View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

Voters
249. You may not vote on this poll
  • ★★★★★

    82 32.93%
  • ★★★★

    84 33.73%
  • ★★★

    55 22.09%
  • ★★

    18 7.23%
  • 10 4.02%
Page 70 of 107 FirstFirst ... 206066676869707172737480 ... LastLast
Results 1,036 to 1,050 of 1591
  1. #1036
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No, it is not humans do not need anything from Krakoa, The drugs are a want not a need. It is not economic duress they are countries that refuse the deal. Setting terms and conditions are part of deals this like a company trying to hire a person who is a genius and they demand stocks in the company. When your product or skill is high enough you can demand extra things in deals. This is not blackmail
    Yeah, I'm sorry but this is flat out false. Those diseases affect millions of people and claim thousands of lives every year. The drugs curing them are ABSOLUTELY needed.
    Otherwise, yeah, the Kraked are using those drugs to bargain with other countries and obtain what they want. Fair is fair. Morally speaking, it's dirty af and that might be the biggest indicator of them acting as a country: morality and politics don't mesh well in most countries on Earth, Krakoa is no exception.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  2. #1037
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but this is flat out false. Those diseases affect millions of people and claim thousands of lives every year. The drugs curing them are ABSOLUTELY needed.
    Otherwise, yeah, the Kraked are using those drugs to bargain with other countries and obtain what they want. Fair is fair. Morally speaking, it's dirty af and that might be the biggest indicator of them acting as a country: morality and politics don't mesh well in most countries on Earth, Krakoa is no exception.
    Well Xavier acknowledged that making a nation is dirty work and I can get behind that idea. They won't make themselves be heard by being softies. A gift would have made humans think they are weak or put them in a position of servility towards humans while they actually don't owe them much in my opinion. I mean, Wakanda probably has had the cure for cancer for years and they're not even sharing lol I don't see why Krakoa selling their drugs is a bad thing as much as any other country selling natural resources.

  3. #1038
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    17,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but this is flat out false. Those diseases affect millions of people and claim thousands of lives every year. The drugs curing them are ABSOLUTELY needed.
    Otherwise, yeah, the Kraked are using those drugs to bargain with other countries and obtain what they want. Fair is fair. Morally speaking, it's dirty af and that might be the biggest indicator of them acting as a country: morality and politics don't mesh well in most countries on Earth, Krakoa is no exception.
    This is like saying "Well, mutant need a world where humanity isn't trying to work out ways to wipe them out all the time."

    Feels like you are trying to hold mutants to a standard you are not holding humanity to.

    To me, this just seem like the most sensible way to go about dealing with the people you are dealing with. Any attempt at talking about "Fair Is Fair..." when Sentinels exist is just beyond silly.

  4. #1039
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I know I'm jumping into this discussion randomly, but is your argument really humans don't need a cure for cancer and degenerative brain diseases?
    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Yeah, I'm sorry but this is flat out false. Those diseases affect millions of people and claim thousands of lives every year. The drugs curing them are ABSOLUTELY needed.
    Otherwise, yeah, the Kraked are using those drugs to bargain with other countries and obtain what they want. Fair is fair. Morally speaking, it's dirty af and that might be the biggest indicator of them acting as a country: morality and politics don't mesh well in most countries on Earth, Krakoa is no exception.
    The drugs are a want in the sense that, If they rejected the deal. The Human species would go on dealing with the issues like they always have in the past. Yes the drugs are greatly helpful but in terms of being "blackmailed" which was being discussed. It is not a need and the deal is very rejectable. It is a very sci-fi question but if aliens came and offer that deal to earth now but the offer was to give up half of the landmass on earth for those things. The answer would be no. Humans want better cures, medicine and longer life but if the deal is bad they don't have to accept. It is vast vast upgrade but it is an upgrade none the less. You don't need upgrades you want upgrades. Electricity and tech aren't needs even though they have vastly improved life. Those drugs are in that same category they are clear upgrades but humans, in general, can survive without that change. That is why I said it is not a need in the context of that conversation. Remember the convo was blackmail and answer could easily been no your offer would greatly help us and save millions but we think the terms are too high and we will move on like we always have done.

