man MCU movies aren't entirely his stuff.

It certainly will be interesting to watch what happens and see what impact Feige's new position will or won't have.

That it will be.

And technically it seems that Feige has been given Quesada's former title while Quesada essentially holds the same position that he did.

Quesada has been given a new position called Executive VP, Creative Officer serving under Dan Buckley who reports to Feige as CCO. That's a new position created for him. Generally if you create a position for a guy then that doesn't mean promotion so much as quietly putting him on a shelf in the corner to ignore him. I mean Quesada is now two rungs below a guy who had his job title. Hard not to read that and avoid the obvious conclusion.

The only thing different is editorial is no longer running creative decisions by Perlmutter. Now they go to Feige.

I guess this avoids stuff like getting Art Spiegelman to do an introduction for a specialty comic and then panicking when he turns out to be Art Spiegelman who makes some mild (by his standards) political points.

It also means that Inhumans will be in the corner they belong since Feige doesn't care for them at all.

[Bloxer]

You'd think if Feige really respected the JMS run so much they wouldn't have turned the Aunt May reveal into a punchline.

I'm not sure what's that's supposed to mean.
He can still like and respect the run while doing something different, I'm not sure what kind of logic this is supposed to be, he's not bound to doing everything the comics did by letter.

[Prof. Warren]

You'd think if Feige really respected the JMS run so much they wouldn't have turned the Aunt May reveal into a punchline.

Turned into a punchline and having a funny moment are two different things.

"Turned into a punchline" implies that May discovering Peter identity in Homecoming was ridiculing or mocking the moment. It wasn't. It was a humorous surprise with Peter and May both being caught off guard.

Of course it wasn't going to play out the way it did in the comics. The movies and the comics are two different things and two very different stories were being told.

In the comics, it was the exhausted end of a brutal arc where May finds a bloody and battered Peter in the shredded ruins of his costume.

In Homecoming, it was Peter feeling like he had it all together and was comfortable in his role as a "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" only to be suddenly caught with his pants down (or mask off, as the case may be).

Two different stories, two different reveals, two different notes being struck.

Those movies are co-productions with Sony anyway, so Feige might have just been looking for a way to slip that in. Remember that Feige never really wanted Tom Holland in that part. His first choice was Asa Butterfield who appeared in the movie Hugo. So the Spider-Man MCU movies aren't entirely his stuff.

While Butterfield may have been Feige's first choice, it's ridiculous to think that he's anything but thrilled with how Holland has worked out.

And I'm very sure that he doesn't consider the MCU Spider-Man films not "entirely his stuff." Especially not for such a petty reason as he initially wanted to cast a different actor.

Quesada has been given a new position called Executive VP, Creative Officer serving under Dan Buckley who reports to Feige as CCO. That's a new position created for him. Generally if you create a position for a guy then that doesn't mean promotion so much as quietly putting him on a shelf in the corner to ignore him. I mean Quesada is now two rungs below a guy who had his job title. Hard not to read that and avoid the obvious conclusion.

If all Disney/Marvel wanted to do was quietly put Joe Q on a shelf and ignore him, they wouldn't give him any sort of position. They'd just let him go.

The cost of retaining Joe Q strictly for ceremonial reasons wouldn't be worth it.

We'll see what happens but Disney could give Joe Q the bum's rush if they so desired.

I guess this avoids stuff like getting Art Spiegelman to do an introduction for a specialty comic and then panicking when he turns out to be Art Spiegelman who makes some mild (by his standards) political points.

I imagine one of the main incentives to promote Feige to this position was to further push Perlmutter out of the picture.

It also means that Inhumans will be in the corner they belong since Feige doesn't care for them at all.

Why do the Inhumans "belong in a corner"? I don't have any particular love for the Inhumans but if someone can tell a good story with them, why not?

[Lukmendes]

I don't like Spidey with excessive tech. I think it works in the games but not something I'd like to see in the cartoons.

The current cartoon only occasionally uses the odd gadget or two and I think it works better.

Yeah, having too much is annoying, but on the other hand, part of the point of Spidey is that he's smart, so he shouldn't become too stagnant with his tech.

