View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  • ★★★★★

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  • ★★★

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  1. #1186

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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    True, we were about to get better quality and a direction on x-books. Hickman happened because he was slated for a long time to write X books.

    why do discussions if we can't really discuss the book? we have to deal with positive and negative.

    13 issues should be more than enough to form a opinion, sure it can always change. That is part of liking a ongoing work, many things I didn't liked and started liking
    Ok fair enough Spirit, I like House of X, I like Powers of X. I like the changes in Moira's history and I think it makes her a more interesting and dynamic character. I am looking forward to reading the Lives of Moira X that is going to come out sometime next year.

    As for Dawn of X, although I didn't like the art much in X-Men #1, I thought the dialogue and the character development was great. I really liked the camaraderie between Lorna and Scott, I liked them showing that Storm is under a lot of stress trying to save mutants world wide. I liked that they showed Erik kind of letting his ego get out of hand, but at the same time showing genuine compassion, empathy, and concern for the children of Krakoa. I liked the glimpse we were given of the people in the Summer House, it's just a small glimpse to let us know they are all living together, but I am really happy that Scott, Jean, Nathan, and Rachel are spending time together, even if it is mostly off panel.

    The preview I saw of Marauders is exciting and I am so looking forward to the character interplay between Emma, Kate, Storm, Bobby, Bishop, and Pyro. I think this is going to be a really fun book, and I also think it's going to be one of the books that really showcases a gay relationship and possible love triangle from three out gay characters, Bobby, Pyro, and Christian Frost.

    All of the upcoming art for Excalibur, New Mutants, X-Force, and Fallen Angels looks great. I also love that so many artists are feeling inspired by Jean and Emma and showcasing their presence in Dawn of X, for the first time in a long time, two of my favourite X-women get to be side by side in the X-books without taking anything away from each other. And the we are going to see all the X-women having a chance to shine going forward Jean, Emma, Storm, Betsy, Rogue, Kate, Illyana, Dani, Xi'an, etc...

    So you are quite welcome to be negative if that is your choice. I can't stop you from being negative. But I am looking forward to the new direction and I am hoping it lasts for years to come.
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  2. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    When I was punching minorities?

    When I said it is not possible or OOC, it is because it is truth. Try to force something that doesn't fit character only screw up what you are trying to do
    What makes it out of character other than your opinion though. Or rather what makes it forced. There are many individuals who live most their lives in straight relationships and then all of a sudden something changes or they evolve and want to experience new things and do. Or should character growth be limited only to what you like?

    Do you feel Bobby is perverted and it's not possible for him to have come out as a gay character? If not what makes Jean's evolution (if she even is with two men) so impossible?
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  3. #1188
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    What makes it out of character other than your opinion though. Or rather what makes it forced. There are many individuals who live most their lives in straight relationships and then all of a sudden something changes or they evolve and want to experience new things and do. Or should character growth be limited only to what you like?

    Do you feel Bobby is perverted and it's not possible for him to have come out as a gay character? If not what makes Jean's evolution (if she even is with two men) so impossible?
    Bobby being gay have been teased for decades, the development didn't came from nowhere,

    Evolve means a lot of things, but OOC shouldn't justified by "oh things happened and then they changed".
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  4. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Bobby being gay have been teased for decades, the development didn't came from nowhere,

    Evolve means a lot of things, but OOC shouldn't justified by "oh things happened and then they changed".
    Jean having an undeniable connection to Logan is also something that has been blatantly shown over the years. Is it so hard to believe that someone who died and came back may have a different lease on life. Is it so impossible to think Scott and Jean could love each other but still want something different as long as all involved know. What makes it so impossible or forced?
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  5. #1190
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    What makes it out of character other than your opinion though. Or rather what makes it forced. There are many individuals who live most their lives in straight relationships and then all of a sudden something changes or they evolve and want to experience new things and do. Or should character growth be limited only to what you like?

    Do you feel Bobby is perverted and it's not possible for him to have come out as a gay character? If not what makes Jean's evolution (if she even is with two men) so impossible?
    Well, as someone that doesn't have a problem with polyamory relationships, both Scott and Jean has been consistenly showed as monogamist, so they agreeing to something like this is not something that we ever expected. Now, you mention how people can change with time and that's true, but there is a big difference between real people and comic book characthers, mainly that more often than not we know what this characthers are thinking, we probably know our favs better, than their in-universe close friends. That's an advantage that we don't have in real life, we don't know what our close ones are thinking unless they share it (and even then they can let things out), when we see someone acting "OCC" in real life is mostly because we don't have access to their headspace, when you actually know what they were thinking and hear their sides, it made a lot more sense. So having this 3 reaching that agreetment without any sort of build up is going to feel cheap no matter what. Speaking for myself, based in their personal story, i can't even imagine Jean and Scott approaching Logan with an idea like this, but i'm willing to be convinced if Hickman(or anyone) writes a good story that make it see from the other point of view.
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  6. #1191
    Mighty Member tuck frump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Well, as someone that doesn't have a problem with polyamory relationships, both Scott and Jean has been consistenly showed as monogamist
    Lmao their entire history has been plagued by one of them pinning after someone else. Madelyne, Logan, Emma... + if we take time displaced versions, X-23, Bloodstorm, Jimmy, Beast...