    Now with that of the way considering what the drugs can do the terms of the deal was fair. They could have asked more land, global rules for the treatment of mutants, etc, they just asked for recognition as a nation and any mutant born be consider citizens of Krakoa. And given what it would do for humans that is a fair trade. Some people were calling it blackmail no thats when medical companies jack up the insulin and other meds without other sources to make profits that is blackmail. Krakoa is an island with mutants on it and is already a nation for the price of improving millions of lives some high cost to pay for the small price of something that is already a thing? And some can correct me if a wrong but are scientists and doctors out here giving away there medicines and technology advancement away for free? Is the general practice to get some benefit from making something that helps? This wasn't even dirty commerce Krakoa actually undersold what they could have gotten for the medicine.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-18-2019 at 04:09 AM.

  5. #1040
    Fantastic Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    253

    Default

    So, Wolverine, the loner, the original back woods, cabin living man, with just his beer and his motorbike has upped and moved to the moon to live in a communal household? And no one seems to think this is in any way weird?*

    Also getting the first Animal Farm vibes. All mutants are created equal, just some are more equal than others? We have clear royalty now.

    *no problem with the poly, but if he’d got a cabin in the woods with a portal to the Barbarella Love cave (tm) Pandafarmer, that would make sense
    Last edited by Su_Whisterfield; 10-18-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  6. #1041
    Mighty Member tuck frump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1,609

    Default

    Hes lived at the mansion for decades. Why would this be weird?

  7. #1042
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Well Xavier acknowledged that making a nation is dirty work and I can get behind that idea. They won't make themselves be heard by being softies. A gift would have made humans think they are weak or put them in a position of servility towards humans while they actually don't owe them much in my opinion. I mean, Wakanda probably has had the cure for cancer for years and they're not even sharing lol I don't see why Krakoa selling their drugs is a bad thing as much as any other country selling natural resources.
    That's the thing: I never said Wakanda witholding Cancer from everyone wasn't just as morally-bankrupt as Kraked dangling a cure above the heads of people needing it to get what they want. It's even worse in the Wakandan case given they didn't trade the cure as the Kraked are doing as far as I know...
    My point is the Kraked are acting like every other country around the world before them with such tactics, which is ironic given they spend their waking time pretending they are better than the rest of humanity around them.
    Is it dirty? Yes.
    Is it necessary? Yes.
    Those two aren't mutually exclusive. To me, it's realpolitik.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    This is like saying "Well, mutant need a world where humanity isn't trying to work out ways to wipe them out all the time."

    Feels like you are trying to hold mutants to a standard you are not holding humanity to.
    Because I'm saying mutants are using dirty tactics to get what they want I'm holding them to a higher standard than the rest of humanity all of a sudden? How does that work exactly?
    First off, what I said is that the FACT they are bargaining with those drugs - ergo, with the lives of thousands if not millions of people who desperately need them - all so they could get what they want is no different than what other countries on Earth are doing or have done in the past... So, if anything, I'm actually holding the Kraked to the same standard than everyone else by pointing that out.
    They are playing dirty just like my country or your country and others have done in the past and keep doing.
    No difference.
    Second of all, if I was tongue-in-cheek, I would ask why exactly a group of people presenting themselves to the world as "THE SUPERIOR RACE" - for 13 issues straight now - shouldn't be held to a higher standard as a result anyway... It's quite ironic to make such a complaint here, but luckily it's a pointless hypothetical since, like I told you earlier, I wasn't holding them to an higher standard to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To me, this just seem like the most sensible way to go about dealing with the people you are dealing with. Any attempt at talking about "Fair Is Fair..." when Sentinels exist is just beyond silly.
    The Kraked are doing realpolitik with the way they leverage the drugs to gain what they want, just like every other country do on Earth so yes, fair is fair. What is the point you are trying to make exactly? That given what the mutants went through in the past (since you mentionned Sentinels, I suppose this is where you wanted to go), making that particular bargain to sapiens isn't morally reprehensible as a result?
    Because it is. Imagine a country IRL having the AIDS cure, or the Cancer cure, or any kind of cure from a worldwide disease such as those, bargaining said cures in exchange of gaining Something for them (here sovereignity) that they never had.
    Would this cause applause or uproar? Would this cause understanding or controversy? Be honest.
    Cynical (extremely), morally foul, in one word: dirty.
    Which is ok, like I said, other countries are doing this kind of move all the time. And it's just as shady and dirty as this particular move.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  8. #1043