After all, after web shooters he made the spider-tracer, which is convenient to tell some kinds of stories since it allows for villains to escape, but not make Spidey look incompetent, it was used to allow Spidey to find their secret base and whatever, so if Spidey were to get other tech, it could be for something that really matters, but doesn't change what he is too much.

I'll admit I dunno what could be given though, it'd have to be permanent enough to be used occasionaly, but nothing too crazy lol.

[Inversed]

Honestly, and realistically, I don't see how Feige would be able to handle personally overseeing the movies, television, AND comics, as well as doing whatever other roles his job requires.

It seems more likely to me that Quesada/Cebulski, will continue doing their jobs and how they've been doing them, the only difference now is that Feige will also be able to voice his opinions to any project he chooses.

So while its very possible it's something he would want, thinking logically, I would imagine "MAKE COMIC SPIDER-MAN MARRIED ASAP" is not on the top of his current To-Do list.

[Bloxer]

It also means that Inhumans will be in the corner they belong since Feige doesn't care for them at all.

Saying Feige doesn't care about the Inhumans sounds a lot like projection, since there are reports of the Inhumans being cast for the Disney plus Ms. Marvel series.
Like I know its cool to hate Inhumans now because the IvX stuff but people should really not assume that's how Feige feels about them.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And I'm very sure that he doesn't consider the MCU Spider-Man films not "entirely his stuff." Especially not for such a petty reason as he initially wanted to cast a different actor.

The MCU Spider-Man is quite different from the way the other characters were introduced into the MCU. In the case of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Guardians...Feige had total freedom to envision how they fit in and what they did. If you notice those stories and movies tend to be quite standalone things. Black Panther (the movie which won Feige his first Oscar nomination) doesn't have MCU elements until the post-credits scene with Bucky.

So I think if Feige had more of a free hand he would have made MCU Spider-Man a little more standalone and separate and not so much of an Iron Man sub-franchise. Not that I am blaming Sony per se...they had to reboot very quick and they thought tying Spider-Man to Iron Man and getting RDJ (highest paid actor of the franchise) on board might be a way to get everyone interested...but the result is a compromise. As it is he was stuck with rebooting Spider-Man for a third time, he was stuck with a totally unprecedented two-studio collaboration deal, he needed to work with Sony who mostly called the shots on casting. It'll be different from how Feige introduces the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into the MCU.

If all Disney/Marvel wanted to do was quietly put Joe Q on a shelf and ignore him, they wouldn't give him any sort of position. They'd just let him go.

The cost of retaining Joe Q strictly for ceremonial reasons wouldn't be worth it.

We'll see what happens but Disney could give Joe Q the bum's rush if they so desired.

For all we know, this is a way of allowing Quesada a "Graceful exit" in a couple of years. Quesada has been associated with Perlmutter, having faithfully carried out all of his whims (from downplaying the X-Men in favor of Inhumans, forming the Creative Committee at Perlmutter's insistence and so on), so it's actually useful to have a Perlmutter Whisperer on standby, mostly because Isaac Perlmutter as a majority shareholder can't actually be removed from Marvel completely. Quesada has also been at Marvel for more than 20 years and so, and it might be the case that he owns shares (albeit not in a high enough number) and as a Chief Creative Officer in his own right, there would be rules on how and in what matter he can be dismissed.

I imagine one of the main incentives to promote Feige to this position was to further push Perlmutter out of the picture.

That's the main reason. But Quesada remember has been Perlmutter's loyal underboss in most respects. So devaluing Quesada's place in Marvel also serves them good.

Why do the Inhumans "belong in a corner"? I don't have any particular love for the Inhumans but if someone can tell a good story with them, why not?

Well the point is they should never have been positioned as X-Men replacements, it was something that didn't suit the Inhumans and caused no amount of bad blood against them. If they go back to being minor league weirdos then writers and others can come and make them work.

Honestly, and realistically, I don't see how Feige would be able to handle personally overseeing the movies, television, AND comics, as well as doing whatever other roles his job requires.

Feige I am sure has a team on standby to help him out. And it might suit Feige and Disney to give him something else to pay attention to, so that other MCU producers, such as Nate Moore among others, can step up.

