X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

We have a clear answer on this now, I was listening to Battle of the Atom and the excalibur artist said Brian braddock isn't allowed on Krakoa. We have seen that probably Corsair wasn't allowed in either. Shogo is probably allowed in only in a habitat as well. I don't know why some fans keep seeing this as some sort big deal that humans can't go on Krakoa. I think solution is the habitats the human family of mutants can stay in the habitats. From what we seen the the Habitats can be huge.

The habitats might be huge, but it's still very limiting in its own way. Take Jubilee and Shogo for example;

Shogo is only a baby. Jubilee, meanwhile, might be especially excited to finally be able to celebrate just being herself--to go out and enjoy all Krakoa has to offer...! Except...she has an infant son. And no, she can't just always leave him with a babysitter, because outside of availability of one...she can't enjoy what's there without her baby. As he grows, the family attractions will forever be off limits to him, he won't get to go and make a wider variety of friends, he won't understand the joy of mutant culture to its' fullest extent. All he'll know is that he's only allowed on the outskirts. And, yes, being a human he might never truly 'get' what makes it so special and wonderful, but cutting him off from a big part of his family's life isn't going to help.

Same with other mutant parents who might yet have a human child. Say someone has twins; one's a mutant, one's a human--there's a festival or something going on at the mainland...either both parents leave one kid behind and go and have just the best day ever (as their sibling might very well describe it) without them, or nobody goes at all, ever?

[powerpax]

Again, is there a hard and fast rule that men shall not leave their wives and or children? It is a social expectation that couples and families stay together? Have we not interacted with the greater society and culture and realize that it is rather normal for a person to walk out on their spouse, kids, and responsibilities?

My parents divorced when I was three and I was just fine with it, but that's not really the same thing. It's not exactly a Kramer vs. Kramer situation when you leave your wife and newborn at the tender mercies of the Marauders, is it?

As for Jean and those memories, I always took it to be her inheriting them, but I never took them to not be memories from another distinct person. And we already know from past experience that JDW's opinions are not necessarily always in line with what Hickman has presented or is doing. He gives the writers room to work and take their own approach to characters, as he should. So I don't think we can make out "word of God" on Maddy or any other topic atm if it's not in print. As I said a couple pages back, I think it is entirely possible and perhaps even likely Hickman will take on the Jean/Maddy issue soon enough, and if he does and chooses to make a specific declaration re: the nature of Madelyne I'm open to it. But as of now, I feel the same way lots of people felt about her for decades - she was her own person and she was done wrong. It's not the end of the world, it happens.

[The Jeeper 2.0]

Granted, the Maddie character did not get good treatment. This is something we can all agree on. Cyclops leaving his wife and kid for Jean in 2019 is still controversial even though men leave women and children every day all across our globe. It is a thing that happens and it exists. Some fans thought it ruined Cyclops and others think it made him relatable and more human. Again, is there a hard and fast rule that men shall not leave their wives and or children? It is a social expectation that couples and families stay together? Have we not interacted with the greater society and culture and realize that it is rather normal for a person to walk out on their spouse, kids, and responsibilities?

Right and wrong include many assumptions and subjectivities.

On Maddie, she is a complex character. The writers made her a villain to make Cyclops look better. They tied her in with Jean Grey and the Phoenix. The Phoenix bringing the part of Jean it borrowed to her after Jean rejected it in the cocoon. Later Jean receives the part of her soul and memories back and she also ends up with the mind/memories of Maddie.

Later as we know Nate Grey re-creates Maddie and she sometimes still exists as a person or a psionic ghost or whatever. I see Maddie and Jean similar to twins but it is a little more complicated since they have merged in various ways (see Inferno). JDW recently said on twitter (see his replies) to a fan question that Jean, Maddie and Phoenix have been the same character since Inferno so it seems to be where he is at. But there is definitely room to debate and we certainly have for over 20 years about this very topic!

