X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[Rosebunse]

It's hard to know if any human asking to visit Krakoa is an agent of Orchis or another terrorist organization trying to kill the mutants of Krakoa. It could be a new Omega Sentinel that will activate as soon as it touches land in Krakoa.

When one race is actively funding and supporting your extermination you pretty much have to take all precautions possible.

I get that some people don't understand, but technically even with all the peace agreements Krakoa is in a state of war because they are under constant attack attempts on mutants world wide. They just raided a base where 20 mutant children had been captured for experimentation and execution.

I am sure at some point we will find out if there is a VISA process for visiting family and friends on Krakoa.

But is this really how you build a nation? Is this really how you set things up?

I mean, in this issue, you have a kid who seems to really not like humans. It's rather understandable, sure, but is it a good idea? What do you do about a whole generation of mutants who not only fear humans, but sort of hate them too?

[tuck frump]

By the time Schism happened Utopia was only inhabited by the XMen and their wards. Before that more mutants were shown on the island during Bastions assault but no humans. Im not sure Mayor Sadie ever set foot on Utopia.

I really dont see the point in gentrifying Krakoa.

[JKtheMac]

Emmas school in the Snow Valley had human students and mutant students well before the Xavier Academy

Because Emma is a humanitarian, who is concerned for the well-being of students and a decent human being generally. Peace.

[Killerbee911]

It's hard to know if any human asking to visit Krakoa is an agent of Orchis or another terrorist organization trying to kill the mutants of Krakoa. It could be a new Omega Sentinel that will activate as soon as it touches land in Krakoa.

When one race is actively funding and supporting your extermination you pretty much have to take all precautions possible.

I get that some people don't understand, but technically even with all the peace agreements Krakoa is in a state of war because they are under constant attack attempts on mutants world wide. They just raided a base where 20 mutant children had been captured for experimentation and execution.

I am sure at some point we will find out if there is a VISA process for visiting family and friends on Krakoa.

But we already know that mutants can leave the island own and property and humans can stay in habitats.

[Veitha]

But is this really how you build a nation? Is this really how you set things up?

I mean, in this issue, you have a kid who seems to really not like humans. It's rather understandable, sure, but is it a good idea? What do you do about a whole generation of mutants who not only fear humans, but sort of hate them too?

I think it is hard to compare the building of Krakoa as a nation to a real world thing, mainly because of the many complications that mutants have to face and the endless killing/plotting against them.

Either way, I didn't like the way they are portraying humans to the mutant children. They should know better than not be on their [human's] level.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

none of the crimes you list are more associated with it than so called normal sexuality.

Haha! That's where they get you! Polygamy is as baseline heterosexual as it gets. It's for the most part a power fantasy forced by a male on his female partners. The dynamic is soooo skewed that it--it suddenly occurs to me as I'm writing this that the Jean/Logan/Scott thing is actually the physical opposite of what I've been complaining about, and I don't have the wherewithal to really understand a woman choosing to be with two dudes, so I'm a quietly back out now.

[zinderel]

The history of polygamy in the modern world is strongly associated with rape. Child brides, extremist cults, women held captive in basements. That bias exists for reasons beyond a healthy disdain for libertinism, and apart from so-called puritanical prudishness.

Just because there is a tiny minority that willingly chooses to engage in it doesn't mean a sensible person shouldn't be skeptical of the majority, just as the existence of legalized prostitution doesn't mean that that occupation isn't rife with human misery caused by violence, drug addiction, and human trafficking even in countries where sex for sale isn't illegal.

Polyamory is not polygamy. Anyone not understanding that simply hasn’t bothered to do any reading or talking to polyamorous people, and has no interest in understanding the distinction, and therefore, their opinion doesn’t matter in light of reality.

Polyamory is adult human beings entering into an equitable arrangement of equals based on mutual trust, respect and desire.

Polygamy is one man having multiple wives who are either little better than slaves (Fundamentalist Mormonism, for example) or don’t know about one another because the husband is a crappy human being. The power dynamics are very, very different, and mixing the two is offensive as hell to people in polyamorous relationships.

[Tycon]

Sadly, it often does take seeing a thing represented by fictional characters to help some people recognize the inherent humanity in the real life people they demonize freely.

Sadly, I don’t think Marvel will ever fully make what’s happening between the characters explicit. So are we even gonna get the chance to have humanizing polyamory when the most than can be done is writing strong hints in a Sinister gossip mag? Then again, there was that cover with Scott and Emma that might explain stuff.

I'm sorry Tycon
It really wasn't my intention to offend you or say polyamory is something bad. It is a totaly valid way of love (just not mine)
Sorry again

Don’t worry about it, it’s fine. It’s great to be passionate about those characters, but demonizing RL concepts because of it is shitty but I’m sure you weren’t trying to imply anything more than just not wanting it for Jean.

Yep.

It's been pretty disheartening to read, actually.
I would think, as X-Fans, we'd be better at being accepting.

But after reading an entire thread about how Idris Elba can't play Magneto in the MCU, I can't say I'm surprised anymore.

That whole thread was C R A Z Y. It sucks but hopefully people can divorce their bitter feelings about Scemma/Jemma/Jott/Jogan/Scogan happening from their feelings on polyamory. Because seeing comments like “gross poly people” is disconcerting when their problem is they don’t want their fav character with someone they don’t like.

Then again, people on here also co-opt activism if it fits an argument.

