What if Wallace West/new 52 Kid Flash/ Black Wally West was from another earth ?

[Frostbite883]

Earth 8 pre crisis.

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[Mr.B]

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Google it. 10char

[Dred]

That's just not true. Kids get their dad's last name whenever we know who he is. There's no need to a child be born inside of wedlock for that.

No they don't. What?

[BohemiaDrinker]

No they don't.

Is this a thing where you're from? Because I never heard of this!

And you can look around. Oprah's parents were not married, she still gets the "Winfrey" from her father. Mick Jagger had a one night stand here in Brazil, his brazilian son is named Lucas Jagger. Fidel Castro was the son of a mistress, he and his brothers still still got the Castro from their fathers's side. Same goes for Eva Péron (got the "Duarte" from her father), all or most of the Jolie-Pitt kids, and on and on. And don't get me started on all my cousins. And, of course, in comics there's also Damian Wayne as well.

Outside of Game of Thrones and scenaries like that, I never heard the notion that parenthood had anything to do with marriage at all. Sure, you can't baptize a child in the Catholic Church (except when you can) if the parents aren't married, but that has nothing to do with surnames at all.

[Dred]

Is this a thing where you're from? Because I never heard of this!

And you can look around. Oprah's parents were not married, she still gets the "Winfrey" from her father. Mick Jagger had a one night stand here in Brazil, his brazilian son is named Lucas Jagger. Fidel Castro was the son of a mistress, he and his brothers still still got the Castro from their fathers's side. Same goes for Eva Péron (got the "Duarte" from her father), all or most of the Jolie-Pitt kids, and on and on. And don't get me started on all my cousins. And, of course, in comics there's also Damian Wayne as well.

Outside of Game of Thrones and scenaries like that, I never heard the notion that parenthood had anything to do with marriage at all. Sure, you can't baptize a child in the Catholic Church (except when you can) if the parents aren't married, but that has nothing to do with surnames at all.

In the states you do not default to the deadbeat dad's last name. Especially if you don't even know who the father is, apparently, with the entire mess of Rudy and Daniel there. Which becomes even MORE fucking dumb in a world where Wally exists. For years they apparently were passing off Wallace was Rudy's son, making him Wally's younger brother in that family dynamic. Something they obviously ignored with the retcon. The children of single mothers by and large have their single mother's surname for obvious, logical reasons. Do you think, when they're writing the birth certificate in these scenarios, they ask the mother what the Father's surname is if the father isn't present?

You can always take the father's last name but the mother is the one who has the say in that if she has her maiden name. And it was thoroughly established that she hated the Wests. It's, like, the only thing we know about her besides that she's black. And Daniel was like 12 or something when Wallace was born (its own, stupid mess). The Damian example is because Bruce took him in -- he's the single father in this instance.

Wallace is actually a logically beyond screwed up character in any way you view his name origin, or situation.

[lemonpeace]

In the states you do not default to the deadbeat dad's last name. Especially if you don't even know who the father is, apparently, with the entire mess of Rudy and Daniel there. Which becomes even MORE fucking dumb in a world where Wally exists. For years they apparently were passing off Wallace was Rudy's son, making him Wally's younger brother in that family dynamic. Something they obviously ignored with the retcon. The children of single mothers by and large have their single mother's surname for obvious, logical reasons. Do you think, when they're writing the birth certificate in these scenarios, they ask the mother what the Father's surname is if the father isn't present?

You can always take the father's last name but the mother is the one who has the say in that if she has her maiden name. And it was thoroughly established that she hated the Wests. It's, like, the only thing we know about her besides that she's black. And Daniel was like 12 or something when Wallace was born (its own, stupid mess). The Damian example is because Bruce took him in -- he's the single father in this instance.

Wallace is actually a logically beyond screwed up character in any way you view his name origin, or situation.

it doesn't matter who Wallace thought was who, if his mother knew who his father is she could name him literally whatever; says someone raised by a single mother with their father's last name. lmao c'mon bruh, your devotion to this idea that the name Wallace West is some gordian knot of indecipherable lineage logical puzzle is...iunno what it is to be honest. you seriously think someone is gonna see a black kid named Wallace, see a white man named Wally and think "wait a minute, this is too illogical for me, person reading about Multiverse and superhumans, I smell a familial conspiracy!" If someone sees "ok his dad was a villain named Daniel West and his mom had a falling out with his family" no one has the time or care to start researching and figuring out "how old were they when they met? why did she pick this name and not this name? how come his name is Wallace but this other guy is Wally?" just because. the name is only a problem if you go out of your way to make it a problem for yourself. and I say problem for yourself because DC is not going to go out of their way to change his name to Ruby West-Allen or Daniel West jr. or Jacob Allen or Daequan West or whatever have you, then have to reprint or invalidate all of his previous appearances where he is called Wally or Wallace just to appease people still miffed that they ruffled some Wally West fan feathers; it's a non-problem. why break continuity for a name when you can just chalk it up to "families are messy sometimes, meh"? it's as good a reason as any, there are a billion and one ways someone in the same family has the same name as someone else. at that point, if you are looking the name Wallace and then look at the name Wally, and see that one is black and one is white, and you just can't process what's going on because "well Raven used to call the Wally with the red hair 'Wallace' sometimes in the old continuity" then, again, that's only really ruining the reading experience for yourself; and beating the withered dusty bones of a long dead horse discussion-wise.

having said all that: hey bruh, I get it, it's just your opinion. I just wanted to make sure I said that, I fundamentally disagree with it but, I respect that it's your opinion as someone who (I assume) enjoys the character as well.

