What if Wallace West/new 52 Kid Flash/ Black Wally West was from another earth ?

[DragonsChi]

Wallace's creation is problematic, but retcons and pointless alterations aren't going to help in the least. He needs his own stories and development and it's already been discussed in this thread that retcon after retcon is just going to make the character all the more unappealing to potential readers. DC does need to better handle and promote its non-white characters, but just because one had a problematic creation doesn't mean these changes are going to help any.

The bold is the one thing I agree with and that your correct about. However, very few people will ever invest in a carbon copy, of a carbon copy, of carbon copy long term. Doesn't matter what color they are it's not going to happen long term. The very fact that DC has managed to achieve a modicum of success with two copies of essentially the same character/character type is impressive in of itself. To push further is pressing their luck and flat out greedy.

The fact that they tried to pawn off the Black version of a VERY POPULAR character as a "Gotcha" with a little "F-You" on the side is past the point of being despicable and shameful. Giving him a new set of powers that works with the Flash family will give the character ACTUAL legs to move forward into his own character. Right now as it stands the very knowledge of how the character came in to being will do nothing but stiffen him for YEARS to come.

Why? Because he will always be the character created to shut up BUYERS and force cooperation or be faced being labeled with VERY derogatory language. While at the same time ONCE AGAIN using the BLACK COMMUNITY as unimportant pawns to further their personal goals.

DC is about to go through another reboot anyway with this 5G non-sense they might as well FIX the mess they made with Wallace by actually making him his own character.

[Lee]

If DC wants to keep Wallace around then they should at the very least change his powerset (Maybe a Time/Speedforce centric power but no Super Speed) and costume to something that fits the Flash family but carves out his own niche'. Because right now the character is embarrassing mess.

Why? As Kid Flash, the young protege, he has a more clearly defined role than characters like Wally and Avery.

[DragonsChi]

Why? As Kid Flash, the young protege, he has a more clearly defined role than characters like Wally and Avery.

Impulse still exist and has more fans so not really.

Wally is a character a whole generation of people fell in love with and still follow to this day. No matter how hard DC tries he is not going anywhere.

At the current stance of things with Wallace if he went away some people would care but in a month or two the majority of people will never really think about again.

[Modamy]

I don't doubt DC's creation of Wallace was cynical and manipulative, but the character is here now and I don't think it really matters to most people what the circumstances for his creation were. The push for diversity in something traditionally white-centric like comics was always going to be tricky. There are quite a few characters of color that just get buried because they aren't attached to a bigger name like Flash so putting him in a spot that actually gets him attention and staying power was just the easier way to go.

I also don't like the idea of forcing the character to change just to make him superficially different. Wallace should be in the main Flash title and written by a writer who actually has a plan for him and Barry.

I also don't really know what 5G is going to be and haven't payed much attention to it. If it is going to replace characters for some time I don't see the point in doing anything to Wallace since he might no longer be a major character in any book. If anything it means it's even more urgent to give him a strong story to go out on.

[DragonsChi]

I don't doubt DC's creation of Wallace was cynical and manipulative, but the character is here now and I don't think it really matters to most people what the circumstances for his creation were. The push for diversity in something traditionally white-centric like comics was always going to be tricky. There are quite a few characters of color that just get buried because they aren't attached to a bigger name like Flash so putting him in a spot that actually gets him attention and staying power was just the easier way to go.

I also don't like the idea of forcing the character to change just to make him superficially different. Wallace should be in the main Flash title and written by a writer who actually has a plan for him and Barry.

I also don't really know what 5G is going to be and haven't payed much attention to it. If it is going to replace characters for some time I don't see the point in doing anything to Wallace since he might no longer be a major character in any book. If anything it means it's even more urgent to give him a strong story to go out on.

I disagree for multiple reasons. The primary of which being that Black People and Black Characters deserver better than the continual poor ill intention hand-me down trash that we keep getting.

However, to not derail the thread and/or to give others a chance to comment I will bow out for now to see what others have to say.

[Lee]

Impulse still exist and has more fans so not really.

Wally is a character a whole generation of people fell in love with and still follow to this day. No matter how hard DC tries he is not going anywhere.

