View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  1. #1546
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post

    In what way is using unifying language “teen angsty”???????!!
    It's not at all truly unifying language though is it.

    "My" is personally possessive, objectifying.

    "Our" is possessive.

    They aren't declarations of open solidarity, unity, openness or inclusion.

    It's true that "My" and "Our" are also about belonging or to declare an association to, but it sounds arrogant to assume that all "your" people are "yours", when talking about people. You know, all those people who all have their own autonomy, lives, dreams, experiences that you as an individual have got no right to claim as yours and so their/them/other/different/not the same/division.

    It's divisive language not unifying, hence my irritation at the X-Men sounding teen angsty. Angst means fear or anxiety, in this case the HiX-Mens homogenized world outlook, being given fear and anxiety of the "other" people, i.e. humans, neo humans.

  2. #1547
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Even if you're not a fan of that language, I don't see anything very "teenage" about it.

    Unless you just read people who are left wing in a way you don't agree with as teenage.

  3. #1548
    "Comics journalism"? Filthy Mutie's Avatar
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    ...uh, yeah, that's not "teenage."

  4. #1549
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    That way of speaking reminds me Magneto in "Days of Future Past", the movie: "our brothers and sisters… our people…" He wasn't a teenager anymore but had quite an traumatic past…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  5. #1550
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    yeah and she also worked with agents of the American Government and an AI Sentinel to create a new version and deadlier version of the Legacy Virus to deploy across the entire Earth.

    Then after all the X-Men disappeared from the world in Uncanny the United States passed a law where all mutants had to be detained and forcibly cured, and killed if they resisted being cured.
    Just because you can name a very recent, very relevant example, why shouldn’t mutants ignore that and trust humanity as good and decent? Why should that cause mutants to not freely give away their one bit of leverage (well, the one that doesn’t involve the all-out race war that many, many, MANY humans repeatedly call for and/or openly support...) to humanity free of charge and with no strings attached?

    I mean, Don’t you know that, like...LITERAL handfuls of humanity think mutants are deserving of dignities and compassion and the right to exist unmolested? Doesn’t the existence of a few dozen human allies outweighs racism? There were like TWO whole rallies for coexistence between the last genocide attempt and this one!

    Surely that outweighs the government sanctioned torture, experimentation and genocide committed against mutant adults and children by one of the greatest superpowers in the world.

    Mutants are such unreasonable racist fascists for not just trusting that THIS TIME humanity won’t yank the football away at the last second. How DARE they still think of themselves as heroes...
    Last edited by zinderel; 10-22-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  6. #1551
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Just because you can name a very recent, very relevant example, why shouldn’t mutants ignore that and trust humanity as good and decent? I mean, like...LITERAL handfuls of humanity think mutants are deserving of dignities and compassion and the right to exist unmolested. There were like TWO whole rallies for coexistence between the last genocide attempt and this one!

    Surely that outweighs the government sanctioned torture, experimentation and genocide committed against mutant adults and children by one of the greatest superpowers in the world.

    Mutants are such unreasonable racist fascists for not just trusting that THIS TIME humanity won’t yank the football away at the last second...
    Because we should believe in optimism for our fictional characters?

    Because in the real world, I'm pessimistic as hell. My country, the bastion of the free world, is increasingly becoming a nightmarish corporate hellscape where the rich pass laws to rob people blind by getting the people to kill each other. There is very little hope left for people in the US in the real world. So it would be nice for the heroes in fiction to be optimistic and maybe this time the writer won't push the "DARKNESS NO PARENTS ANGST!!!!!!" button and have the mutants get put on the brink of death again. Maybe accomplish that without having to completely annihilate the status quo. But I guess that's too much to ask.

  7. #1552

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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because we should believe in optimism for our fictional characters?