The Summers family is definitely a complicated one. If Maddie was to be brought back again she would find Jean had completely taken over her life (her husband, her son etc). Jean has all of Maddie's memories so she would recall giving birth to Cable. Jean remembered Scott proposing to Maddie when Scott proposed to her in X-factor. They share the same genetics, powers, and they share memories. Sounds a lot like this new resurrection process protocols where if you have the same dna and the same mind (from a back up) you are considered to still be the same and with your same anima.

He didn't leave Maddie/Baby Chris for Jean. He tried to come back and we all remember what happened next 35 years ago.

[Killerbee911]

Well, I don't doubt it was said but I'll need to see that in print before I buy it. That said, I also think there's the possibility of a difference between Krakoa admitting a powered non-mutant hero like Brian Braddock (or any human Avenger) and admitting the father of Cyclops, who has no going interests on Earth or as a superhero enforcer. We don't know Corsair was disallowed, we only know Scott's home is the moon. We'll see.

I am 100% certain he said Brian wasn't allowed because talk about Elizabeth and him couldn't stay together and who she was going to deal with separation. That was a clear a plot point but yeah we will see but this shouldn't be big deal apparently it is a big deal except for fans who seem to think that humans are entitled to go over on earth. Even Islands that humans forced to be made because of their racism and bigotry.

[tuck frump]

Weezie was rarely one for nuance.

Or good writing.

Granted, the Maddie character did not get good treatment. This is something we can all agree on. Cyclops leaving his wife and kid for Jean in 2019 is still controversial even though men leave women and children every day all across our globe. It is a thing that happens and it exists. Some fans thought it ruined Cyclops and others think it made him relatable and more human. Again, is there a hard and fast rule that men shall not leave their wives and or children? It is a social expectation that couples and families stay together? Have we not interacted with the greater society and culture and realize that it is rather normal for a person to walk out on their spouse, kids, and responsibilities?

Right and wrong include many assumptions and subjectivities.

Moral relativism really dont apply to whether you should leave your infant son in the hands of a nazi mad scientist to score with ur highschool sweetheart or not.

[powerpax]

Captain Britain was on the Avengers side during AvsX and is therefore an enemy of mutantkind. Nothing to do with race.

This is my suspicion. Braddock is not Corsair or Shogo. Captain Britain is an inactive Avenger and Avengers-affiliated superhuman.

[powerpax]

I am 100% certain he said Brian wasn't allowed because talk about Elizabeth and him couldn't stay together and who she was going to deal with separation. That was a clear a plot point but yeah we will see but this should be big deal apparently it is a big deal except for fans who seem to think that humans are entitled to go over on earth.

I don't doubt he said it. But I do think there's a difference between CB living there or visiting. Either way, should he be entirely kept off Krakoa, Brian not being allowed is not necessarily the same as certain other humans like Corsair or Shogo due to extenuating circumstances, as several of us have said. We just don't know yet. We'll have to see.

[RachelGrey]

But they still can't go to the island themselves.

How nice...

There could be another reason though. Krakoa is a sentient island, and it may itself only tolerate mutants to live on it because it sees them as brethren. It may see humans as an infection and it may actually make humans sick if they live there.

This would make sense in some ways because if humans tried to conquer Krakoa they might not be able to survive for long periods, they might get sick. Some of the flowers created by Krakoa cannot be used by humans at all, so Xavier had to use his Pharmaceutical company to test which flower compounds were safe for humans, and which ones were only safe for mutants.

Of course we haven't seen definitively yet that humans can't go to Krakoa, and Corsair and the rest of the Starjammers were perfectly fine in the habitat which is an extension of Krakoa.

But just consider that one of the reasons normal humans can't go to Krakoa may be because the natural unprocessed flowers on the island will make them sick, and humans can only use the processed compounds that Xavier's Pharmaceutical company creates.

On the other hand, two issues for now we might see someone's parents visiting the island and this whole conversation is moot.

