X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[AbnormallyNormal]

Honestly, I am enjoying the series so far. Some things I may not like, but it is interesting and I can see where it's going.

At the same time, I can see why some are put off by the whole thing. I'm not sure their concerns should be shrugged off as needless hate. Some criticisms are valid and offer discussion.

Even so, I think enjoyment can still be made.

The one thing I don't want to do is mess with other's enjoyment of the series. Hopefully that's not what I'm coming off as.

Yeah it's interesting to me hearing the different views

I'm not sure of my own opinion but I definitely believe the characters seem jarringly different from "the expected norm" and it's up to Hickman (or others) to, y'know.... ease readers into all of this. Make it feel more plausible and believable.

There are reasons people had been speculating these weren't the "real" X-Men and so on.

I mean, for a long time I had been desiring more ethical ambiguity and complexity in the books and to try to get readers to have to question what is ultimately good or right, to put some thoughts about why are "villains" how they are, is there any validity to it, etc.

So from that angle I think a lot of the responses to HoX/PoX/DoX are healthy and good

But there are of course people really not having it, who can't accept or stomach it, and are either angry at the whole thing like Hickman is ruining their childhood, or just very sad and morose, like this is some sad commentary on contemporary culture in a way

I'm frankly amazed as big a % of the fandom is getting behind this as they are, since it really is pretty controversial to have the likes of Apocalypse, Sinister, and Shaw as leaders of mutantkind now.

For me I suppose I don't really think the X-Men are "bad" they're just more world-weary or jaded. They're separating themselves from humanity but not seeking to dominate or control (or the way some people have reacted you'd think the X-Men are trying to straight-up exterminate humans). Separatism is indeed different from the past ideal of assimilation and "co existence" but as others have noted that could be because times have changed, and real-world political situations have evolved (or devolved) also.

I strongly believe the rise of figures like Trump, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, Victor Orban, and so forth.... China's increasing repression, Putin's hold on power... Modi and his Hindu nationalism.... these things are all part of a "backdrop" that gives this new mentality for X-Men more emotional legitimacy with many readers

[dimo1]

Not an über-expert like most here, as I dropped out after the Austen run, yes I know, I should‘ve done it before, but I read a few HoX and PoX and really enjoyed them. This issue felt a bit bland, Storm out of character, still the concept of Krakoa and the possibilities it provides sure are interesting.
Overall, I often think readers should relax a bit and if they don‘t enjoy creator x‘s run, a few years in creator y comes along and it might be more to ones liking.

[Zelena]

[U]

Yeah it's interesting to me hearing the different views

I'm not sure of my own opinion but I definitely believe the characters seem jarringly different from "the expected norm" and it's up to Hickman (or others) to, y'know.... ease readers into all of this. Make it feel more plausible and believable.

There are reasons people had been speculating these weren't the "real" X-Men and so on.

I mean, for a long time I had been desiring more ethical ambiguity and complexity in the books and to try to get readers to have to question what is ultimately good or right, to put some thoughts about why are "villains" how they are, is there any validity to it, etc.

So from that angle I think a lot of the responses to HoX/PoX/DoX are healthy and good

But there are of course people really not having it, who can't accept or stomach it, and are either angry at the whole thing like Hickman is ruining their childhood, or just very sad and morose, like this is some sad commentary on contemporary culture in a way

I'm frankly amazed as big a % of the fandom is getting behind this as they are, since it really is pretty controversial to have the likes of Apocalypse, Sinister, and Shaw as leaders of mutantkind now.

For me I suppose I don't really think the X-Men are "bad" they're just more world-weary or jaded. They're separating themselves from humanity but not seeking to dominate or control (or the way some people have reacted you'd think the X-Men are trying to straight-up exterminate humans). Separatism is indeed different from the past ideal of assimilation and "co existence" but as others have noted that could be because times have changed, and real-world political situations have evolved (or devolved) also.

I strongly believe the rise of figures like Trump, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, Victor Orban, and so forth.... China's increasing repression, Putin's hold on power... Modi and his Hindu nationalism.... these things are all part of a "backdrop" that gives this new mentality for X-Men more emotional legitimacy with many readers

I don't think Hickman is "ruining" my childhood, it's finished, it's over… I think that an author's work is inseparable from his author. X-men haven't created this way, neither recreated this way by Claremont. These are Hickman's X-men.

