X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[RachelGrey]

This has been my observation as well. And for what it’s worth, I’m sorry you had to go through that. I was pretty much always out, couldn’t hide who I was, and got picked on, mocked, assaulted on the regular through junior high and high school. I was never put in a position where people tried to KILL me, so I can’t even imagine...

But yes, I’m my own personal, anecdotal experience, people who have actually felt oppression, hatred, ‘otherness’ tend to be pro-Krakoa, whereas people who haven’t, no matter how ‘left’ they consider themselves, liken it to fascism.

I talked to a friend of mine about this, and presented it in two different ways:

1: a queer, trans person of color invents the cure for cancer. They offer that cure for free to PoCs and LGBT+ folks, but charge white people an affordable fee.

2: Rojava develops/discovers a resource that the world wants, and says, “We will happily offer it to any nation that recognizes our right to exist as a sovereign state. If you can’t accept that, that is your right, but you don’t get our resources because there is no trade structure for protecting our interests with nations who don’t recognize is as...well...a nation.”

In the first instance, the person discussed is not racist, but is discriminatory. More importantly, it goes against the Hippocratic oath. It is not racist, because queer, trans people of color have never had systemic power of oppression against white people. Racism is systemic and involves a power structure being used by those with power to oppress those without. But their actions ARE discriminatory and unethical on a medical level, if not a societal one.

In the second instance, Rojava is acting in the best interests of their burgeoning nation and their people, are offering their resources to EVERYONE, and only asking that they not be targeted for eradication as they work to establish a nation. They are using the leverage at their disposal to achieve recognized status as a nation from nations who might not otherwise be willing to recognize a female-led Middle Eastern nation. Without that recognition, there are aspects of trade that cannot be used unless both nations are recognized.

Krakoa is like the second instance. it is a group of people oppressed by everyone around them, coming together to fight for their right to exist, using the tools at their disposal.

Thank you for this post. I agree with you that the second option you presented is more accurate.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Me too. AbnormallyNormal, that was a really insulting generalization. What is wrong with some of you, who can't abide fellow fans disagreeing with you? You can't abide educated fans with knowledge of sociology, psychology, politics, history, disagreeing with you? Wow, that was a low for posts on this forum. And I was beginning to think all you-all who think Krakoastan is wonderful are secret white nationalists! (Just kidding, sarcasm, can't help myself.)

I mean I said in all caps "generalization". You're one of the people I was thinking of as a clear exception.

Honestly your stance confuses me, you seem to consider the new status quo some kind of example of "white nationalism" because as you say, it combines mutants being "superior" to humans in terms of abilities while at the same time feeling a sense of "oppression".

From my PoV I think those two aspects have been involved with X-Men lore for a LONG time it's not brand new with Hickman at all. And it is somewhat contradictory but that is part of the excitement involved. It's almost like, you get to feel righteously indignant about a human-majority society freaking out and trying to suppress/control/exterminate your "kind", while simultaneously "your kind" has these awesome powers that make you special and "better". It appeals to readers that way it's like a built-in validation for anyone who feels like an outcast, loner, etc that they really do deserve better, you see what I'm saying? So while I can SOMEWHAT tenuously comprehend your analogy to "white nationalism" I think it's more broad than that. The apparent contradiction or paradox is crucial to a lot of the emotive and cathartic satisfaction involved in X-Lore. This Krakoa situation is just cranking it up some notches.

I'm confused though because I recall previously you speaking that you basically don't even believe in the hero-villain dichotomy. You said some pretty interesting things about the etymology of 'villain' meaning outsider or peasant or something right? Or wanderer. The implication that "villain" is a perspective from the landed gentry or aristocratic elites of medieval period towards ordinary/poor people or those who defied their will, or didn't behave as the elites wished. That to me was an incredibly fascinating insight of yours, so I feel like you're sensitive enough to have a better perspective on the Krakoa situation. Like does it bug you that Nathaniel Essex, En Sabah Nur, Raven Darkholme, etc. are involved as leaders? Or is it just the whole idea of "mutant separation" that has you so disturbed? I also was under the impression (you being a Magneto fan) that you were pro Genosha? But apparently not... how confusing.