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    The drugs are a want in the sense that, If they rejected the deal. The Human species would go on dealing with the issues like they always have in the past. Yes the drugs are greatly helpful but in terms of being "blackmailed" which was being discussed. It is not a need and the deal is very rejectable. It is a very sci-fi question but if aliens came and offer that deal to earth now but the offer was to give up half of the landmass on earth for those things. The answer would be no. Humans want better cures, medicine and longer life but if the deal is bad they don't have to accept. It is vast vast upgrade but it is an upgrade none the less. You don't need upgrades you want upgrades. Electricity and tech aren't needs even though they have vastly improved life. Those drugs are in that same category they are clear upgrades but humans, in general, can survive without that change. That is why I said it is not a need in the context of that conversation. Remember the convo was blackmail and answer could easily been no your offer would greatly help us and save millions but we think the terms are too high and we will move on like we always have done.

    Now with that of the way considering what the drugs can do the terms of the deal was fair. They could have asked more land, global rules for the treatment of mutants, etc, they just asked for recognition as a nation and any mutant born be consider citizens of Krakoa. And given what it would do for humans that is a fair trade. Some people were calling it blackmail no thats when medical companies jack up the insulin and other meds without other sources to make profits that is blackmail. Krakoa is an island with mutants on it and is already a nation for the price of improving millions of lives some high cost to pay for the small price of something that is already a thing? And some can correct me if a wrong but are scientists and doctors out here giving away there medicines and technology advancement away for free? Is the general practice to get some benefit from making something that helps? This wasn't even dirty commerce Krakoa actually undersold what they could have gotten for the medicine.
    There is something else I noticed, they want to keep the price of the drugs affordable, not only that they want to control the black market so the black market drugs are also affordable. They are doing this so treaty countries can't stockpile the drugs and then sell them to non-treaty countries at a massive markup. Since Krakoa controls the black market they can keep it flooded with enough drugs that the prices don't get high and people in non-treaty countries can afford to get the drugs.

    This is kind of an altruistic approach to business because they aren't looking to make insane profits off each individual purchase. They are counting on selling billions at a very small profit, but that small profit adds up into a lot of financial income coming to Krakoa. Of course Emma and the Hellfire Trading Company are probably getting around 50%+ of the profit margin because they are handling all shipping and transport.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  9. #1044

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    That's the thing: I never said Wakanda witholding Cancer from everyone wasn't just as morally-bankrupt as Kraked dangling a cure above the heads of people needing it to get what they want. It's even worse in the Wakandan case given they didn't trade the cure as the Kraked are doing as far as I know...
    My point is the Kraked are acting like every other country around the world before them with such tactics, which is ironic given they spend their waking time pretending they are better than the rest of humanity around them.
    Is it dirty? Yes.
    Is it necessary? Yes.
    Those two aren't mutually exclusive. To me, it's realpolitik.



    Because I'm saying mutants are using dirty tactics to get what they want I'm holding them to a higher standard than the rest of humanity all of a sudden? How does that work exactly?
    First off, what I said is that the FACT they are bargaining with those drugs - ergo, with the lives of thousands if not millions of people who desperately need them - all so they could get what they want is no different than what other countries on Earth are doing or have done in the past... So, if anything, I'm actually holding the Kraked to the same standard than everyone else by pointing that out.
    They are playing dirty just like my country or your country and others have done in the past and keep doing.
    No difference.
    Second of all, if I was tongue-in-cheek, I would ask why exactly a group of people presenting themselves to the world as "THE SUPERIOR RACE" - for 13 issues straight now - shouldn't be held to a higher standard as a result anyway... It's quite ironic to make such a complaint here, but luckily it's a pointless hypothetical since, like I told you earlier, I wasn't holding them to an higher standard to begin with.