It's true that an author belongs to a era… Our concerns are different now: climate change, pollution, loss of biodiversity… But I see another difference: the multiplications of screens… People spend a lot of time watching movies, TV shows. If you also read a lot of comics, books… I don't think Hickman is very different from his fans. I know it's usual to say the world is a harsh place, where the real politik prevails. But what do Hickman really know about the world, the reality, what exists in the hearts of people, if he's so much some kind of nerd? I think it's necessary to have a personal experience of the reality, to be fueled, moved by it. Claremont's dialogues might have felt sappy but there was a humanity behind them I don't find with Hickman. Heroism, friendship, strong feelings also exist in this world. What you are inside is visible in you work. I'm not satisfied by an author who only feeds his work with others' works. (I know I'm making assumptions about Hickman's life, let's say it's my intuition… )

But, of course, you can appreciated Hickman… I am a little surprised, that's all…

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

I like what Hickman is doing. The X-men franchise feels invigorated in a way that it hasn't for the better part of a decade. Sure, I now view them as potentially villain protagonists, but this whole thing is still baller as hell, and a total page turner.

[AbnormallyNormal]

[U]

I don't think Hickman is "ruining" my childhood, it's finished, it's over… I think that an author's work is inseparable from his author. X-men haven't created this way, neither recreated this way by Claremont. These are Hickman's X-men.

It's true that an author belongs to a era… Our concerns are different now: climate change, pollution, loss of biodiversity… But I see another difference: the multiplications of screens… People spend a lot of time watching movies, TV shows. If you also read a lot of comics, books… I don't think Hickman is very different from his fans. I know it's usual to say the world is a harsh place, where the real politik prevails. But what do Hickman really know about the world, the reality, what exists in the hearts of people, if he's so much some kind of nerd? I think it's necessary to have a personal experience of the reality, to be fueled, moved by it. Claremont's dialogues might have felt sappy but there was a humanity behind them I don't find with Hickman. Heroism, friendship, strong feelings also exist in this world. What you are inside is visible in you work. I'm not satisfied by an author who only feeds his work with others' works. (I know I'm making assumptions about Hickman's life, let's say it's my intuition… )

But, of course, you can appreciated Hickman… I am a little surprised, that's all…

That's a valid point, that nowadays things are way more "meta" than they used to be. Creators due to proliferation of communication technology, are more in touch of what fans think and feel than ever before, and it is so much easier now to consume so many different forms of entertainment/art. So things are "built off each other" much more and you can say it is "derivative" or artificial but it's probably also a way to avoid repetition and to sort of have a synthesis of past work while still adding your own voice.

But I just wanted to respond to your thought this is "cynical" and "endless cycle of violence" it appears to me it is trying to be very different. While you seem comfortable with the "endless cynical cycle" of Good vs Evil mutants. I feel a sci-fi/sociological approach like Hickman is using is more interesting ultimately than the (to my mind tired and boring) pattern of "Mutant Villains" who are simply "Bad" and there isn't really any coherent explanation or justification for their behavior offered. I don't think that is all that interesting, and part of people being able to consume the comics/shows/movies more now is average fans starting to catch on to the typically employed formulas and patterns. And fans are beginning to expect or wish for more sophisticated offerings.

Again, mutants are creating a "safe space" as it were with Krakoa where they can live freely and be happy. There is no intention to subjugate or wage war against humankind at all. Let's just find out how it plays out - I would be very unsurprised for a lot of this to come crashing down over time, and a more safe/conservative approach will probably resume eventually. But in the meantime let's try to be SLIGHTLY open to new things and not dismiss it all as "not based on human experience". (There IS heroism in this work, there ARE strong feelings....)

[spirit2011]

I like what Hickman is doing. The X-men franchise feels invigorated in a way that it hasn't for the better part of a decade. Sure, I now view them as potentially villain protagonists, but this whole thing is still baller as hell, and a total page turner.