At the current stance of things with Wallace if he went away some people would care but in a month or two the majority of people will never really think about again.

Bart hasn't been Flash's protégé for almost a decade. That would mean having to start from scratch, again. There's strength in consistency, rather than throwing out the baby with the bath water every couple of years.

[Vampire Savior]

This. I'm a black male who funny enough held Wally West as his favorite DC character for the longest time and would have LOVED if Wally had started out as a black male. But what Dan Didio (and co) did by creating a Black carbon copy is beyond insulting and screams Old White Man who is out of touch with the community and HIS own ingrained prejudice/Racism.

If DC actually cares about "diversity" they will stop treating the black community as if they are stupid character hungry children and start actually putting their money where their mouth is with well formed original characters.

If DC wants to keep Wallace around then they should at the very least change his powerset (Maybe a Time/Speedforce centric power but no Super Speed) and costume to something that fits the Flash family but carves out his own niche'. Because right now the character is embarrassing mess.

Considering black representation in the Flash family, I would much rather see more done with XS, who I actually think is a cool character, than continuing anything with this fake Wally West.

What you're saying about DC's black characters is true, and I believe it would do black fans a lot good to stop buying into ploys like this just because the character is black, and raise their standards (or keep them raised). If the standards are this low, DC is only going to give black fans copies of copies, characters with no development, background furniture, side characters, characters totally reliant on white characters, and so on. This is why black fans are often complaining yet they keep accepting stuff like this.

Personally, I think black fans deserve better than all of that. They deserve original heroes that get proper development, with their own stories, with effort put into them and their world, This Wally West is basically the bottom of the barrel. Like you said, a copy of a copy who doesn't even have his own name whether as a hero or a civilian. He is literally wearing a white character's clothes and name. This is BEYOND lazy. People need to see that. The character was never meant to have any real effort put into him. He was meant to spite fans of Wally West.

[Ascended]

Impulse still exist and has more fans so not really.

Wally is a character a whole generation of people fell in love with and still follow to this day. No matter how hard DC tries he is not going anywhere.

At the current stance of things with Wallace if he went away some people would care but in a month or two the majority of people will never really think about again.

I mean, I'd love to see Bart hanging out with Barry. We've only gotten a tiny, tiny taste of that (and that was before Flashpoint!) but Bart's also past the "sidekick" level. He's past the point where he's going to greatly benefit from constant training and supervision. Not to mention Bart's a poor choice for a sidekick; he' too impulsive. I want Bart to be more involved with the family, but reducing him to sidekick status (which he's never been anyway) isn't going to help him.

Wally's a grown man who needs to find his own niche in the world. And maybe this whole "Flash of the multiverse" thing they're doing right now is it. I know I've suggested it for him in the past! But again, he's well beyond sidekick status.

Wallace fits that role really well. He's still a new character, young (younger than Bart even, I believe), and *can* benefit a lot from Barry's tutoring. He got off to a rough start and still has some problems that need to be addressed but I think he works pretty well filling in that sidekick role. It's good for Barry to have a junior partner again, and it's good to have a Kid Flash out there again too. Wallace might not stand on his own as a character but he's got a solid role in the Flash family, and for me, that's good enough for now. He's not his own character who can stand on his own, but he's a part of a large family dynasty that's among the most important and storied in comics. It's not a bad home at all.

And yeah, if he disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't cause many ripples, but.....the kid has been around for five seconds, nobody that new is going to be missed by fans to any real degree. Give Wallace some time. We're already seeing fans start to warm up to him. A few more years and he might be as "safe" as he can be.

[dswynne]

Given the Flash’s ability to travel to multiple earths: What if the African American Wallace West/Kid Flash was from another Earth and came here regressed to relearn his Flash abilities before returning home ?

I mean to me this is crazy enough to make sense when given the Flash’s current abilities to mess up with those closest to him.

What if...this was disingenuous question? If you're a "Big Wally" fan, and prefer him over "Little Wally", the just state so. There is nothing wrong with the character. Big Wally is the Flash, Bart is Impulse, and Little Wally is the new Kid Flash. There you go.

