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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm more convinced than ever that what Superman really needs is for the dual identity to be relevant and a part of his life in the strongest way possible again. Not removed entirely. The light went off in my head when reading the past few OOC projects. My apathy with the marriage or hating Jon isn't really the main reason why I think those should go away. Those are symptoms of the problem, not the problem. For a long time now the secret identity has been relevant onlyin theory, not much in way of practice. Its just been there, but there's no depth to it, there's no conflict to it as originally intended. The problem is moving away from the secret identity having any impact in Superman's life. It not being difficult anymore. It not being lonely anymore. It not being frustrating anymore. It not being necessary anymore. Its a major if not the most major challenge to him as a character that counter-balances his otherwise Herculean status. That's why a family doesn't work, imo. He needs that secret that very few if anyone knows. He needs that duality that he has to shuffle completely on his own, and the metaphors and exaggerated relatability that comes with it. I feel it every time I read an out-of-continuity story that can still rely on it. Its just better, its a huge missing piece. It doesn't get old. Its timeless because its part of the concept of character and the character is timeless. It doesn't need to be moved on from, it never did.

    So needless to say, doing the exact opposite intrigues me not anymore. I'll stick with Black Label stuff and any other standalone projects like Superman Smashes the Klan, because man going cold turkey would be hard, but beyond that I've dropped the main stuff. Its a liberating decision in a way.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-18-2019 at 10:11 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    If DC wants to undo it, just show it was all a bad dream. I'd accept it.

  3. #18
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    Eh, It'll be interesting for a few months. I'm sure the status quo/secret identity will be restored when the new Crisis DC has been teasing wraps up.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman View Post
    Eh, It'll be interesting for a few months. I'm sure the status quo/secret identity will be restored when the new Crisis DC has been teasing wraps up.
    So, how long do you think that will take? Seems like these things are getting dragged out to last longer and longer. And this Rebirth one is frustrating (though I am glad to get back aspects of pre-Flashpoint continuity), because we're left in limbo while the Metaverse reasserts itself and don't even know what backstories are for some of the characters and keeping getting conflicting info (either because editors don't have it straight or because universe is actually changing). That's not enjoyable when it lasts this long.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman View Post
    Eh, It'll be interesting for a few months. I'm sure the status quo/secret identity will be restored when the new Crisis DC has been teasing wraps up.
    Actually it probably won't be. 5G after the Crisis will have Jon taking over the role. So there will really be no reason to put the secret identity back. In fact there's more incentive to keep it as the clear aim in all of this is to build up the Jon-as-Superman eventual status quo, and the plan for Jon's future appears to be being publicly known as the son of Lois and Superman. It rather has to be, to accommodate there not being questions about his age ups. It'll be known he's the son of Superman, and time travel adventures are why he's aged. This isn't planned as temporary by comic book standards. Only its eventual and hopefully quick failure will end it. The Crisis is looking to be designed in part to double down on it. It will end someday, of course, all I mean is that it doesn't seem like this is being done because a Crisis is coming to erase it.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-18-2019 at 11:31 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    So is Bendis acting like the DC You era didn’t happen before? We’ve explored this before, literally just a few years ago.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Since this is happening so soon after Truth, there’s clearly someone in the higher ups, someone or some people who was around pre-Bendis who probably genuinely thinks that Superman leaving Clark behind is the best way forward. That quote sorta supports it. This will probably last for a while. Forever? Nah. But for the foreseeable future.

  8. #23
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Since this is happening so soon after Truth, there’s clearly someone in the higher ups, someone or some people who was around pre-Bendis who probably genuinely thinks that Superman leaving Clark behind is the best way forward. That quote sorta supports it. This will probably last for a while. Forever? Nah. But for the foreseeable future.
    Exactly. The trunks came back, and nobody thought we'd see those in the main books again. Clark will be back.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Exactly. The trunks came back, and nobody thought we'd see those in the main books again. Clark will be back.
    Well if DC decides to follow through on 5G, we’ll likely get a book set before this reveal happens for fans that prefer stories stuck in a older status quo.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Well if DC decides to follow through on 5G, we’ll likely get a book set before this reveal happens for fans that prefer stories stuck in a older status quo.
    But not the status quo I want, since there will be no child-aged son Jon. And hopefully not the older status quo of Lois not knowing and Clark pretending to be wimp or laughing up his sleeve at Lois.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Since this is happening so soon after Truth, there’s clearly someone in the higher ups, someone or some people who was around pre-Bendis who probably genuinely thinks that Superman leaving Clark behind is the best way forward. That quote sorta supports it. This will probably last for a while. Forever? Nah. But for the foreseeable future.
    Didio WAS the major force behind DC You and it feels like we’re entering that era again. But it’s not just Bendis who wants to ditch the secret identity I’ve seen others say similar stuff which I think is idiotic. Clark has Kryptonian tech, say his glasses replicate Spyral’s abilities if your problem is that you think the disguise is stupid. But take away the double life and Clark becomes even more cut off from day to day interactions with people. I really feel like some people just want to make Clark Miracleman or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So is Bendis acting like the DC You era didn’t happen before? We’ve explored this before, literally just a few years ago.
    Yeah he is. To be fair King pretended that Batman had never had his heart broken by a woman before, so it’s not a Bendis specific thing. But Bendis also acts like Rogal was some brand new idea when he’s really just Busiek’s Ullek, a big ugly guy who blames Superman for evil acts committed by Kryptonians in the past.

  12. #27
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    Is this what I want? No. Would this be the story I would tell? Nope. Do I think this will be permanent? Nope. But, as I’ve said previously when this was first speculated, I’m fairly zen about this. I don’t particularly like it but I also think it ::could:: have the potential to be interesting and tell a different kind of story for the time being.