Some are acting as villains, while others doesn't care about it.

Sometimes what I think X-men need is contant good writing than instant status quo changes

[U]

I don't think Hickman is "ruining" my childhood, it's finished, it's over… I think that an author's work is inseparable from his author. X-men haven't created this way, neither recreated this way by Claremont. These are Hickman's X-men.

It's true that an author belongs to a era… Our concerns are different now: climate change, pollution, loss of biodiversity… But I see another difference: the multiplications of screens… People spend a lot of time watching movies, TV shows. If you also read a lot of comics, books… I don't think Hickman is very different from his fans. I know it's usual to say the world is a harsh place, where the real politik prevails. But what do Hickman really know about the world, the reality, what exists in the hearts of people, if he's so much some kind of nerd? I think it's necessary to have a personal experience of the reality, to be fueled, moved by it. Claremont's dialogues might have felt sappy but there was a humanity behind them I don't find with Hickman. Heroism, friendship, strong feelings also exist in this world. What you are inside is visible in you work. I'm not satisfied by an author who only feeds his work with others' works. (I know I'm making assumptions about Hickman's life, let's say it's my intuition… )

But, of course, you can appreciated Hickman… I am a little surprised, that's all…

I think that few writers can do characters voice and dialogues like Claremont.

Hickman is much more plot driven, and seems to have gotten worse with dialogue
well there i ssome red flags that Hickman doesn't understand how society works

[zinderel]

Some are acting as villains, while others doesn't care about it.

Sometimes what I think X-men need is contant good writing than instant status quo changes

Well, then it’s a good thing that the X-amen are being written by Hickman. He is, objectively, a talented writer and teller of complex, heady, ambitious tales within the superhero milieu. The kind of changes that seem apocalyptic at first but end up doing exactly what he says he likes to do: put things back on the shelf where he found them.

His Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom are definitive, and current representations STILL owe a lot to the work he did. Same with Avengers in the lead up to Secret Wars. Like it or not, he has written definitive, iconic versions of many of Marvel’s Stars, and is now doing the same for the X-Men.

Not everything will be a hit with everyone. That is to be expected. No one is insisting that you like it. But, like...as an adult? You could just step away and not read X-Men for a while, instead of constantly crapping on everyone else’s joy at things finally moving away from the endless extinction cycle of the last dozen or so years. But this is the internet in 2019 ...

It may not be your cup of tea, but...*shrug* Clearly, plenty of people DO like it.

[spirit2011]

Well, then it’s a good thing that the X-amen are being written by Hickman. He is, objectively, a talented writer and teller of complex, heady, ambitious tales within the superhero milieu. The kind of changes that seem apocalyptic at first but end up doing exactly what he says he likes to do: put things back on the shelf where he found them.

His Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom are definitive, and current representations STILL owe a lot to the work he did. Same with Avengers in the lead up to Secret Wars. Like it or not, he has written definitive, iconic versions of many of Marvel’s Stars, and is now doing the same for the X-Men.

Not everything will be a hit with everyone. That is to be expected. No one is insisting that you like it. But, like...as an adult? You could just step away and not read X-Men for a while, instead of constantly crapping on everyone else’s joy at things finally moving away from the endless extinction cycle of the last dozen or so years. But this is the internet in 2019 ...

It may not be your cup of tea, but...*shrug* Clearly, plenty of people DO like it.

FF mostly ignores his work and I see a lotof people complaining on twitter;

Avengers I don't see his influence...I don't see anything definitive here

If you can't take critics, doesn't enter any community

[TheCape]

Honestly, I am enjoying the series so far. Some things I may not like, but it is interesting and I can see where it's going.

At the same time, I can see why some are put off by the whole thing. I'm not sure their concerns should be shrugged off as needless hate. Some criticisms are valid and offer discussion.

Even so, I think enjoyment can still be made.

The one thing I don't want to do is mess with other's enjoyment of the series. Hopefully that's not what I'm coming off as.

Yeah, this is my stance, the direction is interesting and is enjoyable, but i also found a lot of things about this status quo odd and strange, to the point that i'm not sure if i'm supposed to be weirded out by what is happening, or is just Hickman style.