Anyway I apologize for any offense caused but it truly is my perception that GENERALLY there is a political split going on here. Like put it this way, there are some on the left side who are anti Krakoa but I see almost noone who is a conservative who is pro Krakoa. So I'd put it that way.

[Tycon]

It's not at all truly unifying language though is it.

"My" is personally possessive, objectifying.

"Our" is possessive.

They aren't declarations of open solidarity, unity, openness or inclusion.

It's true that "My" and "Our" are also about belonging or to declare an association to, but it sounds arrogant to assume that all "your" people are "yours", when talking about people. You know, all those people who all have their own autonomy, lives, dreams, experiences that you as an individual have got no right to claim as yours and so their/them/other/different/not the same/division.

It's divisive language not unifying, hence my irritation at the X-Men sounding teen angsty. Angst means fear or anxiety, in this case the HiX-Mens homogenized world outlook, being given fear and anxiety of the "other" people, i.e. humans, neo humans.

Unifying doesn’t automatics mean unifying literally every person ever, if you didn’t know. Saying “my community” is unifying everyone fitting under that umbrella, don’t feel alienated if you aren’t in the community because it simply doesn’t apply to you. The whole point of almost communities and cultures is finding a safe space from an oppressive majority. And for those who haven’t been reading the X-Men recently, they’ve just come off a streak of getting run down and experimented on and murdered by multiple governments. It makes sense to sequester yourself and your family to a safe place if it means.....not dying. Also, none of that sounds like “teen angst” moreso “marginalized communities nationalizing themselves”

Wasn't this during the arc with the senator trying to get all mutants deported?

im not gonna let facts and reason stop me from dunking on x-men gold

[H-E-D]

"Humans can go to Krakoa too if they stan [INSERT KOREAN POP THING]!"

I wonder which K-Pop groups have mutant members in the Marvel Universe.

My money is on Dreamcatcher.

[jmc247]

Anyway I apologize for any offense caused but it truly is my perception that GENERALLY there is a political split going on here. Like put it this way, there are some on the left side who are anti Krakoa but I see almost noone who is a conservative who is pro Krakoa. So I'd put it that way.

How do you know who is conservative or liberal? Such assumptions on the internet should be avoided short of people telling you as such. We are talking about a fantasy world with some real world parallels. The idea of a sperate homeland for a minority is not really a conservative or liberal idea. In early America it was widely considered by abolitionists the least bad option for ending slavery without rivers of blood to create a nation or U.S. territory for the freed slaves. It had some support among the early Northern conservative shippers and industrialists who would in two generations would make up the early Republican party and support from liberal (in the traditional sense) Southern planters who wanted the system to die without a race war and/or civil war.

Thomas Jefferson: Yet the hour of emancipation is advancing, in the march of time. It will come; and whether brought on by the generous energy of our own minds; or by the bloody process of St Domingo, excited and conducted by the power of our present enemy, if once stationed permanently within our Country, and offering asylum & arms to the oppressed, is a leaf of our history not yet turned over.

As to the method by which this difficult work is to be effected, if permitted to be done by ourselves, I have seen no proposition so expedient on the whole, as that as emancipation of those born after a given day, and of their education and expatriation after a given age. This would give time for a gradual extinction of that species of labour & substitution of another, and lessen the severity of the shock which an operation so fundamental cannot fail to produce.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents...on/jefl232.php

The idea led to the creation of Liberia.

Liberia began as a settlement of the American Colonization Society (ACS), who believed black people would face better chances for freedom and prosperity in Africa than in the United States.[7] The country declared its independence on July 26, 1847. The U.S. did not recognize Liberia's independence until February 5, 1862, during the American Civil War. Between January 7, 1822, and the American Civil War, more than 15,000 freed and free-born black people who faced legislated limits in the U.S., and 3,198 Afro-Caribbeans, relocated to the settlement. The settlers carried their culture and tradition with them. The Liberian constitution and flag were modeled after those of the U.S.

On January 3, 1848, Joseph Jenkins Roberts, a wealthy, free-born African American from Virginia who settled in Liberia, was elected Liberia's first president after the people proclaimed independence. Liberia was the first African republic to proclaim its independence, and is Africa's first and oldest modern republic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

Point being Xavier is giving up his dream of a melting pot society and settling for what he sees as the least bad option for the moment.