    Because in the real world, I'm pessimistic as hell. My country, the bastion of the free world, is increasingly becoming a nightmarish corporate hellscape where the rich pass laws to rob people blind by getting the people to kill each other. There is very little hope left for people in the US in the real world. So it would be nice for the heroes in fiction to be optimistic and maybe this time the writer won't push the "DARKNESS NO PARENTS ANGST!!!!!!" button and have the mutants get put on the brink of death again. Maybe accomplish that without having to completely annihilate the status quo. But I guess that's too much to ask.
    No. If the people in the real world can't escape being persecuted, people who read X-men shouldn't be able to sit down for a good ol read and feel like it doesn't exist or things are magically better. Some people can't escape. If thats what they want they should read carebears. And i personally DON"T think there is LITTLE hope here in america. The losers who claim they are making america great again may, but those of us who know America will always be great know that there will always be hope.

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  8. #1553
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because we should believe in optimism for our fictional characters?

    Because in the real world, I'm pessimistic as hell. My country, the bastion of the free world, is increasingly becoming a nightmarish corporate hellscape where the rich pass laws to rob people blind by getting the people to kill each other. There is very little hope left for people in the US in the real world. So it would be nice for the heroes in fiction to be optimistic and maybe this time the writer won't push the "DARKNESS NO PARENTS ANGST!!!!!!" button and have the mutants get put on the brink of death again. Maybe accomplish that without having to completely annihilate the status quo. But I guess that's too much to ask.
    I want that too. Unfortunately, we have to work to get there, just like in the real world. If we woke up tomorrow in a world where everything was peachy keen and hunky dory for mutantkind, after over a decade of genocides and extinctions and torture camps, it would be jarring and unreal. This is the narrative the editors and writers chose to give us for over a decade. They know better than to pretend that simply hand waving that away and pretending things are fine is both bad storytelling and an unrealistic panacea.

    Just as real world Nazis have seen a resurgence that makes real life an unbearable $&@%show for people of conscience, the presence of racist, fascistic majorities in 616 Humanity is a consequence of that reality. Art is often uncomfortable and difficult to consume because of its ability to make us feel in ways we simply don’t - or are somehow better able to ignore - when faced with a real person and their real suffering. It’s why greater acceptance of oppressed people - black, gay, trans, etc. - as...well...people...tends to follow greater media representation. I think the fact that X-Men HAS been so bleak is a reflection of real world hopelessness in the face of horrors in the real world. Just like comics in the 80’s were dark and grim thanks to the political climates in England and America towards minorities, then.

    Yeah. It SUCKS that the X-Men DONT trust humanity the way they used to in the more optimistic Claremont era. It is not as fun as it was in the 90’s when everything was EXTREME and just focused on people in brilliantly colored tights smashing into other people in brilliantly colored tights and the real world wasn’t a giant $&@#show that we all wanted to escape. But that was then. This is now. To ignore it would be doing a disservice to the entire purpose of the art form.

    Humanity in the 616 sucks, as a general rule. They always kinda have, but in the last ten years, that suckitude has...metastasized. And at this point, the only way past that reality is through.
    Last edited by zinderel; 10-22-2019 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #1554

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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    I want that too. Unfortunately, we have to work to get there, just like in the real world. If we woke up tomorrow in a world where everything was peachy keen and hunky dory for mutantkind, after over a decade of genocides and extinctions and torture camps, it would be jarring and unreal. This is the narrative the editors and writers chose to give us for over a decade. They know better than to pretend that simply hand waving that away and pretending things are fine is both bad storytelling and an unrealistic panacea.

    Just as real world Nazis have seen a resurgence that makes real life an unbearable $&@%show for people of conscience, the presence of racist, fascistic majorities in 616 Humanity is a consequence of that reality. Art is often uncomfortable and difficult to consume because of its ability to make us feel in ways we simply don’t - or are somehow better able to ignore - when faced with a real person and their real suffering. It’s why greater acceptance of oppressed people - black, gay, trans, etc. - as...well...people...tends to follow greater media representation. I think the fact that X-Men HAS been so bleak is a reflection of real world hopelessness in the face of horrors in the real world. Just like comics in the 80’s were dark thanks to the political climates in a England and America towards minorities, then.