[DragonsChi]

Considering black representation in the Flash family, I would much rather see more done with XS, who I actually think is a cool character, than continuing anything with this fake Wally West.

What you're saying about DC's black characters is true, and I believe it would do black fans a lot good to stop buying into ploys like this just because the character is black, and raise their standards (or keep them raised). If the standards are this low, DC is only going to give black fans copies of copies, characters with no development, background furniture, side characters, characters totally reliant on white characters, and so on. This is why black fans are often complaining yet they keep accepting stuff like this.

Personally, I think black fans deserve better than all of that. They deserve original heroes that get proper development, with their own stories, with effort put into them and their world, This Wally West is basically the bottom of the barrel. Like you said, a copy of a copy who doesn't even have his own name whether as a hero or a civilian. He is literally wearing a white character's clothes and name. This is BEYOND lazy. People need to see that. The character was never meant to have any real effort put into him. He was meant to spite fans of Wally West.

Mostly this! Bold especially. (My only disagreement being XS. It's basically the same thing going on and doesn't really solve anything.)

To add the excuses for keeping the character around are more the actual problem of his existence in the first, then they ever do help push why the character is important as is.

It would take little effort and tweaking to adjust Wallace into a character that fits the brand but differentiates him enough so he seems less like a Vengeful White Mans retaliation on the fans and more like a character with a well thought out concept.

On a side note it also never ceases to amaze me how white fans can be so adamant that black fans just eat the scraps they are given. While sporting the nerve that they are morally inept ones for not accepting it. Miss me pls.

Anyway, I would love for someone to give a solid reason as to why a power tweak can't be done? Why not instead of Super Speed he can turn himself or others he is holding into Speedforce lighting to give him more of a teleportation power. Same concept is there, still technically a FLASH, and he would be changed enough so everyone will know he serves a purpose of being there outside of just being the Black Flash.

[Ascended]

It would take little effort and tweaking to adjust Wallace into a character that fits the brand but differentiates him enough so he seems less like a Vengeful White Mans retaliation on the fans and more like a character with a well thought out concept.

I think the current book has done a solid job of making Wallace feel like his own character and less like a weird, flawed version of someone else. Wallace still needs a lot of development, but he *has* come a long way from where he started. I think Wally being back is great, as it allows Wallace to develop along his own path instead of having to recycle Wally's development.

And I don't think changing his powers would really make much of a difference. The character's real problems lie in the reasons for his creation and the shadow of that, which he's still under, not in his powerset.

Now, if you mean having Wallace develop his own unique tricks, then I'm totally down with that. Wally manipulates kinetic energy in a way no one else ever has. Bart used to be able to make duplicates. Wallace having his own tricks is something he definitely needs. He doesn't need a different powerset, he just needs to find a few ways to use super speed in ways that others aren't.

But please, no lightning manipulation. We have an overabundance of black heroes who throw lightning. Wallace doesn't need to be another one.

[DragonsChi]

I think the current book has done a solid job of making Wallace feel like his own character and less like a weird, flawed version of someone else. Wallace still needs a lot of development, but he *has* come a long way from where he started. I think Wally being back is great, as it allows Wallace to develop along his own path instead of having to recycle Wally's development.

And I don't think changing his powers would really make much of a difference. The character's real problems lie in the reasons for his creation and the shadow of that, which he's still under, not in his powerset.

Now, if you mean having Wallace develop his own unique tricks, then I'm totally down with that. Wally manipulates kinetic energy in a way no one else ever has. Bart used to be able to make duplicates. Wallace having his own tricks is something he definitely needs. He doesn't need a different powerset, he just needs to find a few ways to use super speed in ways that others aren't.

But please, no lightning manipulation. We have an overabundance of black heroes who throw lightning. Wallace doesn't need to be another one.

Disagree. The character needs a CLEAR and DEFINED difference from not only the other Flash's but from the REAL Wally West himself.

Otherwise, Wallace is nothing more then the slower, younger, and black Flash. He will always be competing with Wally, Barry, Bart, Jay, Jessie, and even XS to some extent for screen time, relevance, and fan attention.