[RachelGrey]

Oh one more thing, it feels like Hickman is acknowledging existing canon as often as possible. Madelyne was fully resurrected by Arkea along with Selene Gallio. Selene has been operating actively in Captain American since then as part of the Power Elite and passing herself off as a consultant to the United States government.

Madelyne could be anywhere right now. I would be interested if we find out she just got fed up with the whole fighting with the X-Men thing and she went back to Alaska to work as a pilot and try to reconnect with her normal life again, and definitely avoid Sinister since she despises him more than anyone on Earth.

If Maddie came to Krakoa she would probably try to kill Sinister as the first thing she would want to do!

[Glio]

Were not humans from Hellfire Club those who experimented with Krakoa in Wolverine and the X-men and created those clones?

[tuck frump]

Wow I rlly wonder why this guy cant go to Krakoa.

[gambitxremy]

Oh one more thing, it feels like Hickman is acknowledging existing canon as often as possible. Madelyne was fully resurrected by Arkea along with Selene Gallio. Selene has been operating actively in Captain American since then as part of the Power Elite and passing herself off as a consultant to the United States government.

Madelyne could be anywhere right now. I would be interested if we find out she just got fed up with the whole fighting with the X-Men thing and she went back to Alaska to work as a pilot and try to reconnect with her normal life again, and definitely avoid Sinister since she despises him more than anyone on Earth.

If Maddie came to Krakoa she would probably try to kill Sinister as the first thing she would want to do!

True I think your on point with this one

[powerpax]

Yes, she's likely still out there. And I've always been fond of Maddy but as I've said before I have no idea where she has left to go as an actual character. I'd likely just want her put to rest unless there is something unique to be found besides sifting the old ashes of past story. Which is what most of her silly villain stints in the last two decades seem to do.

Meanwhile, that sure looks like Shogo on Krakoa to me in the Excalibur preview pages, unless Betsy, Jubilee, Kwannon and Goldballs are all hanging out in a habitat.

[People Of The Earth]

We don't need an excuse, all we need is the text. They weren't on the mainland because Scott's home isn't on the mainland. Simple as. Further, in all likelihood Shogo lives with Jubilee on Krakoa.

"Haven't been on the Mainland" as in "Haven't been there/ Haven't visited it". English isn't my mother tongue but I thought my wording made it pretty clear. Personally, I see only two reasons why that would be: either they didn't want to go there, or they couldn't.
And I doubt the Starjammers would refuse the Opportunity to see Krakoa for themselves if they had it. We'll see for Shogo, shall we? His situation will clarify a few things hopefully.

And why is it so shocking that Corsair wouldn't know what it is or have been there before? Krakoa came together in the last few months.

Shocking? My wording isn't that poor, sorry. The Starjammers have been visiting Scott Summers and staying at his house for the duration of said visit. If Corsair had no clue what a Krakoan flower gate was until offered one by his sons, there's reason to believe he and his crew hadn't see any during their stay in said house. Simple enough observation.

I wonder why

"What I don't understand nor agree with is this being the only kind of people depicted here.
Fact, not all sapiens hate mutants. Fact, not all sapiens hate their mutant kid."

At least you stay on brand. The X-men fan base is interesting at times.

Great contribution, really.

[RachelGrey]

Yes, she's likely still out there. And I've always been fond of Maddy but as I've said before I have no idea where she has left to go as an actual character. I'd likely just want her put to rest unless there is something unique to be found besides sifting the old ashes of past story. Which is what most of her silly villain stints in the last two decades seem to do.

Meanwhile, that sure looks like Shogo on Krakoa to me in the Excalibur preview pages, unless Betsy, Jubilee, Kwannon and Goldballs are all hanging out in a habitat.

It's possible if they do Inferno II, someone else triggers it this time and it's not Maddie.

Maddie could show up near the end to challenge whoever takes on the mantle of being Goblin King or Queen, and Maddie surprises everyone by offering to help the X-Men defeat the usurper.