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  1. #91
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    Iím confident Bendis will tell some great stories with this new status quo. Personally, I think the secret identity concept is outdated. That this pushes Superman into some new territory I think will be exciting. No way someone is going to put glasses on and blend in without people recognizing him. If he went to a complete disguise then Iíd buy that. I canít except glasses. I donít really like secret identities on anyone. People will find out! Thatís a guarantee.
    Superman's is outdated, yes. Facial recognition software would see through the glasses disguise, and has Superman never left fingerprints which could be identified as those of Clark Kent? Spider-Man has his face covered and wears gloves, avoiding both of these issues. That is now mandatory for anyone serious about keeping a secret identity.

  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    As for the longevity of it all. Well, I'm of the opinion that DC has likely been told from on high that their publishing model needs to change. The parring down to a smaller number of books and the emphasis on the imprints and young adult lines is pretty significant. The audience for monthly floppies is a fraction of that of books like Smile, Dog Man, and the like. But we'll see.
    Agreed. And the direct market continues to choke to death, so it's imperative that the company find new readers, which won't be found in the LCS.

    If I had to guess I'd say that they're trying to build a line that can succeed in places where YA books and manga find their sales. This whole "generations" thing feels like an attempt to break their books across as many venues as possible and appeal to as many different people as possible. A pulp action book about Golden Age Superman, a "classic" book where Clark and Lois are rivals and she doesn't know his secret, a book about the Super-Family and Clark's next steps in life (married, kid, president of earth, etc), and a book about Clark's successor......if DC markets and distributes those correctly they could all (theoretically) find a foothold in various formats and bring in much higher sales than the direct market is capable of providing.

    I don't think us old bastard fans are the company's priority anymore. I think they still want us happy (or at least satisfied enough to keep buying) but I think their main goal right now is to get fresh readers. And that means bringing the product to new places, and making changes so they can succeed with those new audiences.
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  3. #93
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Superman's is outdated, yes. Facial recognition software would see through the glasses disguise, and has Superman never left fingerprints which could be identified as those of Clark Kent? Spider-Man has his face covered and wears gloves, avoiding both of these issues. That is now mandatory for anyone serious about keeping a secret identity.
    Eh, I think this is only an issue with us hardcore fans.

    For one thing, you can fix the whole problem with three words; "Kryptonian tech lenses." Clark's glasses fudge the details on cameras, so facial recog can't make the connection.

    Problem solved.

    And the secret ID has always been a weird hill to die on. We're talking about a solar powered alien who's basically a cosmic space god, looks exactly like us, and breaks the laws of physics every time he catches someone falling or lifts a building. And its the glasses that irreparably breaks our suspension of disbelief?

    Why is this a problem, but everyone ignores the fact that if Batman were real, he'd have been killed within his first couple weeks in the cape?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  4. #94
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Nope, Bendis just said on twitter Clark Kent will still be here and said keep reading.
    Be interesting to see how they approach it. Some of the covers make it seem, at least to me, like he's abandoning an aspect of his humanity (although the reactions on the cover are generally more positive).

    Hopefully this doesn't make him feel like a dime-a-dozen Marvel hero.

  5. #95
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The problem isn't a perceived loss of Clark Kent. That's obviously not happening. Revealing himself doesn't change who is inside. He'll still be Superman and he'll still be Clark Kent. The problem is getting rid of the secret.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  6. #96
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The problem isn't a perceived loss of Clark Kent. That's obviously not happening. Revealing himself doesn't change who is inside. He'll still be Superman and he'll still be Clark Kent. The problem is getting rid of the secret.
    I guess we don't lose the internal Clark Kent but we lose somewhat what the identity of Clark Kent has become...I'm not sure if I phrased that right, but it's how I feel.

    I guess no more glasses?

  7. #97
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, I think this is only an issue with us hardcore fans.

    For one thing, you can fix the whole problem with three words; "Kryptonian tech lenses." Clark's glasses fudge the details on cameras, so facial recog can't make the connection.

    Problem solved.
    If such a thing existed, Kara's glasses wouldn't need tech that changes her hair colour.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, I think this is only an issue with us hardcore fans.

    For one thing, you can fix the whole problem with three words; "Kryptonian tech lenses." Clark's glasses fudge the details on cameras, so facial recog can't make the connection.
    Firstly, bravo for this idea.

    Secondly, it is unfortunately more effort that DC tends to put in for Clark's secret i.d.

    And the secret ID has always been a weird hill to die on. We're talking about a solar powered alien who's basically a cosmic space god, looks exactly like us, and breaks the laws of physics every time he catches someone falling or lifts a building. And its the glasses that irreparably breaks our suspension of disbelief?
    The thing about suspension of disbelief is that it's important for the story to "help" it per say. Again, see your Kryptonian tech lenses idea. If that were used often, I'd imagine the secret i.d. would receive less scrutiny. Hell, even the CW shows manage to avoid this with Flash and Black Lightning. Barry wears a mask that covers most of his face and uses his powers to disguise his voice. Jefferson uses technology to disguise his voice and it's mentioned that his powers make directly looking at his face difficult.

    Why is this a problem, but everyone ignores the fact that if Batman were real, he'd have been killed within his first couple weeks in the cape?
    In fairness, they kind of haven't. See the complaints about Bat God.

  9. #99
    Spectacular Member Superbat's Avatar
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    If things work out, this could be the best examination of the dual identity we've ever had.

    Something more dynamic than one being real and the other fake.