  7. #1192
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Lmao their entire history has been plagued by one of them pinning after someone else. Madelyne, Logan, Emma... + if we take time displaced versions, X-23, Bloodstorm, Jimmy, Beast...
    Nothing to do with poliamor. Jean was never really tempted by Logan and madelyne looked and sounded exactly like Jean

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Well, as someone that doesn't have a problem with polyamory relationships, both Scott and Jean has been consistenly showed as monogamist, so they agreeing to something like this is not something that we ever expected. Now, you mention how people can change with time and that's true, but there is a big difference between real people and comic book characthers, mainly that more often than not we know what this characthers are thinking, we probably know our favs better, than their in-universe close friends. That's an advantage that we don't have in real life, we don't know what our close ones are thinking unless they share it (and even then they can let things out), when we see someone acting "OCC" in real life is mostly because we don't have access to their headspace, when you actually know what they were thinking and hear their sides, it made a lot more sense. So having this 3 reaching that agreetment without any sort of build up is going to feel cheap no matter what. Speaking for myself, based in their personal story, i can't even imagine Jean and Scott approaching Logan with an idea like this, but i'm willing to be convinced if Hickman(or anyone) writes a good story that make it see from the other point of view.
    I don't think there is a way to write the story that doesn't make it sound OOC. The story between these 3 characters goes for too long for a writer just change it
    Last edited by spirit2011; 10-20-2019 at 09:12 AM.
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  8. #1193
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Well, as someone that doesn't have a problem with polyamory relationships, both Scott and Jean has been consistenly showed as monogamist, so they agreeing to something like this is not something that we ever expected. Now, you mention how people can change with time and that's true, but there is a big difference between real people and comic book characthers, mainly that more often than not we know what this characthers are thinking, we probably know our favs better, than their in-universe close friends. That's an advantage that we don't have in real life, we don't know what our close ones are thinking unless they share it (and even then they can let things out), when we see someone acting "OCC" in real life is mostly because we don't have access to their headspace, when you actually know what they were thinking and hear their sides, it made a lot more sense. So having this 3 reaching that agreetment without any sort of build up is going to feel cheap no matter what. Speaking for myself, based in their personal story, i can't even imagine Jean and Scott approaching Logan with an idea like this, but i'm willing to be convinced if Hickman(or anyone) writes a good story that make it see from the other point of view.
    I can see the point but I think that's also part of the problem. The character don't write themselves they are written by different writers who give them a voice. So given the history laid out. Jean and Logan gave kissed several times. Scott never took that out on Jean. Jean walked in on Emma and Scott and she didn't take that out on Scott. Logan knows Jean loves Scott but still wants her. Emma loves Scott but knows he loves Jean too. All of these characters are stubborn. So given those plain facts is it so unbelievable a writer or even the characters may be like screw the drama it's a new world and wwe want to live or to ask themselves. Well why not? We can't tie writers hands when the basis are there and force ownership on these characters .
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  9. #1194
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I can see the point but I think that's also part of the problem. The character don't write themselves they are written by different writers who give them a voice. So given the history laid out. Jean and Logan gave kissed several times. Scott never took that out on Jean. Jean walked in on Emma and Scott and she didn't take that out on Scott. Logan knows Jean loves Scott but still wants her. Emma loves Scott but knows he loves Jean too. All of these characters are stubborn. So given those plain facts is it so unbelievable a writer or even the characters may be like screw the drama it's a new world and wwe want to live or to ask themselves. Well why not? We can't tie writers hands when the basis are there and force ownership on these characters .
    There isn't any basis here. I just see some opportunity for drama.
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  10. #1195
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    I can see the point but I think that's also part of the problem. The character don't write themselves they are written by different writers who give them a voice. So given the history laid out. Jean and Logan gave kissed several times. Scott never took that out on Jean. Jean walked in on Emma and Scott and she didn't take that out on Scott. Logan knows Jean loves Scott but still wants her. Emma loves Scott but knows he loves Jean too. All of these characters are stubborn. So given those plain facts is it so unbelievable a writer or even the characters may be like screw the drama it's a new world and wwe want to live or to ask themselves. Well why not? We can't tie writers hands when the basis are there and force ownership on these characters .
    If one of those things that comes down to personal opinion, i think that people should approach like DeMatteis does, put your own spin, but don't do anything that goes against their core values, but even that is not a perfect solution, because not every writer agreed with what those actually are beyond saving people. Hell, in spite of mentioning J.D as an example and enjoy hisnSpider-Man i actually disagreed partially with his take, even when he wrote my favorite Spider-Man story at all time. So i guest that it comes down to personal interpretation. Based in what i had seen, Scott and Jean wouldn't want to spend more time with Logan than necessary and Logan is smart enough to avoid the outside field work and get on with his own life, even if a part seems to be unable to completly forget his feelings for Jean. But at the end, that's my view, i'm not going to criticize anyone that see it differently, but i think so far i remain unconvinced that this would be their solution, feel free to disagreed of course.
    Last edited by TheCape; 10-20-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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  11. #1196
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    There isn't any basis here. I just see some opportunity for drama.
    How is there not a basis.

