View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  • ★★★★★

    82 32.93%
  • ★★★★

    84 33.73%
  • ★★★

    55 22.09%
  • ★★

    18 7.23%
  • 10 4.02%
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  1. #1216
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And as a Jean fan. I draw her ALL the time because i LOVES me some Jean. I think you make her boring in how you see her. When i look at Jean through your eyes I am bored with her. That's not to say there is something inherently wrong with how you see her it's just not a Jean i can get behind. I love fiery JEan, I love Jean that wants what she wants, i love decisive Jean, I love when Jean lets that primal side of her out and i love that Jean is suppose to be a character of passion and compassion. So while there are times i personally may be like what is she thinking?

    I don't want a Jean that's a hypocrite, that fakes compassion because she only gives it to those she likes. You may not like emma's past and feel it's a retcon but i don't think Jean as i personally see her would feel that way. I think Jean would understand Emma's past abuse, I think Jean would understand having feelings for someone you can't have, I think Jean having the memories of Phoenix would know how one second can change everything and not just be bitter all the time. I can see a world where Scott and Jean are so confident in their love for each other they would be okay with bringing in a third or another couple. I can also see how two people who have been together since teens can admit they want to be together but want to try more without losing that connection. It may not work for me, but it's what makes characters complex.
    if you think mono is boring that is with you.

    Let's get this straight: Jean doesn't like Sabertooth and still has badblood for him when he never did anything wrong. Emma goes back to Dark phoenix trauma, abusing Scott while he is on therapy and then the cheating, all these years calling Jean's names.
    Now this is boring, being friends with someone that only ever caused you pain.
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  2. #1217
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    There was a story in between: it was revealed that Scott never did anything wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Didn't they found the truth about it and Storm changed his mind. I knwo that sje was talking about him fondly in Gold or something similar.
    How the hell would Scott would know about the DoX retcon/secret funeral or whatever the hell Ororo was whining about during Gold? The guy gets back from the dead and his first order his business is to honor the people who basically did everything they could to publicly destroy the very idea of him only to conveniently change their tune once it was convenient to do so. Nobody's that forgiving, lol. Point is, character beats that make no sense are hardly a Hickman exclusive.

    Anyway. What we did get from this week's issue, though is that Scott would clearly rather hang out with Ororo or Lorna than Jean. The guy was joking about being terrible company to Jean in HoX/PoX. Dude totally sounds like an ex who still totally loves the crap out of his/her ex and is totally down for sexy times, but doesn't actually want to be with them anymore in a 'Happily Ever After' capacity. In that particular context, yeah, it totally makes sense for Scott to not give a crap about Jean and Logan banging while he's doing the dishes.

    That being said, yeah, it's totally lame and lazy we'll only get the odd flashback to flesh out such repositioning, but that's the hand we're being dealt. Might as well embrace it and see how far Hickman/Editorial are willing to take this game of chicken.

  3. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    if you think mono is boring that is with you.

    Let's get this straight: Jean doesn't like Sabertooth and still has badblood for him when he never did anything wrong. Emma goes back to Dark phoenix trauma, abusing Scott while he is on therapy and then the cheating, all these years calling Jean's names.
    Now this is boring, being friends with someone that only ever caused you pain.
    Who said they had to be friends? Your assuming again. Are side pieces the best buddies of the spouse of the person their with? I'm going to need a scene posted where Jean is all "emma you truly are the best and flawless" Because i don't get where this friend thing is coming from.

    And i do think resentful, bitter, and small is boring. Why would Jean have a problem being in the same room with emma? I'm sorry but if i'm THAT person there is no basic person out there that is going to get my goat and that's what Jean comes off as to me in HOX.

    It has been subtle but Emma has to try at everything. Emma is presented as ally of mutants. Emma is shown as a means to an end. Her power in Krakoa given to her by her ability to barter, be below moral standards, and past connections.