Do they though? Jean's biological connections are all dead. Rachel is an adult that doesn't get the multiverse. Scott chose Emma. She does kind of have Cable, but even he is her clone's child. None of these people she has ever interacted with for any significant length of time besides Cable, up until he was 12. Vulcan and the Star-Jammers are hardly connected to her at all. It's all very one-sided. They needed to give Jean somebody in that house to bounce off of. Storm, Logan, somebody.

Cable calls Scott his “dad” and Jean his “mom” and that’s enough for me. As other people have already said, biological connections are a prerequisite for calling someone ‘family’.

What I mean is that the rooms exist literally as just that infographic, which is there simply as a nod to the way a lot of our minds work. It's an in-joke, but it doesn't mean anything for the character relationships.

Re House of X #6: people are adding things that weren't there. You must imagine my surprise to discover that the vaunted smile between Jean and Emma in the issue didn't actually happen. The room graphic is a nod to our interests in the characters' sexualities, but the beers were just about the X-Men not seeing any beef between each other as they celebrated Krakoa.

I could be totally off, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any post-coital poly bed scenes or shared toothbrushes or anything like that.

I feel like if we were on CBR when Claremont was hinting at Destiny and Mystique, you would’ve said they were just gal pals.

I’m not referencing the “vaunted smile” I’m talking about when Emma glanced over at Scott after the fact. Of course we aren’t getting sex scenes or post coital poly scenes, this isn’t a porno and we barely got that with monogamous relationships. The beer scene coupled with the Sinister Secrets and open rooms, that to you just mean completely nothing, are more than enough to make an accurate statement on what’s going on. It’s okay to just say you don’t like it, but covering it up with just “Hickman is trolling” feels disingenuous because it’s clear he’s trying to put some sort of message forward.

[Lapsus]

I do agree with the human ban to some extend, the boundaries havent been tested, until humans seek asylum in Krakoa i dont think that we can give a definitive answer in the matter and at some point they have to going to treat with other heroes.

Remember that they still want to bring back more mutants, how can they start taking humans when they havent even started with the mutants.

If something happen to a human in Krakoa, how the world will react? They will lift the ban at some point and the ban didnt take into consideration human parents, they can go over there according to jean.

Utopia is a bad comparison, it was more a fortress than anything, too small to people wanting to settle down, it was a fucking rock.

[Londo Bellian]

Did anyone think Corsair's putdown of his own self a s a "dumb human" compared to his son and his people, while conversing with Scott, feel sort of forced narrative-wise?

Like when I read it I hear Cary Elwes' character Major Forbes from "Glory" (1989) going "Well I is sorry, mas'sa. You be the boss-man now and all us chill'ins must learn your ways," except it's not sarcastic but sincere.

[SchismOfMadroces]

The minute mutants ask for some boundaries and proclaim something they created themselves is just for them, everybody wants to be involved. The real life parallels are incredibly funny.

Seriously. The argument that humans should be on Krakoa's mainland remind of the (likely fictitious) story of the Marine in the DMV who said he gets to wear his baseball cap with the corps logo in his license photo because the guy in front of him got to wear his turban for his. It's some weird bastard child of FOMO and entitlement.

Also, let's not forget Doug's reminder; Krakoa is not property. If he says some people are cool to chill on his lush bod but others aren't, why can't we respect his bodily autonomy?

[JKtheMac]

anyway people ignoring chaarcterizations for it to happen is bad and just force it into readers from nowhere

It’s only hinted at. Nobody is forcing anything.

If I want to assume that Cyclops and Logan have finally kissed and made up then I can. If I want to project years of sexual tension between two uptight guys who couldn’t acknowledge their feelings for each other and by a process of transference placed that onto their respective relationships with the woman in their lives I can.

You can happily turn a blind eye to the small and probably mostly unnoticed references. There is no definitive proof that Cyclops was running his hand over Logan’s abdomen.

[Fokken]

The history of polygamy in the modern world is strongly associated with rape. Child brides, extremist cults, women held captive in basements. That bias exists for reasons beyond a healthy disdain for libertinism, and apart from so-called puritanical prudishness.

Just because there is a tiny minority that willingly chooses to engage in it doesn't mean a sensible person shouldn't be skeptical of the majority, just as the existence of legalized prostitution doesn't mean that that occupation isn't rife with human misery caused by violence, drug addiction, and human trafficking even in countries where sex for sale isn't illegal.

But this is Polyamory.
Should we talk about the history of marriage?

[Tycon]

Did anyone think Corsair's putdown of his own self a s a "dumb human" compared to his son and his people, while conversing with Scott, feel sort of forced narrative-wise?

Like when I read it I hear Cary Elwes' character Major Forbes from "Glory" (1989) going "Well I is sorry, mas'sa. You be the boss-man now and all us chill'ins must learn your ways," except it's not sarcastic but sincere.

No, I don’t think any put downs of humanity in a HiX-amen comic can be compared to oppressed groups with internalized racism. That was a case of metaphorical white guilt.

[JKtheMac]

Polyamory is not polygamy. Anyone not understanding that simply hasn’t bothered to do any reading or talking to polyamorous people, and has no interest in understanding the distinction, and therefore, their opinion doesn’t matter in light of reality.

Polyamory is adult human beings entering into an equitable arrangement of equals based on mutual trust, respect and desire.

Polygamy is one man having multiple wives who are either little better than slaves (Fundamentalist Mormonism, for example) or don’t know about one another because the husband is a crappy human being. The power dynamics are very, very different, and mixing the two is offensive as hell to people in polyamorous relationships.

Indeed I am glad you went there because I was gearing up for a lecture I really didn’t want to make.