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  1. #31
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I actually agree that naked Bane just feels weird and unnecessary. But shirtless Bruce feels like an homage to the Ra's sword fight.
    It probably is, but I just don't feel like it adds anything to this specific encounter between Batman and Bane. They don't have the dynamic Bruce and Ra's do and it felt classier when Bruce and Ra's did it.

    To me it just comes off like two macho men overcompensating for something. But, again, that's just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I think he answered it on twitter. "If you have a body like that wouldn't you be naked all the time?" or something along those lines.
    ...no :P?

  2. #32
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyxx1481 View Post
    I recall back in the days of the Secret Six house Bane was sometimes naked. That team had no shame.
    To be fair, the only time I really remember Bane being naked was not during fight scenes, but more sleeping in the buff or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It probably is, but I just don't feel like it adds anything to this specific encounter between Batman and Bane. They don't have the dynamic Bruce and Ra's do and it felt classier when Bruce and Ra's did it.

    To me it just comes off like two macho men overcompensating for something. But, again, that's just me.
    I mean...aren't most male superheros, but particularly Batman, Superman, and Wolverine macho men fantasies?

    I must admit, I still get taken aback when I see Batman with the cowl but with his shirt off, fighting Ra's. Taking everything above the waist off like here makes a lot more sense to me.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I mean...aren't most male superheros, but particularly Batman, Superman, and Wolverine macho men fantasies?

    I must admit, I still get taken aback when I see Batman with the cowl but with his shirt off, fighting Ra's. Taking everything above the waist off like here makes a lot more sense to me.
    I mean, you can definitely see that in them, but sometimes I think it can be a bit much.

    To be honest, I think Batman prefers keeping the cowl on. It completes the look .

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of the bare chest it's not the 70's or whatever era hairy was in vogue.
    I think the bare-chested fighting is kind cheesy, and Batman looks goofy on the occasions Batman is shirtless with cowl on. But I'm against the shaming of hairy chests (and he's not very hairy in this one) and actually kinda glad to see more variety in shirtless heroes' body-hair grooming (including live-action). Don't especially like the art in general here, though it's nothing horrible, either.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I've never heard anyone really commenting on the Bruce/Ra's fight attire before, compared to all the rage here.
    Probably because the original story of them fighting is old and this is a new thing happening in 2019.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    Probably because the original story of them fighting is old and this is a new thing happening in 2019.
    Absolutely. Mostly people don't chat as much about old stuff as current stuff.

    Also, when you see something you don't particularly like, but it's in a run you generally like, it's much more likely to be forgotten or forgive than when it's just one more thing in a string of things you don't like. Not straw-that-breaks-camel's back, but just more crap piling on crap v. a tiny bit of manure in a beautiful garden.

  7. #37
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, you can definitely see that in them, but sometimes I think it can be a bit much.

    To be honest, I think Batman prefers keeping the cowl on. It completes the look .
    I guess what is "a bit much" really comes down to what takes us out of the story or not. At this point, it doesn't really take me out, but I can see how it would. But it doesn't seem like the kind of thing to trigger such vitriol, just a "that's silly."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    Probably because the original story of them fighting is old and this is a new thing happening in 2019.
    I've been around for a while, and I've seen people discussing the classic story and the BTAS episode based on it, and it's never really come up for this kind of negative comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I think the bare-chested fighting is kind cheesy, and Batman looks goofy on the occasions Batman is shirtless with cowl on. But I'm against the shaming of hairy chests (and he's not very hairy in this one) and actually kinda glad to see more variety in shirtless heroes' body-hair grooming (including live-action). Don't especially like the art in general here, though it's nothing horrible, either.
    Cheesy can be good. Like mac and cheesy!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  8. #38
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    At this point you seem to be one of a handful of people still defending this run. The stories have been poorly constructed and executed and one more thing that makes zero sense is going to set fans off because it's just a continuous pileup of nonsense. The communicating through violence is probably one of the worst things to come out of this run though. I honestly feel like King HATES Batman and sees him as a complete piece of crap because that's how he's written him. If you still don't see that by this point then nothing anyone else says on here is going to change your mind. Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't discuss but saying you don't understand why fans are reacting this way shows that you are likely to never understand and that's fine.

  9. #39
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I guess what is "a bit much" really comes down to what takes us out of the story or not. At this point, it doesn't really take me out, but I can see how it would. But it doesn't seem like the kind of thing to trigger such vitriol, just a "that's silly."
    Maybe it's just with how he's built up to it in this run with his characterization/depiction of Bruce and Bane that just makes it too much for me.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I don't understand why some King fans insist on claiming victimisation every time something in his run is criticised.

    Tastes vary. Don't widely accuse others without proof and try to be open minded.

    I'm not a fan of the bare chest it's not the 70's or whatever era hairy was in vogue. I will however go for Dick out sword fighting please.

    I have looked at the comments on this thread.
    I don't see anybody claiming victimization of King's run at all.
    Generalizing certain fans is not a good thing to do and comes off a bit divisive.
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  11. #41
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    I think he meant how Miller talked about no one getting upset about the shirtless thing when O'Neil did it but they don't like it now. It could be seen as claiming King is a victim to unfair hate. He also said "some" King fans, not all. So it's not a generalization so much as it is an observation.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It probably is, but I just don't feel like it adds anything to this specific encounter between Batman and Bane. They don't have the dynamic Bruce and Ra's do and it felt classier when Bruce and Ra's did it.

    To me it just comes off like two macho men overcompensating for something. But, again, that's just me.

    ...no :P?
    I think King makes it fairly explicit that this is the correct read. They're not overcompensating for what you're insinuating, but all of the machismo IS overcompensation!

    It's the biggest theme in the entire run. Both Bane and Batman are addicted to projecting macho power to hide their feelings of incompleteness.
    Last edited by gregpersons; 10-18-2019 at 02:18 PM.

  13. #43
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I think King makes it fairly explicit that this is the correct read. They're not overcompensating for what you're insinuating, but all of the machismo IS overcompensation!

    It's the biggest theme in the entire run. Both Bane and Batman are addicted to projecting macho power to hide their feelings of incompleteness.
    Nice take! I agree!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  14. #44
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I think King makes it fairly explicit that this is the correct read. They're not overcompensating for what you're insinuating, but all of the machismo IS overcompensation!

    It's the biggest theme in the entire run. Both Bane and Batman are addicted to projecting macho power to hide their feelings of incompleteness.
    That's not a very flattering portrayal of Batman and Bane, and one I don't really agree with, but I also can't argue that that's been what King has been trying to portray either.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's not a very flattering portrayal of Batman and Bane, and one I don't really agree with, but I also can't argue that that's been what King has been trying to portray either.
    King's entire run is an unflattering portrayal of Batman.

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