X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[Zelena]

In HoX 1, Jean explicitly says humans aren't allowed on Krakoa unless invited. She says that they must be accompanied by a mutant at all times and even then its really up to Krakoa itself.

That reminds me the way women are treated in some countries in the Middle-East…

[jwatson]

Not me, personally; more the voting public. However, that sentiment was decried as small minded and racist, despite such context. The general consensus from the more Liberal youth, such as myself, was that we were stronger together than apart in standing up to such terrorism. Hence why I'm a little confused that Krakoa's being celebrated for a similar thing...? (Not that I don't understand it, of course, just as I understand what decided the vote here.)

You can't blame ALL liberal voices, or the more vocal voices for all voices. Or rather just because a few people decried it doesn't mean ALL people can be lumped in. See how that works.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

You can't blame ALL liberal voices, or the more vocal voices for all voices. Or rather just because a few people decried it doesn't mean ALL people can be lumped in. See how that works.

Well, yeah, exactly! I totally agree!

But I'm still a little confused on the contradictory consensus of here vs Krakoa, is what I'm saying.

[JKtheMac]

So you yourself felt that closing your borders to foreigners to ensure your country's safety from possible attacks was sensible. Hmmmm what does that remind me of?...

Presumably the Atlantic Krakoa would have the potential to join the EU Schengen agreement if they could strike a deal. Hmm something tells me they won’t though. Freedom of movement, almost feels like fiction on days like this.

[People Of The Earth]

They were there for a family dinner with Scott, at Scott's house, on the moon. Right now that is all the context we have. We do not know that Corsair or the Starjammers are barred from the mainland.

Sure, we Don't know 100% whether they went to the Mainland or not. Personally, I doubt they did. And chance are, they didn't go on the Mainland, since apparently according to some other poster, Magneto was stating a law to the UN ambassadors, not just empty words: Brian Braddock was barred from the Mainland because of his sapien status.

Orchis are literally presenting themselves, and the nrration treats them like that as well, as humanity's defenders. Why wouldnt the XMen treat them as such? Where are all those great mutant loving humans while Orchis are abducting and experimenting on kids?

Because the X-Men should know better than consider a terror group racially motivated against mutants for anything but that: a terror group racially motivated against mutants. Not "'Humanity's' defenders". LOL. They are litteraly extremists of the worst kind, so I'd rather laugh than think too long about the implication of your words.

The "humans should be allowed on Krako" thing is so funny I hope people championing that stance are advocating for the abolition of all national borders irl. Why would humans be entitled to access on Krakoa, a mutant country made by mutants for mutants who stands on a living mutant island who we've been said dont want humans around.

Not gonna think too long about the implication of those words either, especially given how many people here are projecting real-world issues on this particular series of comics.

I'm just gonna point out, regarding your whole "I hope people championing that stance are advocating for the abolition of all national borders irl" that :

1. IRL, total travel ban toward one particular group of people (whether based on their ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion) isn't something particularly celebrated at least in my country, let alone practiced profusely. To see fictional characters like the X-Men practice it, and real people support such a stance is jarring.
2. IRL, there's a world of shades existing between total travel ban (what the Kraked are doing in their fictional land) and abolition of all national borders (what you are implying I'm supporting IRL). It's so binary it's laughable. Again, lack of NUANCE all around, not only in the comics but even among those discussing them I see… There are such things as VISAS to allow people to visit family members or friends in most countries IRL for those who didn't know (somehow), a thing that I'm sure is practised by Marvel countries as well.

Bottom line being: allowing sapiens on the Mainland is a far cry from "advocating the abolition of all national borders" fictional or real ones. That's a false equivalency. And that's ridiculous. The mutants have total control over who gets in or out of Krakoa, they have telepaths, empaths, and all sort of other mutants with useful powers regarding security in this context.

[Killerbee911]

Now, THAT is what I consider a real contribution. So the sapiens aren't allowed on Krakoa Mainland? Which is what Magneto said to those UN ambassadors back in HoX #1? So this confirms what I and other posters were fearing. Kind of sad that we were right on this front, given the grim nature of what it entails for the X-Men and the drive for coexistence being essentially dead now. They gave up on it.
.

This exactly why I said what I said but at least now I get to break out my new example. A husband and wife are together. The husband is a violent alcoholic who beats his wife when drunk. She moves to a new house with kids. The husband is not allowed in that house. She talks to the husband in public, allows the kids to see him public, They go to a marriage counselor together BUT she has no proof that he has stopped drinking. So he is not allowed in her house. The husband is the humans,The wife is mutants and her house in Krakoa.