[TheCape]

People are saying that after 12 issue book that didn't focus on anyone and 1 issue of X-men. Cyclops got some time to get flesh out in X-men 1.Literally nobody but Storm, Magneto, Cyclops, Wolverine, Doug, Emma, Xavier, Jean, M, Angel, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinster Nightcrawler and X-men 1 Lorna, Havok, Vulcan, Rachel, kid cable, CeCe Reyes have gotten lines. You don't feel like the characters you know we haven't spent any real time with characters.

I would say that for the most part Hickmman's Power/House of X has been the Xavier/Magneto/Moira, followed by Cyclops, seemingly the most dedicated mutant toward Krakoa after his two superiors and to a lesser extent Wolverine, who apparently is being hinted to be playing an important role and so far seems to be the only mutant in Krakoa having a problem with the new vision of X, both seem to be important supports in this saga. His voices for then seem to be ok, for the most part. The problems is the that the other mutants hadn't got a lot of screen time and is kind of hard to swallow that most of then would have been onboard with this idea, so easily, especially because we didn't saw how it happened.

[Master of Sound]

I think Polaris might not be oh so thrilled. Seems she ain't so sure about their current status.

Vulcan is very out of character. All are a bit, but he's totally out of it. Hate that because I liked the way Gabriel was before.

[BroHomo]

FF mostly ignores his work and I see a lotof people complaining on twitter;

Future Foundation?

Avengers I don't see his influence...I don't see anything definitive here

Didn't everything die at the end of his run? lol
+
Black Panther king of the dead
There was US Avengers with Sunspot leading... And Thanos whole crew in Avengers and the MCU

EDIT: If I'm wrong and Hickman didn't do all that I know he made the Avengers....The. AVENGERS. interesting enough for ONLY X-MEN comic xenophobe like myself to get really into them during his run

[spirit2011]

Future Foundation?
Didn't everything die at the end of his run? lol
+
Black Panther king of the dead
There was US Avengers with Sunspot leading... And Thanos whole crew in Avengers and the MCU

FF= fantastic four run including the future foundation

USA avengers is over, black panther wasn't king of death on the end of secret wars
yep MCU, but they are his own original chaarcters and used in another context

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Avengers I don't see his influence...I don't see anything definitive here

He created most of the major villains used for Endgame and Infinity war. It was under his pen that Thanos went from being strong and dangerous to someone who could solo an entire Avengers team that included Hulk, Thor, and Captain Marvel. All at once. Hickman did some gnarly stuff for the brand. You want what he's bringing to the X-men, because what he's doing is what's going to end up on the screen. I love Grant Morrison, but he's like Alan Moore: You can't adapt his work, AT ALL. Too much weirdness, too much headspace. Hickman brings in a lot of crazy **** too, but there's a level of organization and control that the Scotsman can't match.

[The tall man]

Well, then it’s a good thing that the X-amen are being written by Hickman. He is, objectively, a talented writer and teller of complex, heady, ambitious tales within the superhero milieu. The kind of changes that seem apocalyptic at first but end up doing exactly what he says he likes to do: put things back on the shelf where he found them.

His Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom are definitive, and current representations STILL owe a lot to the work he did. Same with Avengers in the lead up to Secret Wars. Like it or not, he has written definitive, iconic versions of many of Marvel’s Stars, and is now doing the same for the X-Men.

Not everything will be a hit with everyone. That is to be expected. No one is insisting that you like it. But, like...as an adult? You could just step away and not read X-Men for a while, instead of constantly crapping on everyone else’s joy at things finally moving away from the endless extinction cycle of the last dozen or so years. But this is the internet in 2019 ...

It may not be your cup of tea, but...*shrug* Clearly, plenty of people DO like it.

Where was this mentality from IVX to Extraordinary to Gold/Blue to Red to Rosenberg's Uncanny to AOX? Because a lot of posters who are loving HOX/POX and praising Hickman were among the most vocal critics of those books, and had no issue with posting their dislike. You can't expect to have a 100% lovefest for Hickman's X-men and no criticism from readers. Yes plenty of people do like it, but not everyone.