[Inversed]

Feige I am sure has a team on standby to help him out. And it might suit Feige and Disney to give him something else to pay attention to, so that other MCU producers, such as Nate Moore among others, can step up.

That just seems like a bit too much trouble to get a whole new group of people (some who may not have that much experience handling comics), basically just to serve as Feige's eyes and ears, when it might make more sense just to have Quesada report directly to Feige and the latter deciding whatever he approves. It's possible he could be moved out, but it just seems like its simply just a title he's losing and he's gonna be continuing doing his job as is.

And even then on the comic side of things, it feels like Cebulski (as the EIC) has been the one calling majority of the shots, we don't really hear exactly on how much input Quesada has had on any recent developments.

[Hybrid]

I don't like Spidey with excessive tech. I think it works in the games but not something I'd like to see in the cartoons.

The current cartoon only occasionally uses the odd gadget or two and I think it works better.

I think there's a difference between a young character really picking up to a brand new status quo that hinges on a lot of old continuity/characters.

Considering how their current "shared" animated continuity turned out...probably best to just go the standalone route in my opinion.

That was Loeb's continuity, not Feige's. He'll do it right.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

...but it just seems like its simply just a title he's losing and he's gonna be continuing doing his job as is.

That actually raises the question of just what Quesada has been doing as CCO. I mean it used to be that he was involved in directing how Marvel's licenses were adapted. According to this newsarama article that reported it when he got promoted, as CCO, "Mr. Quesada will work alongside Alan Fine, Executive Vice President, Office of the President and Chairman of Marvel Studios’ Creative Committee, to ensure that all portrayals of Marvel’s characters and storytelling remain true to the essence of Marvel’s rich history. Additionally, Mr. Quesada will provide creative oversight of all areas of Marvel’s business including theatrical, television, publishing, animation and games, while also actively participating in all story and script development for Marvel’s films and animation." (https://www.newsarama.com/5374-marve...officer.html)/

This was 2010 around the time of the Disney-Marvel buyout. A few years later the "Creative Committee" is a total bust, publicly condemned by Joss Whedon and James Gunn among others and a cause for Feige negotiating autonomy from Perlmutter and those who served under him (Quesada included). A few years later, the Netflix shows diminish as a result of Disney Plus. Now Feige is the one in charge of TV, Animation and other stuff and so on. I guess Quesada will still be around to offer his opinion and so on. But in terms of his opinion actually going to a level of judgment. That doesn't seem to be the case.

So I actually do think it's unlikely that Quesada now has the same job he had before, only title has changed. His influence has obviously diminished.

And even then on the comic side of things, it feels like Cebulski (as the EIC) has been the one calling majority of the shots, we don't really hear exactly on how much input Quesada has had on any recent developments.

As long as Quesada was CCO, it kind of felt like Editors-In-Chief were toeing his line. Quesada is unique in that Editors in Chief before him -- Shooter, Defalco, Harras -- were ones who left in disgrace, outright fired and so on. Quesada actually got promoted. And after him Editors in Chief weren't really powerful anymore. Axel Alonso largely continued picking up after Quesada and when he got fired, Quesada actually served as EIC again until Cebulski got hired and Cebulski said that Quesada was the one who talked to him about what to do...so there's a sense professionally that Quesada was the Over-EIC.

Maybe with Feige around, EIC will be allowed to step away from Joe Q's shadow. Who knows?

[Prof. Warren]

The MCU Spider-Man is quite different from the way the other characters were introduced into the MCU. In the case of Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Guardians...Feige had total freedom to envision how they fit in and what they did. If you notice those stories and movies tend to be quite standalone things. Black Panther (the movie which won Feige his first Oscar nomination) doesn't have MCU elements until the post-credits scene with Bucky.

So I think if Feige had more of a free hand he would have made MCU Spider-Man a little more standalone and separate and not so much of an Iron Man sub-franchise. Not that I am blaming Sony per se...they had to reboot very quick and they thought tying Spider-Man to Iron Man and getting RDJ (highest paid actor of the franchise) on board might be a way to get everyone interested...but the result is a compromise. As it is he was stuck with rebooting Spider-Man for a third time, he was stuck with a totally unprecedented two-studio collaboration deal, he needed to work with Sony who mostly called the shots on casting. It'll be different from how Feige introduces the X-Men and the Fantastic Four into the MCU.

