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  1. #181
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I just think secret identities are just creepy. I guess it’s easier when a character wears a mask. If you see Batman you know he’s hiding something. With Superman, everyone trusts him even though he’s hiding as much as Batman. I just think getting rid of the identity is a great move.
    I always liked it as a neat way of showing that even Superman himself can fall short of the platonic ideals he tries to uphold.

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I always liked it as a neat way of showing that even Superman himself can fall short of the platonic ideals he tries to uphold.
    I wouldn't expect a guy to just come out. I guess, clark's coming out party is a nice story. But, still i will miss the glasses.

  3. #183
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    The secret identity isn't being retconned out of his history, it's just being moved past in the current stories. Much like Clark revealing himself to Lois, it's an opportunity to tell new stories. It doesn't mean all those hundreds of stories in which Lois didn't know Clark was Superman are going away.

    Much like I am kinda glad that the K-Metal story from 1940 (in which Lois would have learned Clark was Superman) didnít happen that early, I am happy we got literally decades of the secret identity, but I am looking forward to seeing how this next development plays out.

  4. #184
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    The secret identity isn't being retconned out of his history, it's just being moved past in the current stories. Much like Clark revealing himself to Lois, it's an opportunity to tell new stories. It doesn't mean all those hundreds of stories in which Lois didn't know Clark was Superman are going away.

    Much like I am kinda glad that the K-Metal story from 1940 (in which Lois would have learned Clark was Superman) didn’t happen that early, I am happy we got literally decades of the secret identity, but I am looking forward to seeing how this next development plays out.
    Tentatively agreed.

    I'm all about forward motion. I hate cheap shock value gimmicks but I enjoy seeing characters take the next step in their lives. Evolution in comics is always a double edged sword of course, because once you really, truly move on it becomes harder to go back to how it used to be (just look at the marriage; despite a brief detour in the New52 it's looking more and more like this facet is our defacto setting now, and single Superman will exist only in adaptations). But Clark putting the glasses down and going public as Superman feels like it's the kind of place the character could get to in a organic and natural way. Like, if I were to map out Clark's entire life (and I have) this is something I think he'd do once he reached a certain point in life. And that's something we've never seen unfold before in the comics themselves, and I love it when evolution looks like novelty.

    And.....honestly this feels like it's as good a time as any. The founding of the United Planets and Clark taking a more direct hand in events as President, Jon being older and independent.....hell even the marriage is free of that awful melodrama that infested the 00's and Clark and Lois feel tighter than ever. So yeah, this could be the right time for Clark to go public.

    The real questions are whether Bendis can pull it off, whether it's a sustainable status quo (and this has never happened so we don't know), and whether DC *and* fans will accept it. That last one is a biggie; if DC or fans aren't sold on the execution or future potential we'll probably never have the chance to find out if this is a sustainable direction and the door on this particular "next step in life" will close.

    I'm hoping for the best. This feels like Bendis is trying to actually build something here, rather than just blow a bunch of smoke. All the one-shot tie-ins are giving me a serious Funeral For A Friend vibe, and the Death-Return saga has become a staple of Superman mythology. So I feel like, if we're gonna take another big step forward, the odds of it going well are about as high as they're gonna get.

    Y'know, it's weird. I've become a cynical old bastard fan and here I am actually being hopeful and excited about what Bendis might be doing. It's nice.
    Last edited by Ascended; 11-09-2019 at 08:50 PM.
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  5. #185
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Again, if it doesn't work, they'll be able to hand wave this all away quicker than you can say Blue Nudist Mxy, so what's the harm in trying something new and different?

  6. #186
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Again, if it doesn't work, they'll be able to hand wave this all away quicker than you can say Blue Nudist Mxy, so what's the harm in trying something new and different?
    No harm for DC. Harm for me in that there are bunch of stories I don't enjoy. And, of course, a lack of stories I do enjoy for the character. Even more of that if it does work. Kinda like the Joker movie - a great success for DC, but a downer for me because it likes means more movies that I won't like at the expense of those that I would being made.

    Jon is probably a lost cause for me now, in terms of ever getting to see the (nuclear) family dynamic of his youth or him being buds with Kathy or him growing up gradually or him growing to a distinctive, non-Superboy, non-Superman character (I have an annoyance with kid character not getting to grow up into their own identities and instead getting satellite or hand-me-down identities). Editorial decision, or so it seems, but it's another thing to make me dislike this title and be less inclined to "give it a chance."

  7. #187
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Again, if it doesn't work, they'll be able to hand wave this all away quicker than you can say Blue Nudist Mxy, so what's the harm in trying something new and different?
    For me, the harm is in doing something which I feel betrays a core concept of the character. A new costume doesn't do that. Temporary electricity powers doesn't do that. This does, mainly because of the long-term nature of which they're describing it. And that doesn't mean I think its going to last forever just because they're saying that, they've hyped certain things in such ways before. But at the same time with the "forever" talk, its obvious they're really going to push this as far and as long as they possibly can. Things would have to be disastrous from the word go in a way I have never seen in a brand new initiative for it to not last at least 2 years with this long-term talk. I'm confident its going to be very poorly received critically. But I'm not as confident that the sales are going to tank so bad as it have to in order to get them to kill it quick.