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    If such a thing existed, Kara's glasses wouldn't need tech that changes her hair colour.
    Oh come on. You’re not seriously acting like what kind of Kryptonian tech Supes has in his Fortress has ever been consistent have you? It will exist the moment a writer says Superman has it.

    I feel like you guys are missing Ascended’s point: Superheroes aren’t realistic. None of Batman’s “evidence” collected via breaking and entering into people’s homes would be admissible in court yet I don’t see people complaining about that. Or that Steve Rogers a 1930s NYC kid doesn’t hold any problematic positions on matters of race or sexuality. Superheroes aren’t realistic and there world isn’t ours. So yeah wearing a pair of glasses and shifting the pitch of his voice does hide Clark’s identity.
    Last edited by Vordan; 10-19-2019 at 12:10 PM.

  11. #101
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The thing about suspension of disbelief is that it's important for the story to "help" it per say. Again, see your Kryptonian tech lenses idea. If that were used often, I'd imagine the secret i.d. would receive less scrutiny. Hell, even the CW shows manage to avoid this with Flash and Black Lightning. Barry wears a mask that covers most of his face and uses his powers to disguise his voice. Jefferson uses technology to disguise his voice and it's mentioned that his powers make directly looking at his face difficult.
    I mean, even for the Supers it isn't always just the glasses. Several incarnations shows Clark completely changing his posture and voice when he's Clark versus when he's Superman.

    I remember in Blackest Night Barry pointed that out when he was commenting on how little effort Hal was making with his secret identity lately.

  12. #102
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    If such a thing existed, Kara's glasses wouldn't need tech that changes her hair colour.
    So, time machines, Phantom Zone projectors, and weapons of cosmic destruction all make sense (as does hair color changing glasses?) but this is going too far? Okay, got it.

    Then we can just highlight Clark's impressive brain and he can invent the tech himself. Seriously, this is *not* a hurdle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Firstly, bravo for this idea.
    Thank you sir!

    Secondly, it is unfortunately more effort that DC tends to put in for Clark's secret i.d.
    Sadly true. I actually kind of wish DC would just play it like a mystery. I mean, even the idea of the glasses isn't working for some people, so I say go with the idea (which isn't mine but someone else's) that the *how* of Clark keeping his identity secret is a mystery; whenever someone brings it up he just gives a shrug and winks at the reader and it's left at that. How does Superman avoid facial recog and finger prints and all the rest of it? How does Jimmy never put it together despite knowing both Clark and Superman? We never know, DC never tries to explain it, and it's just a mysterious joke.

    All that said, yes DC does need to work harder to make Clark and Superman distinct. I've got a whole list of things here; skin tones, hair texture and color, eye color, body language, mannerisms, speech patterns, dialogue font......there's a billion ways to make them distinct to a point where the reader (who's in on the gag) can identify them as the same person but someone who doesn't know would never imagine they're one and the same.

    In fairness, they kind of haven't. See the complaints about Bat God.
    Ha! You got me there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I feel like you guys are missing Ascended’s point: Superheroes aren’t realistic. None of Batman’s “evidence” collected via breaking and entering into people’s homes would be admissible in court yet I don’t see people complaining about that. Or that Steve Rogers a 1930s NYC kid doesn’t hold any problematic positions on matters of race or sexuality. Superheroes aren’t realistic and there world isn’t ours. So yeah wearing a pair of glasses and shifting the pitch of his voice does hide Clark’s identity.
    Exactly. Superheroes make no sense and never will. Why is it religion, economics, national borders, and every other aspect of life in the DCU is virtually identical to the real world despite gods and monsters running around for years and years? Why, in post-Crisis, did they not have cars running on Ted Knight's cosmic energy technology? Why aren't the Greek gods a major, popular faith when people like Fate, Wonder Woman, Shazam, and others, all essentially prove those beings exist?

    Remember that scene in Age of Ultron where Hawkeye is all "We're fighting robots, the city is flying, and I'm using a bow and arrows. None of this makes any sense." I think y'all need to take a bit of advice from Clint Barton, and just roll with it.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-19-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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  13. #103
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    All that said, yes DC does need to work harder to make Clark and Superman distinct. I've got a whole list of things here; skin tones, hair texture and color, eye color, body language, mannerisms, speech patterns, dialogue font......there's a billion ways to make them distinct to a point where the reader (who's in on the gag) can identify them as the same person but someone who doesn't know would never imagine they're one and the same.
    The bolded are practically canon, if not consistently depicted.

  14. #104
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    Much of the reason that people don't recognize Clark as Superman is that (post-Byrne) no one has any reason to suspect that Superman is in fact anyone other than Superman. Byrne made this point in an early issue when Lex Luthor's computer concludes that Clark Kent and Superman are one and the same. Lex dismisses that as rubbish, since there's no reason that a near-god like Superman would ever schlub around as a puny everyman. We see that again in the new issue of Frank Miller's "Year One" when Lois Lane notices that Clark's profile is quite similar to Superman's, but she realizes that makes no sense, because why would Superman waste his time writing copy in the Daily Planet newsroom? Sometimes the best disguise is just hiding in plain sight, if no one expects to see you there.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Keep in mind that when Ultimate Spider-Man came out, it was very common in superhero comics for the heroes' secret identity to be known by a limited amount of people or for them to be public. So Bendis was just following an established trend.
    It was not a just a small amount of people in the Ultimate Spider-man comics.The population at large didn't knew,but at sometime or another,most of the named characters knew he was Spider-Man.

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