Well, no sh*t.

Integrating Spider-Man into the MCU came with a special set of challenges because, duh, Marvel doesn't own the rights and is using him courtesy of Sony. We all know this.

So yes, if Feige had the same freedom with Spidey that he has with other Marvel characters he would have been introduced in a different way. This is obvious.

But that doesn't devalue the collaboration that Feige and Sony have enjoyed and doesn't mean that Feige is, in any way, unhappy with the results.

For all we know, this is a way of allowing Quesada a "Graceful exit" in a couple of years. Quesada has been associated with Perlmutter, having faithfully carried out all of his whims (from downplaying the X-Men in favor of Inhumans, forming the Creative Committee at Perlmutter's insistence and so on), so it's actually useful to have a Perlmutter Whisperer on standby, mostly because Isaac Perlmutter as a majority shareholder can't actually be removed from Marvel completely. Quesada has also been at Marvel for more than 20 years and so, and it might be the case that he owns shares (albeit not in a high enough number) and as a Chief Creative Officer in his own right, there would be rules on how and in what matter he can be dismissed.

Or, Disney/Marvel feel like Quesada has earned his keep and are happy to keep him around.

That's the main reason. But Quesada remember has been Perlmutter's loyal underboss in most respects. So devaluing Quesada's place in Marvel also serves them good.

No, it doesn't. Of course Quesada has been a loyal underboss, he's been Perlmutter's employee. It was his job to serve the needs and wishes of his superior in the company. That doesn't cast Quesada in a bad light. Feige would expect Quesada to show him the same respect. No one wants to think they have an employee who's potentially going to undermine them for the purposes of their own personal agendas.

Feige I am sure has a team on standby to help him out. And it might suit Feige and Disney to give him something else to pay attention to, so that other MCU producers, such as Nate Moore among others, can step up.

Feige doesn't need a team. There's already an established team in place at Marvel publishing. They just have to report to him and keep him in the loop.

[Frontier]

I'm not sure what's that's supposed to mean.
He can still like and respect the run while doing something different, I'm not sure what kind of logic this is supposed to be, he's not bound to doing everything the comics did by letter.

Considering he said that he explicitly wanted to adapt that moment in the movies, it does kind of stand out to me.

Yeah, having too much is annoying, but on the other hand, part of the point of Spidey is that he's smart, so he shouldn't become too stagnant with his tech.

After all, after web shooters he made the spider-tracer, which is convenient to tell some kinds of stories since it allows for villains to escape, but not make Spidey look incompetent, it was used to allow Spidey to find their secret base and whatever, so if Spidey were to get other tech, it could be for something that really matters, but doesn't change what he is too much.

I think that's better showcased by showing him outstmarting his villains or coming up with clever ideas on the fly then coming up with a new gadget of the week, in my opinion.

I can't think of a great Spidey fight that I feel would have been better with an onslaught of new gadgets or tools.

Turned into a punchline and having a funny moment are two different things.

"Turned into a punchline" implies that May discovering Peter identity in Homecoming was ridiculing or mocking the moment. It wasn't. It was a humorous surprise with Peter and May both being caught off guard.

When contrasting it with the actual moment itself it does kind of come off like turning what should be a serious and major moment into a joke.

In the comics, it was the exhausted end of a brutal arc where May finds a bloody and battered Peter in the shredded ruins of his costume.

In Homecoming, it was Peter feeling like he had it all together and was comfortable in his role as a "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" only to be suddenly caught with his pants down (or mask off, as the case may be).

Two different stories, two different reveals, two different notes being struck.

It just comes off as exchanging pathos for a punchline in my opinion.

That was Loeb's continuity, not Feige's. He'll do it right.

I don't know if even Feige can coordinate an animated continuity on top of the movies and TV shows unless he has some kind of showrunner organizing it, but last time we got Man of Action for that and it didn't turn out well.