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  1. #121
    Spectacular Member Modamy's Avatar
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    We got Wally and Wallace. Barry and Bart. Iris and Irey. Jay and Jai. This is probably totally unintentional, but c'mon. Let's just accept the weirdness.

  2. #122
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modamy View Post
    We got Wally and Wallace. Barry and Bart. Iris and Irey. Jay and Jai. This is probably totally unintentional, but c'mon. Let's just accept the weirdness.
    But only one of those was created to be an actual replacement and erase the original version, as well as hold the exact same position in the family with Iris. There is a lot more overlap.

  3. #123
    Spectacular Member Modamy's Avatar
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    He still looks immediately different and can develop more from now.

  4. #124
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modamy View Post
    We got Wally and Wallace. Barry and Bart. Iris and Irey. Jay and Jai. This is probably totally unintentional, but c'mon. Let's just accept the weirdness.
    Accepting weirdness would fine and dandy. But who is wally? The nephew of iris west who became kid flash. The creatives adapting flashes will not think twice before using wallace as wally. That just sucks for wally west.
    Bart, jai nor irey share the same relationship. Nor do they go through the same progress. They shunned wally of from the main flash book. So that there would not be a problem. If dc itself thinks its a problem, treats it like a problem and decides the cure is to treat wally like second rate. Then we do have a problem.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Accepting weirdness would fine and dandy. But who is wally? The nephew of iris west who became kid flash. The creatives adapting flashes will not think twice before using wallace as wally. That just sucks for wally west.
    Bart, jai nor irey share the same relationship. Nor do they go through the same progress. They shunned wally of from the main flash book. So that there would not be a problem. If dc itself thinks its a problem, treats it like a problem and decides the cure is to treat wally like second rate. Then we do have a problem.
    Changing his name to "Ace" isn't going to solve that, is it?

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modamy View Post
    We got Wally and Wallace. Barry and Bart. Iris and Irey. Jay and Jai. This is probably totally unintentional, but c'mon. Let's just accept the weirdness.
    The issue goes beyond the names, though.

    Wallace is Iris' nephew that she basically adopted, has a best friend named Chunk, blows things up when he vibrates through them, had a "romance" with Raven, Tar Pit as his 'arch-enemy', and has an interest in fixing up cars. All those things also belong(ed) to Wally at one point or another. There's a lot of overlap there besides the same/similar name problem.

    Now they have done a better job of making Wallace more distinct as of late. Priest did a great job with that in my opinion. But it's something they need to continue to do instead of giving him Wally's hand-me-downs like they did at the beginning of Rebirth. And if it comes down to Wally or Wallace, we know it won't be Wally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Then they've fucked up and need to stop doing that.
    Yeah, they should. They really got me for a split second with this in DCeased.
    Last edited by Rend20; 10-21-2019 at 08:18 PM.

  7. #127
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Changing his name to "Ace" isn't going to solve that, is it?
    It might. Atleast, they won't view wally as something that holds back wallace which is the character they want to push.creatives would be able to easily differentiate the two characters as two distinct ones not some wierd forced coincidence.

  8. #128
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    And let's be honest - Wally needs to adapt and change too, otherwise he will become irrelevant. Every character needs to be as distinct as possible and have a well defined role in order to thrive.

    Some fans don't want to hear this. Back when Barry Allen returned there was a lot of teeth gnashing and harrumphing that Wally didn't need a new costume - "he has a slightly different belt, his eyes are green, nobody will be confused!"

    There's overlap between Barry and Wally. There's overlap between Wally and Wallace. Barry's role is clearly defined as The Flash, the series headliner. Wallace's role is clearly defined as Kid Flash, the sidekick. Wally is the character most in need of something new, something built to last.

  9. #129
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    And let's be honest - Wally needs to adapt and change too, otherwise he will become irrelevant. Every character needs to be as distinct as possible and have a well defined role in order to thrive.

    Some fans don't want to hear this. Back when Barry Allen returned there was a lot of teeth gnashing and harrumphing that Wally didn't need a new costume - "he has a slightly different belt, his eyes are green, nobody will be confused!"