    The Kraked are doing realpolitik with the way they leverage the drugs to gain what they want, just like every other country do on Earth so yes, fair is fair. What is the point you are trying to make exactly? That given what the mutants went through in the past (since you mentionned Sentinels, I suppose this is where you wanted to go), making that particular bargain to sapiens isn't morally reprehensible as a result?
    Because it is. Imagine a country IRL having the AIDS cure, or the Cancer cure, or any kind of cure from a worldwide disease such as those, bargaining said cures in exchange of gaining Something for them (here sovereignity) that they never had.
    Would this cause applause or uproar? Would this cause understanding or controversy? Be honest.
    Cynical (extremely), morally foul, in one word: dirty.
    Which is ok, like I said, other countries are doing this kind of move all the time. And it's just as shady and dirty as this particular move.
    Actually it wouldn't cause an uproar because governments have controlled the distribution of life saving drugs that are patented under their jurisdiction all the time. It's not like Krakoa is overpricing their medical drugs, they are forcibly keeping the prices from spiking by controlling all markets and prevent people from using the black market to sell the drugs at a horrendous profit because Krakoa is flooding the black market to prevent overpricing.

    When was the last time any pharmaceutical company in the world deliberately price controlled their critical medicines at low cost? Honestly never. Companies are buying up other pharmaceutical companies with approval from US, EU, and other world politicians, gaining control of the patents, and then marking up drugs like Insulin and the Epipen to insane levels because they have a trapped market of people who need those life saving drugs.

    To me the mutant government of Krakoa is being more than fair, they are price controlling their medicines to be affordable to everyone and they are taking steps to make sure overpricing does not happen in areas outside of their jurisdiction.
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  10. #1045
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,788

    Default

    A country pays millions even billions of dollars in money into research for a drug or cure Cancer or Aids but is dirty for asking something in return? How do they make back the money spent to make the cure? How do they get more money to research for other cures? People need to learn the difference between asking for a fair return on investment or unfairly holding up something that can help people. I see the problem for some reason feel entitled to stuff, You see it with humans going to Krakoa and now see with drugs. No, you are not entitled to things that you haven't created. Nothing has to be given to you.

    But if we are talking about morals what is more moral than helping your people? What country again was looking out for mutants when they try to commit genocide via a cure again? Explain why Xavier, Magento, and Moria would prioritize the world over mutants? Especially when making the world helping mutants helps the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    There is something else I noticed, they want to keep the price of the drugs affordable, not only that they want to control the black market so the black market drugs are also affordable. They are doing this so treaty countries can't stockpile the drugs and then sell them to non-treaty countries at a massive markup. Since Krakoa controls the black market they can keep it flooded with enough drugs that the prices don't get high and people in non-treaty countries can afford to get the drugs.

    This is kind of an altruistic approach to business because they aren't looking to make insane profits off each individual purchase. They are counting on selling billions at a very small profit, but that small profit adds up into a lot of financial income coming to Krakoa. Of course Emma and the Hellfire Trading Company are probably getting around 50%+ of the profit margin because they are handling all shipping and transport.
    Yeah, they want as many people to have the drugs as possible(One of the big point of drugs is to slow down humanity from reaching post-humanity quicker). Honestly, the most effective way to use drug would have been to hold back and individually bribe politicians and powerful people and maximize the profit so Krakoa is the economic power in the world. If they were trying to be bad they far are more malicious ways to use the drugs.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-18-2019 at 06:22 AM.

  11. #1046
    Fantastic Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Why? Is she not allowed to fuck more than one man?
    She is not. Seems like an unspoken rule, really. Not my rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I know I'm jumping into this discussion randomly, but is your argument really humans don't need a cure for cancer and degenerative brain diseases?
    They need them, but they don't have any right to them.

  12. #1047
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,784

    Default

    omg hilarious.
    also gross.

  13. #1048
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Hes lived at the mansion for decades. Why would this be weird?
    the mansion isnt the same thing as the personal Summers family home on the moon

  14. #1049
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    9,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    the mansion isnt the same thing as the personal Summers family home on the moon
    And he has his own family, a bunch of kids. Anyone would think he would live with them

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    She is not. Seems like an unspoken rule, really. Not my rule.
    .
    that is valid for everyone.
    Zethrimon unblock me

  15. #1050
    Fantastic Member Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post

    that is valid for everyone.
    Not really. Obviously, we know Cyclops has had many different pairings, and most of the other pop characters have had different romantic links over their histories.

    This guy Bobby Drake was in like 5 different ships before he finally figured himself out.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •