X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[powerpax]

"Haven't been on the Mainland" as in "Haven't been there/ Haven't visited it". English isn't my mother tongue but I thought my wording made it pretty clear. Personally, I see only two reasons why that would be: either they didn't want to go there, or they couldn't. And I doubt the Starjammers would refuse the Opportunity to see Krakoa for themselves if they had it.

They were there for a family dinner with Scott, at Scott's house, on the moon. Right now that is all the context we have. We do not know that Corsair or the Starjammers are barred from the mainland.

[JKtheMac]

Now, now, we know that clones have souls. We just aren't 100% sure they're always the right ones.

I think you will find that the Krakoa resurrection process transcends cloning. So they are not actually clones. We also know Hickman is very clearly pointing out the problem of having two bodies and only one soul. A problem previously highlighted by Inferno, a story he directly references when Storm asks how she knows Jean is herself.

Sounds like the set-up for an exploration of this very issue to me.

[RachelGrey]

They were there for a family dinner with Scott, at Scott's house, on the moon. Right now that is all the context we have. We do not know that Corsair or the Starjammers are barred from the mainland.

I agree, right now there isn't any evidence that humans aren't allowed on Krakoa, I think it's more you have to be approved to visit Krakoa because this is place where mutants are supposed to feel safe from human persecution. Heck look at those kids Magneto and the X-Men just rescued they were so happy to be saved from the humans that obviously intended to kill them eventually.

Valerie Cooper would not want to visit Krakoa, she would be bombarded with people challenging her for being the architect of the O.N.E., hell they might actually charge Valerie Cooper with war crimes and put her before court for trial. There are a lot of humans who have been directly complicit or even aligned with the people trying to exterminate mutants. If they visited the island they could be charged with war crimes.

I wonder if X-Force or another group, like X-Corp, might operate like Mossad did for a long time and hunt former agents of the various mutant hunting government groups for trial for war crimes and genocide.

[People Of The Earth]

We have a clear answer on this now, I was listening to Battle of the Atom and the excalibur artist said Brian braddock isn't allowed on Krakoa. We have seen that probably Corsair wasn't allowed in either. Shogo is probably allowed in only in a habitat as well. I don't know why some fans keep seeing this as some sort big deal that humans can't go on Krakoa. I think solution is the habitats the human family of mutants can stay in the habitats. From what we seen the the Habitats can be huge.

Now, THAT is what I consider a real contribution. So the sapiens aren't allowed on Krakoa Mainland? Which is what Magneto said to those UN ambassadors back in HoX #1? So this confirms what I and other posters were fearing. Kind of sad that we were right on this front, given the grim nature of what it entails for the X-Men and the drive for coexistence being essentially dead now. They gave up on it.

God forbid the species that continues to actively manufacture Sentinels and Sentinel-adjacent robots feel unwelcome in mutant spaces after turning the last few into parking lots. Why doesn't Wakanda get this smoke?

Judging a "species" on the deeds of its worst individuals is pointless and dangerous. With that reasoning, why wouldn't the sapien not do the same with mutants? Brush off the whole lot of mutantkind because of its Sabertooth and Apocalypse-kind of individuals… That's short-sighted af.

[tuck frump]

Orchis are literally presenting themselves, and the nrration treats them like that as well, as humanity's defenders. Why wouldnt the XMen treat them as such? Where are all those great mutant loving humans while Orchis are abducting and experimenting on kids?

The "humans should be allowed on Krako" thing is so funny I hope people championing that stance are advocating for the abolition of all national borders irl. Why would humans be entitled to access on Krakoa, a mutant country made by mutants for mutants who stands on a living mutant island who we've been said dont want humans around.

[powerpax]

Judging a "species" on the deeds of its worst individuals is pointless and dangerous. With that reasoning, why wouldn't the sapien not do the same with mutants? Brush off the whole lot of mutantkind because of its Sabertooth and Apocalypse-kind of individuals… That's short-sighted af.

'Why wouldn't they?' It's what they've done for years.

[jwatson]

The ‘quicker’ line and the response was related to dealing with the ape guards. As there was evidence of time travel and or ‘atemporal development’ so at least information travelling in time, it doesn’t prove one of the diplomats is involved.

Ahh your right went back and reread he was talking about the apes.

I still think the ambassador is connected though that gods line imo is suppose to be a clue as to whose also involved but yeah, no way to say magneto knows for sure.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Orchis are literally presenting themselves, and the nrration treats them like that as well, as humanity's defenders. Why wouldnt the XMen treat them as such? Where are all those great mutant loving humans while Orchis are abducting and experimenting on kids?

The "humans should be allowed on Krako" thing is so funny I hope people championing that stance are advocating for the abolition of all national borders irl. Why would humans be entitled to access on Krakoa, a mutant country made by mutants for mutants who stands on a living mutant island who we've been said dont want humans around.

Funny ya should mention that, actually; it's that particular point that keeps drawing Brexit-like imagery into my mind. (See, one of the main arguments for that was because the EU did want to abolish national borders which, at the time, was terrifying because of the prominent attacks in France.) However, the reaction to that argument was that there should be the abolition of borders because the idea of isolating ourselves over here was outright racist and xenophobic (I voted against, but that was the general sentiment across the news, online and TV discussions.)

Possibly a bit off topic, but I thought it was interesting?

[jwatson]

Orchis are literally presenting themselves, and the nrration treats them like that as well, as humanity's defenders. Why wouldnt the XMen treat them as such? Where are all those great mutant loving humans while Orchis are abducting and experimenting on kids?

The "humans should be allowed on Krako" thing is so funny I hope people championing that stance are advocating for the abolition of all national borders irl. Why would humans be entitled to access on Krakoa, a mutant country made by mutants for mutants who stands on a living mutant island who we've been said dont want humans around.

Those are the same people who if you step on their front porch uninvited they are ready to lock and load. The main island is a community center where most mutants live you can't just walk onto peoples property and decide to use the community pool or other ammenties like the gym if you don't live there and have proper access. It's fun reading some of the comments though, i feel like i been set back in time to read russian bot posts. lol

[spirit2011]

Now, THAT is what I consider a real contribution. So the sapiens aren't allowed on Krakoa Mainland? Which is what Magneto said to those UN ambassadors back in HoX #1? So this confirms what I and other posters were fearing. Kind of sad that we were right on this front, given the grim nature of what it entails for the X-Men and the drive for coexistence being essentially dead now. They gave up on it.

yeah humans not allowed on Krakoa, it is clear. And i don't think it makes for a good look

Judging a "species" on the deeds of its worst individuals is pointless and dangerous. With that reasoning, why wouldn't the sapien not do the same with mutants? Brush off the whole lot of mutantkind because of its Sabertooth and Apocalypse-kind of individuals… That's short-sighted af.

it is basically the same thing that happened to mutants and how racism works on a society

[The Jeeper 2.0]

I agree, right now there isn't any evidence that humans aren't allowed on Krakoa, I think it's more you have to be approved to visit Krakoa because this is place where mutants are supposed to feel safe from human persecution. Heck look at those kids Magneto and the X-Men just rescued they were so happy to be saved from the humans that obviously intended to kill them eventually.

Valerie Cooper would not want to visit Krakoa, she would be bombarded with people challenging her for being the architect of the O.N.E., hell they might actually charge Valerie Cooper with war crimes and put her before court for trial. There are a lot of humans who have been directly complicit or even aligned with the people trying to exterminate mutants. If they visited the island they could be charged with war crimes.

I wonder if X-Force or another group, like X-Corp, might operate like Mossad did for a long time and hunt former agents of the various mutant hunting government groups for trial for war crimes and genocide.

In HoX 1, Jean explicitly says humans aren't allowed on Krakoa unless invited. She says that they must be accompanied by a mutant at all times and even then its really up to Krakoa itself.

[tuck frump]

Funny ya should mention that, actually; it's that particular point that keeps drawing Brexit-like imagery into my mind. (See, one of the main arguments for that was because the EU did want to abolish national borders which, at the time, was terrifying because of the prominent attacks in France.) However, the reaction to that argument was that there should be the abolition of borders because the idea of isolating ourselves over here was outright racist and xenophobic (I voted against, but that was the general sentiment across the news, online and TV discussions.)

Possibly a bit off topic, but I thought it was interesting?

So you yourself felt that closing your borders to foreigners to ensure your country's safety from possible attacks was sensible. Hmmmm what does that remind me of?...

[spirit2011]

Madelyne was literally supposed to be her own character, her personality was nothing like Jean. All of that was retconned away and her character was assassinated to make room for Jean. How is that not ruining her?.

That is not what happened, the character was suppossed to be Jean reincarnate first. Od course personalities would be different, but impossible for two people look the same without any weird thing going on.
She was a made up character for a specific purpose that changed

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

So you yourself felt that closing your borders to foreigners to ensure your country's safety from possible attacks was sensible. Hmmmm what does that remind me of?...

Not me, personally; more the voting public. However, that sentiment was decried as small minded and racist, despite such context. The general consensus from the more Liberal youth, such as myself, was that we were stronger together than apart in standing up to such terrorism. Hence why I'm a little confused that Krakoa's being celebrated for a similar thing...? (Not that I don't understand it, of course, just as I understand what decided the vote here.)

[JKtheMac]

Ahh your right went back and reread he was talking about the apes.

I still think the ambassador is connected though that gods line imo is suppose to be a clue as to whose also involved but yeah, no way to say magneto knows for sure.

It is clearly resonant with the gods line yes. I like the way she says ‘wild gods’ which suggests to me something is changing in the future.