    Jean in this on the other hand has come off as a hero of Krakoa. Family to the professor. She got her seat because Xavier wanted her to have it. When Emma was trying to silence Sabretooth Jean just so casually muzzles him. You don't think across the table that could be seen as embarassing for Emma. Like why are you here other than the fact that your a snake in the ground. This young girl just showed you up. I'm surprised Sinsiter didn't laugh but Naruto taught me to read between the lines. lol

    You look at these literal moments but can't see the subtly of how in the myth of X-men Jean is being set up so nicely and treated quite well.
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  4. #1219
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    How the hell would Scott would know about the DoX retcon/secret funeral or whatever the hell Ororo was whining about during Gold? The guy gets back from the dead and his first order his business is to honor the people who basically did everything they could to publicly destroy the very idea of him only to conveniently change their tune once it was convenient to do so. Nobody's that forgiving, lol. Point is, character beats that make no sense are hardly a Hickman exclusive.

    Anyway. What we did get from this week's issue, though is that Scott would clearly rather hang out with Ororo or Lorna than Jean. The guy was joking about being terrible company to Jean in HoX/PoX. Dude totally sounds like an ex who still totally loves the crap out of his/her ex and is totally down for sexy times, but doesn't actually want to be with them anymore in a 'Happily Ever After' capacity. In that particular context, yeah, it totally makes sense for Scott to not give a crap about Jean and Logan banging while he's doing the dishes.

    That being said, yeah, it's totally lame and lazy we'll only get the odd flashback to flesh out such repositioning, but that's the hand we're being dealt. Might as well embrace it and see how far Hickman/Editorial are willing to take this game of chicken.
    Honestly, my take on Scott in this issue is that he is....well happy, maybe too happy, but finally at some sort of peace with himself. Of course a part of me thinks that this whole family gathering was frankly kind of weird and too easy going for my liking, but i can't tell if i'm supposed to be uncomfortable or if is just Hickman style (so far i'm leaning a bit more to the later).
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  5. #1220
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Honestly, my take on Scott in this issue is that he is....well happy, maybe too happy, but finally at some sort of peace with himself. Of course a part of me thinks that this whole family gathering was frankly kind of weird and too easy going for my liking, but i can't tell if i'm supposed to be uncomfortable or if is just Hickman style (so far i'm leaning a bit more to the later).
    NuXavier was screwing around with x-folks' brains so they'd be "happier" during Soule's AXM. Just sayin'.

    Also, there was that insane 'Let's parade around naked in front of our ex-charges/students because Chuck's feeling moar dramatic than usual over x-folks being resurrected' bit, lol.

  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    How the hell would Scott would know about the DoX retcon/secret funeral or whatever the hell Ororo was whining about during Gold? The guy gets back from the dead and his first order his business is to honor the people who basically did everything they could to publicly destroy the very idea of him only to conveniently change their tune once it was convenient to do so. Nobody's that forgiving, lol. Point is, character beats that make no sense are hardly a Hickman exclusive.

    Anyway. What we did get from this week's issue, though is that Scott would clearly rather hang out with Ororo or Lorna than Jean. The guy was joking about being terrible company to Jean in HoX/PoX. Dude totally sounds like an ex who still totally loves the crap out of his/her ex and is totally down for sexy times, but doesn't actually want to be with them anymore in a 'Happily Ever After' capacity. In that particular context, yeah, it totally makes sense for Scott to not give a crap about Jean and Logan banging while he's doing the dishes.

    That being said, yeah, it's totally lame and lazy we'll only get the odd flashback to flesh out such repositioning, but that's the hand we're being dealt. Might as well embrace it and see how far Hickman/Editorial are willing to take this game of chicken.
    Part of it it imo is also hickman not trying to lock in future writers with his specific narrative. While he may be giving an overall story he is leaving a lot of breathing room for people who get books to go their own way within this new world. I think it's fair if it's not something he is going to devote a lot of time to he leave it open enough that a writer who wants to give it a shot has a chance. Both Jean and Logan are in X-force.
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  7. #1222
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    How the hell would Scott would know about the DoX retcon/secret funeral or whatever the hell Ororo was whining about during Gold? The guy gets back from the dead and his first order his business is to honor the people who basically did everything they could to publicly destroy the very idea of him only to conveniently change their tune once it was convenient to do so. Nobody's that forgiving, lol. Point is, character beats that make no sense are hardly a Hickman exclusive.