    There's overlap between Barry and Wally. There's overlap between Wally and Wallace. Barry's role is clearly defined as The Flash, the series headliner. Wallace's role is clearly defined as Kid Flash, the sidekick. Wally is the character most in need of something new, something built to last.
    That's pot calling kettle. Barry basically said wally's costume is his. How does that help wally? Anyways,Wally's new costume is the best flash costume. It accentuates his features. It's a decent call back to his kid flash days. There was and there will always be multiple flashes running around, always. He is the flash- the fastest being in dc cosmos . As for his role, they basically sent him away universe hoping. Didn't they? He can be the guardian of the speedforce wall or be the multiversal flash or something.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    There's overlap between Barry and Wally.
    Is there really that much overlap there beyond both being called the Flash?

    Both have very distinct personalities and histories from one another. Whatever overlap exists there is a failure on the creators/editorial part than it is with the characters being too similar. Their suits are easily distinct from one another now. I mean, it's not like Wally dated a Barry love interest or was a CSI (in the comics) which is the equivalent of overlap between Wally/Wallace that I was getting at.

    Wally is the character most in need of something new, something built to last.
    They're probably just going to stick him in the Mobius Chair at the end of Flash Forward to solve their Wally issue. He's allowed to be around as long as he isn't allowed to be Wally West.
    Last edited by Rend20; 10-21-2019 at 08:44 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    Is there really that much overlap there beyond both being called the Flash?

    Both have very distinct personalities and histories from one another.
    They haven't defined Wally's place in the current DC Universe since Barry came back.

    What does he do? What is his role? What is unique about the character? If he's just another super-hero called The Flash who uses his speed to fight crime, then he'll drift into irrelevance.

    A rich history only goes so far. If he's not bringing anything to the table in the present, he'll end up as a background character.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If he's just another super-hero called The Flash who uses his speed to fight crime, then he'll drift into irrelevance.
    But completely changing the character to the point it's just Wally West in name only is the equivalent of getting rid of him. Now if it's something like Grayson where he's still allowed to be Wally and do Wally-like things where the circumstances around him are different, I would certainly be open to that.

    Like, the idea of him being some sort of multiverse surfer wouldn't be my first choice, but it would be acceptable assuming he had his own book and could occasionally visit the main Earth.

    Otherwise, I personally didn't have a problem with his overall usage in Rebirth. Now the quality of said usage was poor in my opinion, but him being in a team book, him being allowed to appear in other books where it made sense, and him playing a role in an event-style story every blue moon wasn't the worst thing in the world.
    Last edited by Rend20; 10-21-2019 at 10:19 PM.

  13. #133
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    And let's be honest - Wally needs to adapt and change too, otherwise he will become irrelevant.
    As long as he does from a position that is similar to the one he was in 2005 at most, fine.

    Put him in his best self, and then start to tinker.

    What has been done with him with the intention of setting him apart from Barry -specially with Barry absorbing lots of Wally's peculiarities - is crap and should be treated as such.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  14. #134
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Daniel West being the Reverse Flash before Eobard Thawne was a big mistake and would make a lot more sense if he didn’t exist in the main universe and just went there to mess with crap. Keep Iris as a biological West but remove the abusive childhood aspect and sub Charlotte back in for Daniel and have her dad be scientist Ira married to living Nadine.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    As long as he does from a position that is similar to the one he was in 2005 at most, fine.

    Put him in his best self, and then start to tinker.
    His personality doesn't need to be changed or anything.

    But Wally West starring in "A FLASH SPINOFF" is, by necessity, going to be a different animal to Wally West starring in "THE FLASH".

    Whatever it is needs to be a worthwhile spin-off IP, with its own hook, not just "more of the same".

    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    What has been done with him with the intention of setting him apart from Barry -specially with Barry absorbing lots of Wally's peculiarities - is crap and should be treated as such.
    Nothing has been done, aside from a new costume. Everything has been on a story-by-story basis. No effort has been made to establish a long-term status quo or mission statement for the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Daniel West being the Reverse Flash before Eobard Thawne was a big mistake and would make a lot more sense if he didn’t exist in the main universe and just went there to mess with crap.
    Continuity has already been re-written to make Thawne the original Reverse-Flash again. Daniel West was a later Reverse-Flash.

    Daniel is Iris's brother and Wallace's father. What is the advantage in making something more complicated than it needs to be, especially for the sake of a character who is dead? What is the advantage of stacking fixes on top of fixes, when the current fix already functions?

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