A tweak of his power set gives him a CLEAR and DEFINED difference that has ZERO to do with his color. Instead focusing on what he can do and what he can bring to the family. Something like combat teleportation powers would achieve the same goal. It could give him a SINGLE power with Multiple uses just like Super Speed. It would fit the theme, he could even have FLASH be the sound he makes when he ports in and out. So on and so for.

Heck, it doesn't even have to be teleportation. It could be anything that fits with the Speed Force and the Flash concept that's not Super Speed. But his powers at this point need to be reworked. Because DC is not changing his name and they seem to be content on keeping the walking mockery of Long Time Fans and Black Readers around, at the very least they can falsely pretend that they intended on giving him real growth with a different power set that works with the Flash concept.

[Modamy]

Disagree. The character needs a CLEAR and DEFINED difference from not only the other Flash's but from the REAL Wally West himself.

Otherwise, Wallace is nothing more then the slower, younger, and black Flash. He will always be competing with Wally, Barry, Bart, Jay, Jessie, and even XS to some extent for screen time, relevance, and fan attention.

A tweak of his power set gives him a CLEAR and DEFINED difference that has ZERO to do with his color. Instead focusing on what he can do and what he can bring to the family. Something like combat teleportation powers would achieve the same goal. It could give him a SINGLE power with Multiple uses just like Super Speed. It would fit the theme, he could even have FLASH be the sound he makes when he ports in and out. So on and so for.

Heck, it doesn't even have to be teleportation. It could be anything that fits with the Speed Force and the Flash concept that's not Super Speed. But his powers at this point need to be reworked. Because DC is not changing his name and they seem to be content on keeping the walking mockery of Long Time Tans and Black Readers around, at the very least they can falsely pretend that they intended on giving him real growth with a different power set that works with the Flash concept.

I don't agree that he needs a different power set. All giving him a different power would accomplish is give him a superficial difference to other Flash family members and that is not real growth. All most Flash family members have on a superficial level is a different costume, but what makes people enjoy them are the good stories they are attached too and no one is calling Jay old man Flash or Wally slightly younger Flash. Which is why I'll keep screaming at the clouds all he needs are good stories focused on him and actual character development.

[DragonsChi]

I don't agree that he needs a different power set. All giving him a different power would accomplish is give him a superficial difference to other Flash family members and that is not real growth. All most Flash family members have on a superficial level is a different costume, but what makes people enjoy them are the good stories they are attached too and no one is calling Jay old man Flash or Wally slightly younger Flash. Which is why I'll keep screaming at the clouds all he needs are good stories focused on him and actual character development[.

False.

Studies have continually shown that when consumers are face with multiple relativity similar products by enlarge they go with the most familiar first before even considering choosing something else.

Ergo, when faced with Coke, Cola Oh!, RC, and so on COKE is chosen more then any other brand. Therefor, when presented with option of Barry, Wally, or Wallace fans will go with the one that is most familiar being Wally or Barry and Wallace will never get proper footing. You take away the choice by removing the brand or character, in this instance, you risk loosing the consumer all together to another DIFFERENT product that satisfy the same want/need.

Which we saw and continue seeing when DC got rid of Wally. (Or just about any other popular character)


Edit: Your argument then should be " How does change his power do anything at all then?"

Easy changing his power essentially means giving Wallace a different flavor. So though it is the same BRAND it a different enough item to bring those who might like Coke but whose taste buds are more receptive to Cherry.

Ergo making Wallace essentially Cherry Coke. Giving readers a different reason purchase , be interested, and consume him as a long term product. In this case "character development" alone is not going to get past the surface thought of "Oh...its Black Flash" . "Oh, its Black Flash" is not going to bring in sales. Its basically the same thing with a different coat of paint.

[Modamy]

But Wallace isn't competing against those characters he's competing alongside them. He's Kid Flash; he's Barry's partner. He'll be built up alongside Barry and if the day comes that he could potentially hold a solo title it'll be after developing and building a fanbase within the main Flash book.
Only Barry and Wally are really competing against one another and that's only because DC's idiotic and childish management have pit them against each other... and it's working since Wally fans eat up stuff like Flash Forward (not that I can blame them). It's just manipulative marketing.