    I agree that the dual identity is paramount to understanding Superman. I vehemently DISAGREE that the marriage and/or Superman having a family makes it so the dual identity is no longer relevant and I continue to take issue with the idea that Clark being a mature man who takes ownership for his own feelings and life and is HONEST with Lois allowing to her be a full partner “breaks” the story or makes the secret identity no longer have meaning. Superman can be both a husband and a father and the dual identity can still both be relevant and important and part of your story. The very idea that Clark had to stay alone forever never truly treating Lois like a partner because it preserves the “secret identity” is cynical at best and crappy storytelling at worst. There are elements of narratives that absolutely have to evolve and the constant lying to Lois to keep them apart was one of them. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with Superman being a father either unless you are operating under patriarchal storytelling standards which push the idea that powerful men must be alone to serve and care and/or you are operating under the equally flawed and crappy assumption like Frank Miller that superpowered heroes are too “godly” to live with mere mortals. The secret identity is extremely important but it had to be able to evolve so evolve it did.

    Do I think this is a great “evolution” for the secret identity?? Honestly? No. I think there’s a difference between Clark being honest and open with a select few (his wife, his closest allies etc) and the general public. They aren’t the same thing. BUT, I also can’t bring myself to get super worked up about this for a few main reasons.

    The bottom line is that this is not remotely the same situation as TRUTH—a story that was problematic from the very first marketing campaign as it sought to paint Lois as the villain (even though within the context of the story she did absolutely nothing wrong and her actions were downright heroic.) But the marketing was sexist and crappy to her. It also wasn’t a great story for Clark himself not just because he was outed but because, in the context of the story, he should have been the one to do it himself but because the story was consumed with creating drama between Lois and Clark and pointing the finger at her, it couldn’t play out that way.

    End of day? This will be the first time in Supermen history that, hypothetically, Clark and Lois decide as a team to go public with their truth and face the world. What does that mean for them? Honestly, I don’t know. And there are a million ways that this could go wrong. And those of us used to Lois being blamed for everything under the sun will certainly be watching closely to make sure she’s not scapegoated in any of this. I feel relief knowing that Rucka is her watch dog—that helps. It’s not the story I would tell. But it ::is:: new and so long as this choice is made together as partners ....I’m here for the ride however temporary it may be. Perhaps I’m jaded at this point but in terms of offensive things that DC could do to Superman and/or Lois Lane...I’ve lived worse.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 10-18-2019 at 11:29 AM.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I agree that the dual identity is paramount to understanding Superman. I vehemently DISAGREE that the marriage and/or Superman having a family makes it so the dual identity is no longer relevant and I continue to take issue with Clark being a mature man who takes ownership for his own feelings and life and is HONEST with Lois allowing to her be a full partner “breaks” the story or makes the secret identity no longer have meaning. Superman can be both a husband and a father and the dual identity can still both be relevant and important and part of your story. The very idea that Clark had to stay alone forever never truly treating Lois like a partner because it preserves the “secret identity” is cynical at best and crappy storytelling at worst. There are elements of narratives that absolutely have to evolve and the constant lying to Lois to keep them apart was one of them. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with Superman being a father either unless you are operating under patriarchal storytelling standards which push the idea that powerful men must be alone to serve and care and/or you are operating under the equally flawed and crappy assumption like Frank Miller that superpowered heroes are too “godly” to live with mere mortals. The secret identity is extremely important but it had to be able to evolve so evolve it did.
    I do agree with this.

    Do I think this is a great “evolution” for the secret identity?? Honestly? No. I think there’s a difference between Clark being honest and open with a select few (his wife, his closest allies etc) and the general public. They aren’t the same thing. BUT, I also can’t bring myself to get super worked up about this for a few main reasons.
    Can't say I'm worked up about it, either. Firstly, I already quit reading for other reasons, and I'm not going to start reading again in the near future unless there are significant changes. Secondly, I don't think it'll last. Thirdly, we have that whole 5G thing coming up and I have a lot more unanswered questions on that timeline than about this.

    But I do like secret identities. Even Wally and Diana's.

    So, I already jumped off this ride, unlike you, but this, while not to my taste, would not make me do so. There are so many worse things that have already been done, IMO.

  14. #29
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    It hardly matters, if Clark stops being Superman anyway in 5G. I'm sure DC will continue to publish plenty of out-of-continuity Black Label titles in which the secret identity is still a thing, so there will be something for fans of the old and new alike. I just hope all those non-continuity stories will follow the post-Byrne model in which no one knows that Superman has a secret identity, much less who it is. The Silver Age "guessing game" stories were pretty terrible.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The idea that Clark would try his best to make it so that no one imagined Superman would have a secret identity in the first place was indeed a good move. Although, it doesn't bother me in the least if certain characters like Lois sometimes wonder if he might and tries to look into it from time to time.

    My preferred Lois and Clark dynamic has changed a bit to reflect all this. Up till recently I liked the idea of Lois be a confidant, someone who knows the secret. I'm kinda backing off that now, thinking no one should know. With Lois what I'm thinking now to change things up from the classic dynamic would have her not be obsessed with Superman and completely dismissive of Clark, but indeed like Clark just fine and think him a good man and a good reporter but kinda have reservations of Superman. An outlier to the usual that Clark has had to deal with all his life, that people think less of his public Clark persona when he knows he's so much more. Here is someone who appreciates even his public persona of Clark, but is wary of the other side. Not J. Jonah Jameson by any stretch of the imagination, just inquisitive, questioning, not so "rah rah Superman is so great".
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-18-2019 at 11:43 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

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