    Anyway. What we did get from this week's issue, though is that Scott would clearly rather hang out with Ororo or Lorna than Jean. The guy was joking about being terrible company to Jean in HoX/PoX. Dude totally sounds like an ex who still totally loves the crap out of his/her ex and is totally down for sexy times, but doesn't actually want to be with them anymore in a 'Happily Ever After' capacity. In that particular context, yeah, it totally makes sense for Scott to not give a crap about Jean and Logan banging while he's doing the dishes.

    That being said, yeah, it's totally lame and lazy we'll only get the odd flashback to flesh out such repositioning, but that's the hand we're being dealt. Might as well embrace it and see how far Hickman/Editorial are willing to take this game of chicken.
    but how would Scott know that all these people were defaming him?

    It would make me question why Jean is subjecting herself to this. Seems like a decadent relationship, it is a huge part on relationships know to let it go and know when to get out

    Never saw him wasting pages to develop romantic relationships. Not even on FF he wasted on reed and Susan relationship. It just existed

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Part of it it imo is also hickman not trying to lock in future writers with his specific narrative. While he may be giving an overall story he is leaving a lot of breathing room for people who get books to go their own way within this new world. I think it's fair if it's not something he is going to devote a lot of time to he leave it open enough that a writer who wants to give it a shot has a chance. Both Jean and Logan are in X-force.
    He can't do Poli, so he is hitting to get people talking. it is very simple
    Last edited by spirit2011; 10-20-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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  8. #1223
    Embrace the Fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    but how would Scott know that all these people were defaming him?
    How could he not? Storm set up a rather public press conference so the world would know how much she hated Scott. There's no way that thing wasn't on YouTube. The NaziClops thing was all over the Internet and there's no evidence whatsoever of a single X-Men publicly trying to defend his name.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Part of it it imo is also hickman not trying to lock in future writers with his specific narrative. While he may be giving an overall story he is leaving a lot of breathing room for people who get books to go their own way within this new world. I think it's fair if it's not something he is going to devote a lot of time to he leave it open enough that a writer who wants to give it a shot has a chance. Both Jean and Logan are in X-force.
    Mostly agree, but I can't help but feel Hickman not-so-subtly meant to utterly and completely annihilate any romantic iteration of Jean/Scott.
    Last edited by FluffyCyclopsRLZ; 10-20-2019 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyCyclopsRLZ View Post
    Mostly agree, but I can't help but feel Hickman not-so-subtly meant to utterly and completely annihilate any romantic iteration of Jean/Scott.
    For me it feels like he cleaned up any argument against it if someone wants to go that way. The only reason two people would feel that they could be with other people and still be together and not actually be shown as miserable is if they know in the end no one else matters as long as they come home to each other. Scott left Maddie because Jean is Jean, Scott may have been with Emma and it was what it was but he still wanted Jean. Jean will always want Scott. It's on the other people to deal with it. IMO Scott and Jean have all the power in this relationship if it is that.
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  10. #1225
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson;4640384[b
    ]For me it feels like he cleaned up any argument against it if someone wants to go that way. [/b]The only reason two people would feel that they could be with other people and still be together and not actually be shown as miserable is if they know in the end no one else matters as long as they come home to each other. Scott left Maddie because Jean is Jean, Scott may have been with Emma and it was what it was but he still wanted Jean. Jean will always want Scott. It's on the other people to deal with it. IMO Scott and Jean have all the power in this relationship if it is that.
    How? because of what exists is lots of arguments that destroy it
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  11. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    How? because of what exists is lots of arguments that destroy it
    How so.? You may feel a certain way as a person who read a story but Scott and Jean don't care because history has shown in the end they will be with each other. So you can make any argument you want but to the characters it certainly doesn't appear to matter. Jean didn't blame Scott for Emma and Scott doesn't blame jean for logan. It was the reader who did that, unless i missed a few panels. So in the end Scott and Jean both know they don't blame each other so whatever happens they are okay with each other. That is canon. In all iterations.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #1227
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Who said they had to be friends? Your assuming again. Are side pieces the best buddies of the spouse of the person their with? I'm going to need a scene posted where Jean is all "emma you truly are the best and flawless" Because i don't get where this friend thing is coming from.

