New Avengers #22 *spoilers*

[Ekie]

In other words, Hickman is putting them in a position where they HAD to do this. Because it's not like Reed or Strange have never dealt with interdimensional crises before, or that Reed has whipped out a super-device that solves the problem, or that Strange is the freaking Sorcerer Supreme, etc." It's just not all that convincing that THIS is the incident where they cannot solve the problem without resorting to genocide, given what they've dealt with in the past. Why is THIS time so different, that hasn't really been explained very well? It's like OMD in a way, a writer crowbarring things in just because he once to reach a certain outcome, not because it makes sense in the context of the universe. He wants to "dirty" these characters up, and will do so no matter how contrived the scenario comes across as.

Your just ignoring the story though. Yes Strange is the sorcerer supreme. But there are millions of them on different universes who have also failed. There isn't a comparable problem that any of these heros have delt with and Hickman has done a great job of showing how out of their league they are with this issue

[Trident]

you admit that you don't know anything about his power ups

then admit that you don't know that he HASN'T been peak human most of his career..

and end it with the fact that you think his glowing claws were tech when that's prolly not the case.

....?

....Are we sure that BP got any power ups outside of talking to his dead relatives? Nothing he really has done so far suggest that he is above peak human. Maybe in terms of a agility but that's hard to say cause we seen guys like Cap do similar feats....

[Victor Freeman]

He has spent most of his career being peak human though, and whatever power ups he's gotten since the Bast upgrade haven't been very well defined.

On the other hand, he was wearing glowy tech gloves. And if you're wearing glowy tech gloves, you can beat the living hell out of whatever you want. That's just science.

It doesn't matter what he spent most of his career after being down graded by certain writers. What matters is his current incarnation and Hickman has said from the start that he's Superhuman. Either you accept it or not--and they have done it for a very good reason.



He's been moving that way for a long time.

[Lando Calrissian]

Id say this is easily Marvels best current title and this past issue was a very powerful one at that...

Just watching T'challa talk about how Namor will finally play his part on the chess board and that he is there for a reason, than you see just what he meant by that.

[Ekie]

Or it's a giant plot-contrivance. They haven't explained WHY that wouldn't work? It's just "it wouldn't work, just because so shut up."

So what would Franklin do? Make a new earth and teleport everyone there? What if some people didn't want go? And does that really solve the problem or just delay it because swan didn't say?

[Kieran_Frost]

In regards to the gloat, no he didn't.

Darn (thank yous and Spear for answering it, though ). I wonder why Hickman is completely ignoring it... seems odd. Unless, at the last, Hickman maybe brings it up to show the Namor (a very proud man) won't use "excuses" to get himself out of difficult spots; even if they are 100% justified. Oh well... we'll have to wait and see. I do hope the TPB reading of this (once all is said and done) is EPIC! (won't be getting Avengers though, just sounds awful).

[Ceebiro]

So what would Franklin do? Make a new earth and teleport everyone there? What if some people didn't want go? And does that really solve the problem or just delay it because swan didn't say?

It would at least buy them time.

I don't follow the title but if the problem is specifically lies with the various Earths, there's nothing stopping them from moving people to another world (forcibly if need be) and destroying Earth.

That said, how much closer are they to figuring out what's causing the incursions?

[Kasper Cole]

It doesn't matter what he spent most of his career after being down graded by certain writers. What matters is his current incarnation and Hickman has said from the start that he's Superhuman. Either you accept it or not--and they have done it for a very good reason.



He's been moving that way for a long time.

In fairness though Hickman hasn't done a good job of establishing this IN THE BOOK. So many fights have happened off panel and T'Challa's powers haven't been defined in the book. We've just gotten glimpses of things like teleportation, superhuman strength, and now those energy fists.

[KOSLOX]

It would at least buy them time.

I don't follow the title but if the problem is specifically lies with the various Earths, there's nothing stopping them from moving people to another world (forcibly if need be) and destroying Earth.

That said, how much closer are they to figuring out what's causing the incursions?

0% closer.

[Trident]

It doesn't matter what he spent most of his career after being down graded by certain writers. What matters is his current incarnation and Hickman has said from the start that he's Superhuman. Either you accept it or not--and they have done it for a very good reason.



He's been moving that way for a long time.

This could still mean in terms of him have direct contact with his dead relatives though? He doesn't explain at all how he is super human. I'm not saying he's isn't outside of peak human now but so far he hasn't done anything to suggest otherwise.

[Vic Vega]

In other words, Hickman is putting them in a position where they HAD to do this. Because it's not like Reed or Strange have never dealt with interdimensional crises before, or that Reed has whipped out a super-device that solves the problem, or that Strange is the freaking Sorcerer Supreme, etc." It's just not all that convincing that THIS is the incident where they cannot solve the problem without resorting to genocide, given what they've dealt with in the past. Why is THIS time so different, that hasn't really been explained very well? It's like OMD in a way, a writer crowbarring things in just because he once to reach a certain outcome, not because it makes sense in the context of the universe. He wants to "dirty" these characters up, and will do so no matter how contrived the scenario comes across as.

Its more like he wants to bash the concept of Uberteams like the Illuminat thatrun everything for everybody without asking or even soliciting outside input.

The Pragmatists kicked the lone team Moralist out and now wonder why they have so few options.

They have so few options precisely because A)they refused any outside input at the start and B) the one guy there who didn't happen to think like the majority got suppressed.

Like for example, Reed obviously doesn't want the Frankin of his time to know what is going on. Maybe somebody like Sue could have talked sense into Reed if she'd known what was happening.

[UltimateTy]

0% closer.

I was so annoyed as a reader when Cap didn't find out why from Franklin.

[KOSLOX]

I wonder if they are going to use that planet sent back in time that is merged with Earth to achieve a Chrono Trigger solution.

[Victor Freeman]

This could still mean in terms of him have direct contact with his dead relatives though? He doesn't explain at all how he is super human. I'm not saying he's isn't outside of peak human now but so far he hasn't done anything to suggest otherwise.

I mean whatever. He's superhuman. It's not that hard to accept and ripping a man in half, would suggest that. :shrugs:
clearly he isn't pressed at all about Namor.

[Darth Tigris]

Well ... that was certainly dark and depressing from the first panel to the last.

I have mixed feelings about the long term impact of these events on the characters, but I have to admit that I am enthralled with the story right now. This Kobyashu Maru is not something that has been done within the Marvel Universe on this scale. There is hopefully some redemption at the end for most of them, though Namor's fate has been sealed since AvX. For all the times he's flooded cities and thus drowned an unknown number of innocents alone, he's beyond redemption. The rest of the writers have ignored this continually, but it's true. It's beyond time that he has met justice. Far more so than Black Panther or Blackbolt, he's a ruthless ruler that is closer to Doom and Magneto.

To me what's crazy is the last panel. Makes you just want to give up. But they won't. They can't. Because deep down they ARE heroes. And now we'll get to see how.