[Master of Sound]

For those who do not keep an eye on the Children of the Vault thread: It is confirmed it is Serafina, by the way: https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...y-of-the-x-men

[Zelena]

I'm for the mutants to have their own nation where they can feel secure and live peacefully.
I cringe at the identity discourse. Like if they are mutants, they can't be something else. It's a simplification of the characters. They lack of depth…

[Devaishwarya]

For those who do not keep an eye on the Children of the Vault thread: It is confirmed it is Serafina, by the way: https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...y-of-the-x-men

Of course it was Seraphina..was there any doubt?
I absolutely love that HiX-Man took them off the shelf, dusted them off and is putting them to good use. The CotV were/are awesome foes well-suited for HiX-Man's overall premise.

[ThePhoenix]

Guys my suspicions that the X-Men shouldn't have left behind any bodies in the Mother Mold attack rise after this >>

Dr. Alia Gregor

Kin’s widow, Dr. Alia Gregor, was so incensed about his death that she personally killed Cyclops. We don’t know what motivated Dr. Gregor before her time with Orchis, but her vendetta against mutants has been intensified. In the cliffhanger of X-MEN #1, Dr. Gregor indicated that she knows how to bring her husband back to life. That potentially evens the balance between the humans and the mutants. She may have even learned how to do so by examining the bodies of the X-Men who were left behind on the Orchis Forge.

Cyclops, Angel, Husk and Monet had their there up for the taking.

[Veitha]

Guys my suspicions that the X-Men shouldn't have left behind any bodies in the Mother Mold attack rise after this >>



Cyclops, Angel, Husk and Monet had their there up for the taking.

Yeah I read that too. Plus I'm pretty sure Mystique was up to something on the station too.

How could they have prevented that? Maybe an implant before the mission to make sure their bodies got destroyed?

[ermac]

Oh. That's something I hadn't thought. With the new status quo on ressurections we can have tons of bodies of the same person lying around oO

[spirit2011]

How do you know who is conservative or liberal? Such assumptions on the internet should be avoided short of people telling you as such. We are talking about a fantasy world with some real world parallels. The idea of a sperate homeland for a minority is not really a conservative or liberal idea. In early America it was widely considered by abolitionists the least bad option for ending slavery without rivers of blood to create a nation or U.S. territory for the freed slaves. It had some support among the early Northern conservative shippers and industrialists who would in two generations would make up the early Republican party and support from liberal (in the traditional sense) Southern planters who wanted the system to die without a race war and/or civil war.



The idea led to the creation of Liberia.



The America dream was as a melting pot of ideas, races, and religions... for Jefferson a black homeland was a compromise short of civil war that might be acceptable to the rest of the country. Certainly in his own household it was very much a melting pot until Jefferson died and the creditors came to collect and then quite a few members of his household learned for the first time their legal status.



Point being Xavier is giving up his dream of a melting pot society and settling for what he sees as the least bad option that would avoid bloodshed as Jefferson ended up doing.

Nice story class.

I think it is very hard to judge political views on a fictional story that only resembles some real life situations

[ARkadelphia]

To be honest,

Both Jean and Sue need some new dicks to freshen up. These two ladies never got to date others before tying the knot which is the ultimate recipe for a doomed marriage.

Absolutely correct. That’s why Reed and Sue will never last.

[djoki96]

I mean, I'm technically neither pro-Krakoa nor anti-Krakoa, I do like the way the story is headed, but I am bothered by X-Men talking about their genetic superiority. So that's probably what's bothering other left-leaning people here.

We all know that there were other people in real life history who talked about isolationism and genetic superiority. And we all know how that ended.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I mean, I'm technically neither pro-Krakoa nor anti-Krakoa, I do like the way the story is headed, but I am bothered by X-Men talking about their genetic superiority. So that's probably what's bothering other left-leaning people here.

We all know that there were other people in real life history who talked about isolationism and genetic superiority. And we all know how that ended.

Yeah, that's my main concern to be honest; considering you've got God-Complex incarnate Magneto, Mutant-Supremacist Apocalypse and the Nazi-Eugenicist Sinister in prominent seats of power...*wince.*

That's not a very encouraging thought, y'know?