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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Amazons and the origins

    I'm curious so far we have Aphrodite making them and the gods we reincarnating them. But what if it started off has mortal women? That the way they became the Amazons was because of the female goddesses? That all the main goddesses were calling them to start a new movement? I one don't want this to be the mainline origin rather an elsewhere story. A what-if story.

  2. #2
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    In the Golden Age (Likely Silver Age and Bronze age too), they were just a tribe of women. I don't think its ever implied they were created, though Hippolyta is still somehow immortal (Though in the Silver Age, Wonder Woman is also thousands of years old).

    FYI, the Golden Age origin is the only origin to the Amazons I like.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    In the Golden Age (Likely Silver Age and Bronze age too), they were just a tribe of women. I don't think its ever implied they were created, though Hippolyta is still somehow immortal (Though in the Silver Age, Wonder Woman is also thousands of years old).

    FYI, the Golden Age origin is the only origin to the Amazons I like.
    Wonder Woman #1 has the following panel:

    Wonder Woman - The Golden Age - c011x2 (v01) - p146.jpg

    So from the beginning the Amazons were the direct creation of Aphrodite.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Wonder Woman #1 has the following panel:

    Wonder Woman - The Golden Age - c011x2 (v01) - p146.jpg

    So from the beginning the Amazons were the direct creation of Aphrodite.
    Okay, I must have head cannoned them to be regular women. Whenever I think of Golden Age Amazons I go to Wonder Woman #9 and in that issue they kind of are just an all-woman tribe.

    I would prefer it if they were regular women though. They don't gain anything from being created, if anything, it takes a lot of things away. If they're created beings then their value system and achievements matter less.

    I reread the pertinent content from Wonder Woman #1 and the story just has some issues. How does Aphrodite elevate women by creating a stronger, distinct form of woman? This also conflicts with some later Golden Age stories where Amazons are shown to be stronger because of their training. (This is probably another reason why I thought the amazons were just normal people. Its the same sort of logic I apply to Wonder Woman's current powers and how they make no sense, since she's still a demi-god, but in Rebirth she receives her powers from the gods, meaning she is essentially a demi-god with no powers. [Though maybe if one is desperate enough, they can claim the gods "unlocked" her powers])
    Last edited by Pinsir; 10-17-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    This is the only origin of the Amazons I care about.

    cw015.jpg

    cw016.jpg

    It's simple, poetic and doesn't need improving.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Mythology has Hippolyta and her sisters as the daughters of Ares. Any thoughts?

    Like, the Perez version had the Amazons as ressurected souls of killed women. Maybe the original of Hippolyta was the daughter of Ares?

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    My take on the Greek mythology is that it should be a source of inspiration, but not taken as a given. Generally, I find that Greek mythology stories in Wonder Woman works best when it is viewed through and reimagined using a feminist lens (other lenses might also work well, like using intersectionality or queer theory). In-story this can easily be handwaved, with the ancient Greeks being mistaken about the Amazons and their relationship with the gods.

    Another option would be to do a thorough reimagining of Ares, but since he has turned into a staple villain it won't work. And Azzarellos' attempt to reimagine Ares soured me a lot on that route.

    I'm not that fond of the Pérez origin. It's grand and mythical, but it has too many moving parts and makes Diana into a pawn in a story about conflicts between gods. In a way, in Pérez's run it isn't Diana who gets the origin story, it is the Amazons.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Okay, I must have head cannoned them to be regular women. Whenever I think of Golden Age Amazons I go to Wonder Woman #9 and in that issue they kind of are just an all-woman tribe.

    I would prefer it if they were regular women though. They don't gain anything from being created, if anything, it takes a lot of things away. If they're created beings then their value system and achievements matter less.

    I reread the pertinent content from Wonder Woman #1 and the story just has some issues. How does Aphrodite elevate women by creating a stronger, distinct form of woman? This also conflicts with some later Golden Age stories where Amazons are shown to be stronger because of their training. (This is probably another reason why I thought the amazons were just normal people. Its the same sort of logic I apply to Wonder Woman's current powers and how they make no sense, since she's still a demi-god, but in Rebirth she receives her powers from the gods, meaning she is essentially a demi-god with no powers. [Though maybe if one is desperate enough, they can claim the gods "unlocked" her powers])
    Most demigods in Greek mythology didn't inherit any powers. Achilles himself was born of a sea goddess and only received powers after he was dipped in the River Styx.

  9. #9
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Mythology has Hippolyta and her sisters as the daughters of Ares. Any thoughts?
    I don't think it vibes well with the Amazons as we know them. They're already a far cry with the mythological version as is, so I don't feel any need to bring them closer to it. That just leads to Azzarello territory.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I don't think it vibes well with the Amazons as we know them. They're already a far cry with the mythological version as is, so I don't feel any need to bring them closer to it. That just leads to Azzarello territory.
    There are pieces of the mythological Amazons that I'd like to see integrated. Top of the list is the first Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, which Callimachus credits to the Amazons. That implies a lot closer relation between Artemis and the Amazons than is the case right now.

    I'd also like to see the Amazons with pants, and clothes in various patterns, as they are depicted on Greek vases.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    WW_4_12_13.0.jpg

    Pants were common among Amazons in Rebirth and WW #75.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Another origin I had is since Artemis is known as the goddess of childbirth and motherhood is that she recused the Amazons because they were made orphans. Ancient Greece and other places were normal for abandoning baby girls

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Most demigods in Greek mythology didn't inherit any powers. Achilles himself was born of a sea goddess and only received powers after he was dipped in the River Styx.
    That's true, but Wonder Woman comics were never a 1 for 1 duplicate of Greek mythology (If it were, Hippolyta would be dead). Just in the context of Wonder Woman stories alone, it is implied that you get powers from being a demi-god. Her siblings have super powers derived from being demi-gods (Jason, Hercules, Lennox) and in the New 52 run, she does too.

    Then again, Cassie Sandmark got her powers because original Zeus gives them to her, but later its revealed that she is his daughter (though this is probably a retcon).

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