View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  • ★★★★★

    82 32.93%
  • ★★★★

    84 33.73%
  • ★★★

    55 22.09%
  • ★★

    18 7.23%
  • 10 4.02%
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  1. #1321
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I'm just going to come out and say this....

    If you prefer a Jean Grey who holds grudges then you are not a fan of Jean Grey.

    It's like wanting a Cyclops who isn't awkward when dealing with his personal feelings, or a Spider-Man who doesn't quip at enemies and allies alike - it can be done, but it wouldn't be the character anymore.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  2. #1322
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Yes, 3some. OT3.

    PMJF and Jottemma (thanks to the late "Marvel Avengers Alliance" webgame) at minimum for me with Marvel. And on the other side with the Distinguished Competition there is Dickorybabs at minimum.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  3. #1323
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I'm just going to come out and say this....

    If you prefer a Jean Grey who holds grudges then you are not a fan of Jean Grey.

    It's like wanting a Cyclops who isn't awkward when dealing with his personal feelings, or a Spider-Man who doesn't quip at enemies and allies alike - it can be done, but it wouldn't be the character anymore.
    It is weird, I don't know all of the Jean fandom but I think there are like two kind of fans. Some are super nice and love everything and others (not bad) but serious and passionate that can be sometimes a bit aggresive.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 10-20-2019 at 11:00 PM.
    My opinions are my own

  4. #1324
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    Yes, 3some. OT3.

    PMJF and Jottemma (thanks to the late "Marvel Avengers Alliance" webgame) at minimum for me with Marvel. And on the other side with the Distinguished Competition there is Dickorybabs at minimum.
    Why are you so perfect?

  5. #1325
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    If Jean should be mad at Emma then She should be mad Scott.

    If Jean should forgive Scott then she should forgive Emma.

    Keep. The. Same. Energy

  6. #1326
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    By not actively trying to BE perfect, not thinking about perfection at all.

    That said, Krakoa-Jean FACIALLY looks like she's a grudge-carrier. Like Maria at the end of "West Side Story" when she has "learned to hate." Depending on the artist? Or the writer?
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  7. #1327
    Mighty Member ohsnapulon5000's Avatar
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    Monogamy works for some people, poly works for some people, polysexual monoamory works for some people, asexuality, demi duality, there's also just straight up being single, y'all. I wanna see how mutants do evolved relationships in science fiction. It's part of the world building I came for.

  8. #1328
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsnapulon5000 View Post
    Monogamy works for some people, poly works for some people, polysexual monoamory works for some people, asexuality, demi duality, there's also just straight up being single, y'all. I wanna see how mutants do evolved relationships in science fiction. It's part of the world building I came for.
    True, and sometimes monogamists go polyamorous for a duration and go back to being monogamists.

    Krakoa is an advanced nation, monogamy is for mortals

  9. #1329
    Fantastic Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I'm just going to come out and say this....

    If you prefer a Jean Grey who holds grudges then you are not a fan of Jean Grey.

    It's like wanting a Cyclops who isn't awkward when dealing with his personal feelings, or a Spider-Man who doesn't quip at enemies and allies alike - it can be done, but it wouldn't be the character anymore.
    Yes. Jean has negative feelings towards absolutely no one ever because nuance is for dummies.