    Growth and moving forward can be good, but I know I'm a broken record with this but if you move forward in a way that messes up concept of character, or move forward in a way that starts making things less interesting along the way, I don't consider it positive.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-10-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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  8. #188
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    For me, the harm is in doing something which I feel betrays a core concept of the character. A new costume doesn't do that. Temporary electricity powers doesn't do that. This does, mainly because of the long-term nature of which they're describing it. And that doesn't mean I think its going to last forever just because they're saying that, they've hyped certain things in such ways before. But at the same time with the "forever" talk, its obvious they're really going to push this as far and as long as they possibly can. Things would have to be disastrous from the word go in a way I have never seen in a brand new initiative for it to not last at least 2 years with this long-term talk. I'm confident its going to be very poorly received critically. But I'm not as confident that the sales are going to tank so bad as it have to in order to get them to kill it quick.

    Growth and moving forward can be good, but I know I'm a broken record with this but if you move forward in a way that messes up concept of character, or move forward in a way that starts making things less interesting along the way, I don't consider it positive.
    But, secret id needs something to freshen it up as concept. It has become monotonous, mudane and just the butt of jokes. It wasn't just a joke before. So i can see where they are coming from. If people don't see the themselves in the glasses persona (even if fake) anymore. Then it's a real problem. Thankfully that's not the case. I have seen people be really attached to it. So much so they want that guy to be real clark or kal. they have even gotten their wish in many interpretations. So, i am sure it will return When they have something original. Atleast, that's me being optimistic.

  9. #189
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Just because there's no harm in something doesn't mean it's not frustrating and unwanted.

  10. #190
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    But, secret id needs something to freshen it up as concept. It has become monotonous, mudane and just the butt of jokes. It wasn't just a joke before. So i can see where they are coming from. If people don't see the themselves in the glasses persona (even if fake) anymore. Then it's a real problem. Thankfully that's not the case. I have seen people be really attached to it. So much so they want that guy to be real clark or kal. they have even gotten their wish in many interpretations. So, i am sure it will return When they have something original. Atleast, that's me being optimistic.
    I think the freshening up would be in doubling down on it in a way not seen since the pre-Crisis days, personally. But that would require removing things like the marriage and Jon, imo. New 52 had that basic set up but it still had too many people knowing, and the dual nature was rarely played up upon much from the Clark end. For my money the ID needs to be somewhat a lonely thing to deal with again, the counter to his blessings as far as his abilities and his fantastic upbringing (near perfect parents, growing powers, superpowered friends from the future? His childhood was rocking despite having to adopt secrets from an early age). It works best when the minimum amount of people possible know (that includes ousting Bruce, Diana, and any other superhero from knowing), and when its working best, its aids in Superman working best. To me that's the freshening it needs. Not something new or portrayed as new, but something old that's been lost for far too long.

    As long as she exists, I frankly think the only person who should know is Kara. And that's just out of pure necessity of her concept. I know I used to say not long ago that I'd change the Lois and Clark dynamic to them not being married but her knowing, but based on how I feel about the secret ID and its role, which really the recent plans have made me realize how I truly feel about it, I'd go back to her not knowing. The change I favor now for Lois and Clark would be Lois liking Clark from the get-go more than Superman. So in a way post-Crisis in nature but the change-up being she's actually wary of Superman in a way. She's a reporter, its her job to be skeptical and search truth after all, and with a being who's very secretive by nature, that would gnaw at someone like her despite the good things he does. Meanwhile Clark (or his public persona of Clark), comes across as so sweet and innocent without a single skeleton in his closet and she just appreciates that nature. The irony of course being apparent.

    But, I've digressed into more what I want and not discussing the actual reality here, so I'll stop rambling now, lol.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-10-2019 at 01:19 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  11. #191
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I think the freshening up would be in doubling down on it in a way not seen since the pre-Crisis days, personally. But that would require removing things like the marriage and Jon, imo. New 52 had that basic set up but it still had too many people knowing, and the dual nature was rarely played up upon much from the Clark end. For my money the ID needs to be somewhat a lonely thing to deal with again, the counter to his blessings as far as his abilities and his fantastic upbringing (near perfect parents, growing powers, superpowered friends from the future? His childhood was rocking despite having to adopt secrets from an early age). It works best when the minimum amount of people possible know (that includes ousting Bruce, Diana, and any other superhero from knowing), and when its working best, its aids in Superman working best. To me that's the freshening it needs. Not something new or portrayed as new, but something old that's been lost for far too long.