    And i do think resentful, bitter, and small is boring. Why would Jean have a problem being in the same room with emma? I'm sorry but if i'm THAT person there is no basic person out there that is going to get my goat and that's what Jean comes off as to me in HOX.

    It has been subtle but Emma has to try at everything. Emma is presented as ally of mutants. Emma is shown as a means to an end. Her power in Krakoa given to her by her ability to barter, be below moral standards, and past connections.

    Jean in this on the other hand has come off as a hero of Krakoa. Family to the professor. She got her seat because Xavier wanted her to have it. When Emma was trying to silence Sabretooth Jean just so casually muzzles him. You don't think across the table that could be seen as embarassing for Emma. Like why are you here other than the fact that your a snake in the ground. This young girl just showed you up. I'm surprised Sinsiter didn't laugh but Naruto taught me to read between the lines. lol

    You look at these literal moments but can't see the subtly of how in the myth of X-men Jean is being set up so nicely and treated quite well.
    HUm? these aren't any subtitles that Jean is being treated any better. Jean is omega telepath and there wasn't anything to make Emma feel shame. Jean just put him to sleep;

    I against Jean being all perfect, ok that it doesn't mean for me that jean won't be in the same room as Emma.
    That means not liking, not being friendly. If Jean holds a grudge against Creed, she should also hold a grudge against Emma.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    How so.? You may feel a certain way as a person who read a story but Scott and Jean don't care because history has shown in the end they will be with each other. So you can make any argument you want but to the characters it certainly doesn't appear to matter. Jean didn't blame Scott for Emma and Scott doesn't blame jean for logan. It was the reader who did that, unless i missed a few panels. So in the end Scott and Jean both know they don't blame each other so whatever happens they are okay with each other. That is canon. In all iterations.
    I can't say Scott was always there for Jean.
    Last edited by spirit2011; 10-20-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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  13. #1228
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    Ok, I found one thing positive to say: the two last pages good. It's smooth and there's emotion.
    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  14. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    HUm? these aren't any subtitles that Jean is being treated any better. Jean is omega telepath and there wasn't anything to make Emma feel shame. Jean just put him to sleep;

    I against Jean being all perfect, ok that it doesn't mean for me that jean won't be in the same room as Emma.
    That means not liking, not being friendly. If Jean holds a grudge against Creed, she should also hold a grudge against Emma.
    So because she holds a grudge against a murderer who recently threatened to kill her she should hold a grudge against a woman who for at least the last 6 months has been trying to uplift and help mutantkind? Well where was her rage for Cassandra Nova in X-men red when after empathically neutering her she showed compassion? Last i remember Cassandra targeted her daughter and killed far more mutants than Emma.
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  15. #1230
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    So because she holds a grudge against a murderer who recently threatened to kill her she should hold a grudge against a woman who for at least the last 6 months has been trying to uplift and help mutantkind? Well where was her rage for Cassandra Nova in X-men red when after empathically neutering her she showed compassion? Last i remember Cassandra targeted her daughter and killed far more mutants than Emma.
    If wasn't for Creed they wouldn't get the pendrive with info about nimrod/mothermold, if wasn't for Creed Red widow wouldn't complete his mission on her solo.
    Everyone get a very nervous breakdown. she hsould treat people equally
    Cassandra would understand what she did wrong and her punishment with some compassion put inside her. I owuldn't say this was a "hahaha you are good and you are free now". understand how bad you ddi really put people throught something bad. Even worse than prison
    Last edited by spirit2011; 10-20-2019 at 11:35 AM.
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