[Frontier]

This makes me wonder more about Wallace's mom. I don't think they've talked about her much beyond her dying (?) and Iris needing to take care of him.

[BohemiaDrinker]

In the states you do not default to the deadbeat dad's last name.

Ok, but that's not what you said. You said:

Daniel wasn't old enough to get married when Wallace was born. So he should have his mother's last name.

As if it was a rule that kids of un-married couples only get the mom's name. That is just not true at all. Sure, some single moms either don't know who the father is want him in the picture. But marriage has absolutely nothing to do with a child's parentage. At all.

In this particular case, it's obvious that Wallace's mom knew who the father was, and that his name is on Wallace's birth certificate.

And I'm not defending Wallace's origin here (it's absolute crap, as I said again again and again).

[Dred]

it doesn't matter who Wallace thought was who, if his mother knew who his father is she could name him literally whatever; says someone raised by a single mother with their father's last name. lmao c'mon bruh, your devotion to this idea that the name Wallace West is some gordian knot of indecipherable lineage logical puzzle is...iunno what it is to be honest. you seriously think someone is gonna see a black kid named Wallace, see a white man named Wally and think "wait a minute, this is too illogical for me, person reading about Multiverse and superhumans, I smell a familial conspiracy!" If someone sees "ok his dad was a villain named Daniel West and his mom had a falling out with his family" no one has the time or care to start researching and figuring out "how old were they when they met? why did she pick this name and not this name? how come his name is Wallace but this other guy is Wally?" just because. the name is only a problem if you go out of your way to make it a problem for yourself. and I say problem for yourself because DC is not going to go out of their way to change his name to Ruby West-Allen or Daniel West jr. or Jacob Allen or Daequan West or whatever have you, then have to reprint or invalidate all of his previous appearances where he is called Wally or Wallace just to appease people still miffed that they ruffled some Wally West fan feathers; it's a non-problem. why break continuity for a name when you can just chalk it up to "families are messy sometimes, meh"? it's as good a reason as any, there are a billion and one ways someone in the same family has the same name as someone else. at that point, if you are looking the name Wallace and then look at the name Wally, and see that one is black and one is white, and you just can't process what's going on because "well Raven used to call the Wally with the red hair 'Wallace' sometimes in the old continuity" then, again, that's only really ruining the reading experience for yourself; and beating the withered dusty bones of a long dead horse discussion-wise.

having said all that: hey bruh, I get it, it's just your opinion. I just wanted to make sure I said that, I fundamentally disagree with it but, I respect that it's your opinion as someone who (I assume) enjoys the character as well.

Wallace is a gordian knot. His name being a mess is a logical consequence of it.

If your reason is "comics are stupid, just ignore it" then cool. You do you. I wasn't disparaging anyone when I said most people who support the character don't care about that stuff. I disregard or hate the worst parts of characters I like, too. I'd rather his situation not be such a dumb, need-to-be-ignored mess.

People tend to call Wally Wallace when they're talking to him supportively or trying to reach him emotionally. It's why Raven and Starfire always call him Wallace. Due to empathy and personality they're just kind of always in that mode. But there's been dozens of times loved ones in stories call him Wallace. All of that said, this problem is easily mended -- just don't do that anymore. Just have everyone call him Wally all the time and no one would be the wiser, care, or really notice. It's not important to any character that Wally be called Wallace in any way, so it's easily eschewed.

The ideal solution would've been Wallace would've never been intended to be the real Wally in the first place so none of this crisscrosses over in the first place.

My biggest issue with the name is that Wallace was, and frankly still is, a character meant to replace Wally in several facets. And the shared name enforces that. The difference between him and, say, Iris and Jai is that Iris and Jai weren't designed as replacements for the original Iris or Jay. They're much more distinct characters than their names. Iris' nephew, named Wallace, who gets struck with lightning and becomes Kid Flash to help Barry Allen take down bad guys and join the Teen Titans... is kind of on the nose for the obvious reasons. So it wouldn't hurt to divide the line a bit more. But I imagine a lot of Wallace's fans would very much prefer him to continue to get more of Wally's place anyhow. Again, I don't blame them, we all want our favorite characters to get more screen time. I wish Irey got more screen time instead of Wallace since he's ousted her from her position as this current gen's speedster. It sucks (to me) that a more retreaded ground to support Barry forced it.

Though, I will admit, I do notice my hypocrisy here. I rail against people demanding Wally get a new superhero name because Barry is The Flash. Which, while different, is definitely in the same ballpark as my issue here.

This makes me wonder more about Wallace's mom. I don't think they've talked about her much beyond her dying (?) and Iris needing to take care of him.

She disappeared during Forever Evil, and the assumption was that if she wasn't dead, she used the calamity to abandon Wallace (this was something Iris implied).