    Yeah. It SUCKS that the X-Men DONT trust humanity the way they used to in the more optimistic Claremont era. It is not as fun as it was in the 90’s when everything was EXTREME and just focused on people in brilliantly colored tights smashing into other people in brilliantly colored tights and the real world wasn’t a giant $&@#show that we all wanted to escape. But that was then. This is now. To ignore it would be doing a disservice to the entire purpose of the art form.

    Humanity in the 616 sucks, as a general rule. They always kinda have, but in the last ten years, that suckitude has...metastasized. And at this point, the only way past that reality is through.
    *claps* I wish i could frame this post.
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  10. #1555
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Even if you're not a fan of that language, I don't see anything very "teenage" about it.

    Unless you just read people who are left wing in a way you don't agree with as teenage.
    Wut?

    The claiming of "My" people, ain't only a left wing ideology, obviously, and no, I don't simplify people to left and right, people are a bit more nuanced than that. You're projecting there.


    As someone who myself was a teenager once yeah fo'sho, I do have a little bit of experience of the teen experience. I remember back to those days when I wasn't so worldly aware through travel and daily life, of the innate similarities of "all" people. Much of the 'angst' was a whole lot of wasted time.

    Yeah, teens can be dumb, I remember being so myself, they can be cliquey, yet parrot the societal ideals of inclusion, but yet are cliquey, they can exhibit all sort of hypocrisies, but no more so than adults that also exhibit all sorts of hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately alot of adults don't have enough empathy to reassure teen readers that things aren't all bad, they'd sooner piss n moan about injustices, divisions, fears and claim the moral high-ground, while viciously booting everyone else off, said moral high-ground, as teens also do, sometimes.

  11. #1556
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    No. If the people in the real world can't escape being persecuted, people who read X-men shouldn't be able to sit down for a good ol read and feel like it doesn't exist or things are magically better. Some people can't escape. If thats what they want they should read carebears. And i personally DON"T think there is LITTLE hope here in america. The losers who claim they are making america great again may, but those of us who know America will always be great know that there will always be hope.

    Welcome to Marvel, the world outside your window.
    Authors are influenced by the world where they live. And it is showed in their work. But to make it bearable, there is some transposition. I don't think entertainment excludes talking about serious matters. I even think it's the most efficient way.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  12. #1557
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Rogue View Post
    As someone who myself was a teenager once yeah fo'sho, I do have a little bit of experience of the teen experience. I remember back to those days when I wasn't so worldly aware through travel and daily life, of the innate similarities of "all" people. Much of the 'angst' was a whole lot of wasted time.

    Yeah, teens can be dumb, I remember being so myself, they can be cliquey, yet parrot the societal ideals of inclusion, but yet are cliquey, they can exhibit all sort of hypocrisies, but no more so than adults that also exhibit all sorts of hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately alot of adults don't have enough empathy to reassure teen readers that things aren't all bad, they'd sooner piss n moan about injustices, divisions, fears and claim the moral high-ground, while viciously booting everyone else off, said moral high-ground, as teens also do, sometimes.
    So, none of this actually speaks to what exactly makes that language specifically "teenage".

  13. #1558
    Moo-tant? Ultimate Rogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    So, none of this actually speaks to what exactly makes that language specifically "teenage".
    It really does, you're just not picking it up.

  14. #1559

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Rogue View Post
    It really does, you're just not picking it up.
    It comes off reading as a conservative person feeling like liberals are doing too much bringing attention to all the injustices, fears and hypocrisies, that are being perpetrated by the supposedly "Godly" conservative and because that awareness is making them feel ungodly it knocks them off the high ground they thought they were on. But that post didn't read like an explanation for why it's supposedly teen code word. But that is just how it came off to me.
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  15. #1560
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Rogue View Post
    It really does, you're just not picking it up.
    I mean, every point in that post you made sure to specify that it's something that adults also do.

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