    As long as she exists, I frankly think the only person who should know is Kara. And that's just out of pure necessity of her concept. I know I used to say not long ago that I'd change the Lois and Clark dynamic to them not being married but her knowing, but based on how I feel about the secret ID and its role, which really the recent plans have made me realize how I truly feel about it, I'd go back to her not knowing. The change I favor now for Lois and Clark would be Lois liking Clark from the get-go more than Superman. So in a way post-Crisis in nature but the change-up being she's actually wary of Superman in a way. She's a reporter, its her job to be skeptical and search truth after all, and with a being who's very secretive by nature, that would gnaw at someone like her despite the good things he does. Meanwhile Clark (or his public persona of Clark), comes across as so sweet and innocent without a single skeleton in his closet and she just appreciates that nature. The irony of course being apparent.

    But, I've digressed into more what I want and not discussing the actual reality here, so I'll stop rambling now, lol.
    There was this thing where clark used to make sure that he wasn't on the news as superman. I would want that to be back. Lois forced his hands to reveal himself by getting in trouble, though. Lois is smart. Unless clark has some memory wiping kiss. He won't be able to hide for ever. A glass is a thin disguise. It just makes everyone involved look bad for a long term and especially in a world similar to ours. Suspension of disbelief gets affected. Making him a loner would work. If it weren't for the fact that daily planet staff are very low inquisitive. Both jimmy and lois would persistently try to get to know clark. That could be a fun little game to read. And eventually see through it. In the current environment when glasses are seen as thin disguise. The longer it takes the more it will make every one look bad.
    I would prefer something that removes the feeling that the glasses as thin disguise.i also would have clark talk to the glasses persona when he is in a deep monologue. I know that's a bit on 'not normal' side. But, it's needed that disguise shouldn't be seen as his attempt at parodying humanity as whole or making fun of timid people. Or just a tool. As i said, the glasses have become a symbol as much as the s shield . Clark should grow to respect it. I also Wouldn't want something that's forced like the kryptonIan martial arts. Yikes! It is better that it didn't stick around. Clark is better off as a boxer and a wrestler. It fits the strongman.

  12. #192
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    The glasses and the Clark Kent shirt rip are such an ICONIC part of the Superman mythos, I'm don't want it to go away for a potentially new gimmick..

    I'm all for new kind of Superman stories, but not to get rid of things in the lore I love. Every time I see a Clark shirt rip, I get big chills! :/


    Another thing I don't want to see happen is Clark to get special treatment because people will know he is the bigger than life superhero Superman. It has been a big part of his mythos knowing that behind mild-mannered Clark there was the confident and powerful Superman. A great dichotomy and captured imaginations for so long.

    The new stories need great writing with depth to make it special and worth it..
    Last edited by stargazer01; 11-11-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  13. #193
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I don't think the shirt rip is going anywhere. I mean, why would Clark decide to wear his Superman costume 24/7? He's still going to be dressed in his regular clothes when he's not doing Superman stuff.

    I think there's some misinterpretation of what Bendis has planned here. He's not getting rid of Clark Kent, he's simply having Clark stop lying to the world about Clark and Superman being two different people. At least that's how I understand it from the Word Balloon interview he gave. This opens up lots of new and potentially interesting story possibilities for both the Clark Kent parts of his life and the Superman parts of his life.

  14. #194
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't think the shirt rip is going anywhere. I mean, why would Clark decide to wear his Superman costume 24/7? He's still going to be dressed in his regular clothes when he's not doing Superman stuff.

    I think there's some misinterpretation of what Bendis has planned here. He's not getting rid of Clark Kent, he's simply having Clark stop lying to the world about Clark and Superman being two different people. At least that's how I understand it from the Word Balloon interview he gave. This opens up lots of new and potentially interesting story possibilities for both the Clark Kent parts of his life and the Superman parts of his life.
    For me, the balancing act will be how much of Clark disappears in the wake of the reveal. If the only thing that changes is he doesn't need to wear the glasses and hide the identity, great! If this is an excuse to have him always speaking, behaving and carrying himself as Superman... Well that sucks beyond belief because it just ripped a dimension away from a very rich character. The devil will be in the details, but I'm interested to see this bird land.

  15. #195
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    For me, the balancing act will be how much of Clark disappears in the wake of the reveal. If the only thing that changes is he doesn't need to wear the glasses and hide the identity, great! If this is an excuse to have him always speaking, behaving and carrying himself as Superman... Well that sucks beyond belief because it just ripped a dimension away from a very rich character. The devil will be in the details, but I'm interested to see this bird land.
    Agreed. The dynamic between Clark and Superman is practically what the entire mythos is built on and messing with that.....it's gonna be tricky to take something like this and shift things around in a way where we're gaining at least as much as we're losing without undermining the fundamentals of who Clark is. Usually I don't consider Bendis a nuanced enough writer to pull it off but for the most part he's done right by me with Superman so I'm hoping he can make it work.
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