    Scott slept with Emma, Jean walked in and didn't leave Scott. She died before resoltion.
    Scott has seen Jean and Wolverine kiss several times but he never left Jean over it.
    Logan and Emma both know Scott and Jean love other people but they still want them despite that and both have shown they will be with them even if they are with someone else.

    So how is there no basis for it? It's all right there and up to the writer to intreret how to handle the conflict. If all are okay there is no drama outside of the fact that you choose to want it. Or the ground work is right there for why and how they could get into an open relationship and the only people to potentially get hurt being Emma/Logan which they know what they are getting with Scott and Jean.
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  12. #1197
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    If one of those things that comes down to personal opinion, i think that people should approach like DeMatteis does, put your own spin, but don't do anything that goes against their core values, but even that is not a perfect solution, because not every writer agreed with what those actually are beyond saving people. Hell, in spite of mentioning J.D as an example and enjoy hisnSpider-Man i actually disagreed partially with his take, even when he wrote my favorite Spider-Man story at all time. So i guest that it comes down to personal interpretation. Based in what i had seen, Scott and Jean wouldn't want to spend more time with Logan than necessary and Logan is smart not to avoid the outside field work and get on with his own life, even if a part seems to be unable to completly forget his feelings for Jean. But at the end, that's my view, i'm not going to criticize anyone that see it differently, but i think so far i remain unconvinced that this would be their solution, feel free to disagreed of course.
    I think someone can say that Logan got over Jean decades ago, but for stories reasons it comes back like Schism.
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  13. #1198
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    If one of those things that comes down to personal opinion, i think that people should approach like DeMatteis does, put your own spin, but don't do anything that goes against their core values, but even that is not a perfect solution, because not every writer agreed with what those actually are beyond saving people. Hell, in spite of mentioning J.D as an example and enjoy hisnSpider-Man i actually disagreed partially with his take, even when he wrote my favorite Spider-Man story at all time. So i guest that it comes down to personal interpretation. Based in what i had seen, Scott and Jean wouldn't want to spend more time with Logan than necessary and Logan is smart not to avoid the outside field work and get on with his own life, even if a part seems to be unable to completly forget his feelings for Jean. But at the end, that's my view, i'm not going to criticize anyone that see it differently, but i think so far i remain unconvinced that this would be their solution, feel free to disagreed of course.
    Can't argue personal opinion but i respect that you can say it's personal opinion and that doesn't invalidate the opinion at all. It makes sense based on what your perception of their relationship is.

    For all we know Logan is there as measure to take out Vulcan who is obviously an Omega Level mutant with the mind of a teen.
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  14. #1199
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I think someone can say that Logan got over Jean decades ago, but for stories reasons it comes back like Schism.
    How did he get over her when his last memories were of Jean in Death of Logan. Perhaps you missed the collective head shakes from some Storm fans since they were being pimped as a couple at the time. She didn't even warrant a mention.
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  15. #1200
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    How did he get over her when his last memories were of Jean in Death of Logan. Perhaps you missed the collective head shakes from some Storm fans since they were being pimped as a couple at the time. She didn't even warrant a mention.
    He married and dated a lot of women meanwhile. And Mariko death had a longer impact on him that Jean. jean he seemed to be more pissed how Scott mistreat Jean

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    How is there not a basis.

    Scott slept with Emma, Jean walked in and didn't leave Scott. She died before resoltion.
    Scott has seen Jean and Wolverine kiss several times but he never left Jean over it.
    Logan and Emma both know Scott and Jean love other people but they still want them despite that and both have shown they will be with them even if they are with someone else.

    So how is there no basis for it? It's all right there and up to the writer to intreret how to handle the conflict. If all are okay there is no drama outside of the fact that you choose to want it. Or the ground work is right there for why and how they could get into an open relationship and the only people to potentially get hurt being Emma/Logan which they know what they are getting with Scott and Jean.
    Jean didn't leave Scott, but she didn't agree with it and never wanted to join them, So this is out

    Scott has seen Jean and Wolverine kiss several times but he never left Jean over it.

    Scott thought it was ok because Wolverine kissed jean and of course she never responded to it, and always come back to Scott without any problem or conflict.
    so this is refuted too

    Logan and Emma both know Scott and Jean love other people but they still want them despite that and both have shown they will be with them even if they are with someone else.

    none of these seems confortable with sharing. Specially Logan that went to marry the love of his life mariko and she is back;

    this is a whole of wrong interpretations, not facts
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