You guys argument is that the wife needs to let the husband in the house. The husband is entitled to go inside of the house because they are married. You wouldn't tell a woman to let her abusive husband who has shown no signs of change into her and her kids safe place. And you and others suggest that what if after abusing wife already the husband calls his friends and tells them to ban his wife from going into place in town because he is can't get into the house. It is only fair that she can't be comfortable either. I don't know how much more clear this needs to be said.

People are free to think about what the want about X-men and this run Hickman is himself basic said he hopes this divides fans so thinkinf that X-men are bad/suspect is intended but this one point though people are dead wrong imo.

[tuck frump]

Not me, personally; more the voting public. However, that sentiment was decried as small minded and racist, despite such context. The general consensus from the more Liberal youth, such as myself, was that we were stronger together than apart in standing up to such terrorism. Hence why I'm a little confused that Krakoa's being celebrated for a similar thing...? (Not that I don't understand it, of course, just as I understand what decided the vote here.)

My bad I thought u said u voted against no borders.

Its one of those instances where the mutants as a minority metaphor doesnt work. Same as when the anti mutant vaccine plot had unfortunate implications regarding the pro vaxxer/anti vaxxer argument. The way I look at it is its escapist fantasy for oppressed groups.

[Zelena]

Presumably the Atlantic Krakoa would have the potential to join the EU Schengen agreement if they could strike a deal. Hmm something tells me they won’t though.

EU is a political project not just a trade agreement. And discriminatory laws don't bode well…

[JKtheMac]

Well, yeah, exactly! I totally agree!

But I'm still a little confused on the contradictory consensus of here vs Krakoa, is what I'm saying.

I am really not aware of a clear consensus on anything about Krakoa. What I do keep seeing are a number of posters claiming those that don’t agree with their specific view are all somehow unified against them with a specific contrary view.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I am really not aware of a clear consensus on anything about Krakoa. What I do keep seeing are a number of posters claiming thse that don’t agree with their specific view are all somehow unified against them with a specific contrary view.

Oh, sorry; I meant the consensus of nationalism and sovereignty being a bad thing irl for the UK, but not Krakoa...ya know, outside of the whole fictional universe vs reality thing.

[jwatson]

Well, yeah, exactly! I totally agree!

But I'm still a little confused on the contradictory consensus of here vs Krakoa, is what I'm saying.

How is it contradictory, your assuming everyone who feels that it's okay for Krakoa to have closed borders didn't think it was okay for other countries to have closed borders. That in of itself is an over reaching statement because it not only takes out the individuals themselves but each particular person's reason for why they voted and lumps and entirety of people together. For instance i believe in borders but i don't believe in building a wall to enforce those borders or blanketly keeping out one type of person because of their skin color but i might feel differently if it was factual that that particular group of people were killing specific people in droves, not only killing but targetting them, that changes the conversation imo.

[tuck frump]

EU is a political project not just a trade agreement. And discriminatory laws don't bode well…

Lmao to be part of the EU? Id say discriminatory laws r a prerequisite.

[jwatson]

Oh, sorry; I meant the consensus of nationalism and sovereignty being a bad thing irl for the UK, but not Krakoa...ya know, outside of the whole fictional universe vs reality thing.

And that too is lumping a group of people in without thinking of the reasons. Maybe some don't want it to happen because they have family in those surrounding countries so it's easier to travel to see them. Maybe some don't want it because they are living a good life as is and don't want to rock the boat. Other people can be against it just on principal. Then you have those against it cause they like to stir things up. Then there are those who worry they may be in a weaker position to get deals with other countries. Just like on the flip side there could be just as many reasons for why so many do want it both good and bad. So your still lumping everyone together like one voice is all voices but it's not the case.

[Zelena]

Lmao to be part of the EU? Id say discriminatory laws r a prerequisite.

I strongly disagree but I have the feeling I won't convince you…

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

How is it contradictory, your assuming everyone who feels that it's okay for Krakoa to have closed borders didn't think it was okay for other countries to have closed borders. That in of itself is an over reaching statement because it not only takes out the individuals themselves but each particular person's reason for why they voted and lumps and entirety of people together. For instance i believe in borders but i don't believe in building a wall to enforce those borders or blanketly keeping out one type of person because of their skin color but i might feel differently if it was factual that that particular group of people were killing specific people in droves, not only killing but targetting them, that changes the conversation imo.

Except, over here, it wasn't ok to want that, even on the basis of security measures. The idea of restricting freedom of movement was what was seen as xenophobic and racist because it was barring us from celebrating unity between our EU neighbours. I didn't mean to lump everyone who voted either way into one collective voice, I was just commenting on what the general opinion in the media and from online discussion was in regards to that particular argument?