  10. #1330
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Yes. Jean has negative feelings towards absolutely no one ever because nuance is for dummies.
    Grudges and negative feelings aren't synonymous. She can still be cold, or indifferent, or merely offer professional courtesy, all things less than a grudge yet still showing some level of nuance. Jean. Forgave. Mastermind. Next to him Emma is small potatoes.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  11. #1331
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    Actually it wouldn't cause an uproar because governments have controlled the distribution of life saving drugs that are patented under their jurisdiction all the time. It's not like Krakoa is overpricing their medical drugs, they are forcibly keeping the prices from spiking by controlling all markets and prevent people from using the black market to sell the drugs at a horrendous profit because Krakoa is flooding the black market to prevent overpricing.
    I doubt that, because right now their entire Economy rely on the trade of those drugs, and according to Xavier himself, they absolutely need to build a successful trading of those to stabilize said Economy on an international scale. They can't afford to sell those drugs on a reasonable, affordable scale for everyone, that's not an efficient way to run their State nor a realistic one imo.
    I could hear this argument if their Economy was insular to that of the rest of the world, but that's not the case from what was laid out in HoX/PoX.
    Seizing the black market is both a way to ensure their official trade efforts are not harmed or hampered by external elements AND a leverage to extract mutants living in the countries that have rejected the Kraked initial proposal.
    In other words, they are being pragmatic in ensuring an absolute Monopoly of the drugs manufacturing, processing and distribution. Pragmatic, not benevolent. Which is exactly what Xavier warned the world of, that they were done being generous with the sapiens and would let them pay to get the drugs if they wanted. That's what I call business doubled-down with realpolitik the moment it's used to gain favors for Krakoa (its sovereignity), which is absolutely fine, given every country in the world more or less did the same before, or still do the same at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    When was the last time any pharmaceutical company in the world deliberately price controlled their critical medicines at low cost? Honestly never. Companies are buying up other pharmaceutical companies with approval from US, EU, and other world politicians, gaining control of the patents, and then marking up drugs like Insulin and the Epipen to insane levels because they have a trapped market of people who need those life saving drugs.
    Pharmaceutical companies are into this to make a profit, like most businesses, meaning the money they make goes straight into their pockets or the ones from their boards or whatever.
    Krakoa is a different story.
    The Kraked want to grow an Economy that is both robust and sustainable, and right now, they intend to do that by exploiting the resources Krakoa is generating for them in the matter of those drugs.
    The Hellfire Company is spearheading single-handedly the distribution and shipment effort of the drugs that are being processed and manufactured by the companies Xavier has ownership of.
    That is the building block of their Economy as of now, so there is no way the drugs are being sold at a low cost, not when a cut of the profit is going straight into the Hellfire Corporation's pockets, and the rest is what essentially makes the bulk of the Kraked's Economy at the moment.
    They are not running a charity is my point, which is the stance the Kraked hold from the own admission of their leaders. They are no different than the rest of the world in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    To me the mutant government of Krakoa is being more than fair, they are price controlling their medicines to be affordable to everyone and they are taking steps to make sure overpricing does not happen in areas outside of their jurisdiction.
    Of course you can Believe that, but from what was presented so far and from the words of their leadership, the Reason why they are going after the black market beyond controlling already the official trades is a pragmatic one, not a benevolent one. Which is ok, my point was they are a country no different than others and using the same tactics and dirty tricks to gain what they want is what every other country also do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    A country pays millions even billions of dollars in money into research for a drug or cure Cancer or Aids but is dirty for asking something in return?
    When lives are at stakes ? Absolutely. It takes a special kind of mindset, very cynical and pragmatic, to see life-saving drugs as assets to obtain political leverage for oneself. Which is where Xavier currently is, light-years away from what he used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    How do they make back the money spent to make the cure? How do they get more money to research for other cures?
    By trading the drugs they manufactured? Which is what the Kraked are doing, so I Don't see the point of that question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    People need to learn the difference between asking for a fair return on investment or unfairly holding up something that can help people. I see the problem for some reason feel entitled to stuff, You see it with humans going to Krakoa and now see with drugs. No, you are not entitled to things that you haven't created. Nothing has to be given to you.
    Yeah, no, that's not what I was discussing at all, go back and actually read what I said.
    My point wasn't about the Kraked making money over the drugs they are making and shipping: they litterally have a country to run, so they HAVE to make money from Something and the drugs are a potential gold-mine in that regard.
    My point was about how using the trading of said drugs to obtain political-clout on an international-scale, regardless of the lives that are being put at stakes, make them no different than the other countries of the world… Which is funny given how many times they keep presenting themselves as Superior to the rest of humanity.
    This boils down to this: either countries do business with Krakoa and their sicks can get access to the drugs and have their lives saved, or they Don't do business with Krakoa and their sicks keep suffering and die from their illness. The Kraked are perfectly aware that with their demands, they potentially will antagonize some countries which will lead the sicks there being deprived from those life-saving drugs.
    They know it yet they still did it, because the political gain they would obtain from trading those drugs outweighed the less-savory conséquences they would lead to.
    Of course, they might have relied on public opinions internal to those countries pressuring their leaders into making the deal, but regardless, they knew this would leave people on the wayside.
    Does this make them "evil"? No, that's not my point, again, not even remotely.
    Does this make them like other countries? Yes, it does. They are looking after themselves, like other countries do on a day-to-day basis. Which is fine, and was my point to begin with.
    And yes, I'm saying that even knowing they will try and seize control of the black market for those drugs on an international scale, making them "accessible" even for the sicks living in the countries they are barred from (Russia, Brazil, etc). That too, is pretty unrealistic when considering the scale of the countries who refused the trade deal AND the fact that fake drugs are a plague pretty much unavoidable given the nature of those miracle drugs.
    It'll be interesting to see how the Marauders will tackle those issues but a 100% success rate won't be happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    But if we are talking about morals what is more moral than helping your people? What country again was looking out for mutants when they try to commit genocide via a cure again? Explain why Xavier, Magento, and Moria would prioritize the world over mutants? Especially when making the world helping mutants helps the world.
    Helping people even when they are not YOUR people.
    Regardless of their origins, regardless of their convictions or beliefs. That's what the X-Men are about, they transcend the labels the society have to Promote the idea that coexistence is possible, reachable, doable, as long as there are people willing to fight for it.
    At some point, you need to realize that no matter how much you want them to distance themselves from the rest of the world, to isolate themselves on their island and do their thing so to speak, the mutants ARE an integral part of the world. The X-Men are losing themselves into that new set-up, I'd rather they called themselves the Acolytes and shed away for good the name "X-Men" the same way they shed away "Xavier's dream" during HoX/PoX, that would be much more honest and close to what's happening, than pretending that Krakoa's current Policy and internal choices are a pathway toward coexistence with sapiens - it's not. The way they sat themselves up, the Kraked confrontation with sapiens is all but inevitable.
    Last edited by People Of The Earth; 10-21-2019 at 04:54 AM.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  12. #1332
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Could this be the final birth pangs towards reuniting X with the rest of M after years of separate film rights caused so much neglect in the original format of comic books? "Destroy EVERYTHING to CONNECT everything." "DEATH must happen to old existence before it can be REBORN into a NEW existence." Could that be it? A setup to "Marvel Vs X-Men" before a new multimedia reboot of restored franchise relations? Could this be why Feige is now Chief Creative Officer?

    (The links are kind of relevant due to Toei being Marvel's top Japanese collaborator).
    Last edited by Londo Bellian; 10-21-2019 at 02:56 AM.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  13. #1333
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Nope. They are not doing this to nuke the X-Men. This is the new status quo and Hickman is here for the long haul.

  14. #1334
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Never said ONLY the X-Men will get nuked. I mean X-Men and MARVEL might possibly tear each other apart to nothing, to allow a complete rebuild where this on special franchise and the rest of the overall brand are dynamically in concert once more.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

    The Current Hill that I Risk Dying On: #KrakoaNEVERMYXMEN
    "I promise, I'll definitely save you. With my tenth and final life, I WILL PROTECT YOU, MUTANDOKA!" ~HoMoira Kinross Akemi

  15. #1335
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Again, nope.

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