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  1. #1
    Incredible Member tib2d2's Avatar
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    Default Jon, the Son of Superman

    So its been about 4.5 years since we were given a Superman with a biological son with Lois Lane. IMO I've never been a fan of Superman being a father, but thats just me. Now we have Jon headed to the 31st Century to be with the LoSH.

    Maybe this is a tactic to solve the "lose end" of Superman having a son, and now the main Supes books can only have Lois as his family member. Or maybe its a way to make Jon as Superboy an even bigger part of the Superman comics family?

    Did you hate idea of Jon from the start? Did you love the concept of Lois and Clark having a son? Do you prefer a Superman who's not a dad and just married to Lois?

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    "Loose End" - long term. Which is a shame, because I really liked Kid!Jon - some of my favorite Superman stuff with Tomasi.

    5G rumors have Jon actually Superman. I find that, and him in the Legion, as Jon becoming a Clark-stand-in instead of having a unique role. When the next reboot comes in 5-10 years, it'll be easier to erase him.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll take off as the newer, cooler Superman and last a long time. No promises he won't. But the character I liked is gone, and I find it was an absolute character-assassination of Lois that allowed that happen (via leaving him with psycho Jor-El), so I can't think it's something that will ever sit well with me. Especially if he's removed the family/parents (which is actually good for characters that actually got to grow up gradually, and get to carve their own niche instead taking dad's old place), because the family aspect is just gone.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tib2d2 View Post
    So its been about 4.5 years since we were given a Superman with a biological son with Lois Lane. IMO I've never been a fan of Superman being a father, but thats just me. Now we have Jon headed to the 31st Century to be with the LoSH.

    Maybe this is a tactic to solve the "lose end" of Superman having a son, and now the main Supes books can only have Lois as his family member. Or maybe its a way to make Jon as Superboy an even bigger part of the Superman comics family?

    Did you hate idea of Jon from the start? Did you love the concept of Lois and Clark having a son? Do you prefer a Superman who's not a dad and just married to Lois?
    I feel like this exact convo is happening in literally 3 other threads and, to be honest, it’s starting to feel both tiresome and frustrating to have to re-litigate the exact same arguments over and over again. It always seems to just wind up veering into some crappy comments about Lois and their marriage and I’m over it.

    Yes, I love the idea of Lois and Clark with a biological child. I like the idea of an adopted child too and I believe adopted children are equal and I would welcome Chris back as well. This is a story about hope and the impossible. It’s a story about miracles. Nothing about this story is logical. It’s extremely beautiful to me to finally see Lois and Clark have a child together beating the odds of however impossible it may have seemed. It’s a beautiful tribute to the blending of both Kryptonian and human and creates a legacy and future that I believe, if used wisely, sustains the franchise.

    Oh a personal note, as a woman who experienced years and years of painful infertility with my own husband, it means a lot to me personally to see Lois and Clark have their miracle baby. This is a story about anything being possible and it means a lot to me that the impossible happened here. They have always wanted children and it was stupid that DC refused to allow them to have children in canon for so long.

    I did not agree with aging Jon and I’m bothered by it. He was a window to a new age group of fans—something DC desperately needs. But I also don’t agree that it ruined him as a character. How he continues to evolve from here remains to be seen.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 10-18-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Hated it from the start, and as each year passes what they do with him makes me hate it more and more. I prefer a Superman who's not a dad and not married to Lois either. I think the marriage has made both characters less interesting. Jon meanwhile, in my opinion, is making the entire lore worse with the creative choices given to him. These are all fictional characters at the end of the day, they don't decide what happens themselves, we all understand this, but the resentment toward the character itself is there nonetheless.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Superman Returns and Damian Wayne completely killed children of Superman stories for me. I think I was liking the idea in the late 90's back when I enjoyed the early years of marriage, but I find that I like the "classic" Superman stories the best. I like kids as a bookend for Superman's story, but not so much the middle. Like, if you had a four-season Superman cartoon, bring the kid along in season four.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I've always been a huge fan of stories that center around families (conventional or otherwise), whether they're comics, TV shows, books, movies, whatever. It's why I love the Batfamily, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Runaways, Incredibles, etc. So when I heard one of my favorite writers was not only going onto a Superman book but was bringing back the pre-Flashpoint Supes, who was married and had a kid, to say that I was ecstatic was an understatement. I didn't really have a lot of interest in Superman before. I didn't hate him. But I didn't really care about him either. But Tomasi's run changed that. I had a blast reading it and I gained a lot of respect for Clark as a character.

    I loved Clark and Lois as a couple. And I loved Jon not just as an extension of Superman, but as his own character. The same way I loved Conner back in the day. I loved seeing his interactions with the world around him as he was growing and learning to be a hero, both from his father and from his adventures with Damian. And, even though he wasn't a teen, I was REALLY rooting for him to be a part of Damian's Titans (and was kind of annoyed at how the only thing keeping him off the team was Damian's poor timing). He was just a REALLY fun character and I looked forward to seeing how he'd grow and come into his own, the same way I have for so many other young heroes.

    ...But I guess, in the end, I was a fool for getting so attached to him. Bendis had other plans and now we're rushing right into him being grown when we barely had enough time to enjoy him as a kid. And what's worse? His grown up self is reeeeeeally fucking boring and is more or less my biggest fear come to life when it comes to legacy characters: Seeing them lose their individuality and turning into younger versions of their parents/mentors. I won't harp on it anymore because I'm pretty sure 50% of my post count is dedicated to shitting on Bendis' ideas. But damn. What a waste of a perfectly good character.
    Last edited by Blue22; 10-18-2019 at 02:20 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Hated it from the start, and as each year passes what they do with him makes me hate it more and more. I prefer a Superman who's not a dad and not married to Lois either. I think the marriage has made both characters less interesting. Jon meanwhile, in my opinion, is making the entire lore worse with the creative choices given to him. These are all fictional characters at the end of the day, they don't decide what happens themselves, we all understand this, but the resentment toward the character itself is there nonetheless.
    I honestly can’t tell if this is meant to be satirical because of how true this is.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Hated it from the start, and as each year passes what they do with him makes me hate it more and more. I prefer a Superman who's not a dad and not married to Lois either. I think the marriage has made both characters less interesting. Jon meanwhile, in my opinion, is making the entire lore worse with the creative choices given to him. These are all fictional characters at the end of the day, they don't decide what happens themselves, we all understand this, but the resentment toward the character itself is there nonetheless.
    Not even us Jon fans wanted him aged up and to take away the Legion, and by all reports, even the title of Superman (not like this). What's more, this crap is happening to the other big League names too, not just Supes.

    Anyway...
    As I've said many times before, I really enjoyed kid Jon. Seeing him grow up in the super hero world, make friends, go on adventures, but also learn important lessons, and of course Super Sons was incredibly fun. The family dynamic was great, and even seeing Lois go against the forces of Apokolips for her boys was great.

    Since Bendis took over though, effectively erasing kid Jon and completely altering Clark's and Lois' characters, there's been zero enjoyment of the Super books for me.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    "Loose End" - long term. Which is a shame, because I really liked Kid!Jon - some of my favorite Superman stuff with Tomasi.

    5G rumors have Jon actually Superman. I find that, and him in the Legion, as Jon becoming a Clark-stand-in instead of having a unique role. When the next reboot comes in 5-10 years, it'll be easier to erase him.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he'll take off as the newer, cooler Superman and last a long time. No promises he won't. But the character I liked is gone, and I find it was an absolute character-assassination of Lois that allowed that happen (via leaving him with psycho Jor-El), so I can't think it's something that will ever sit well with me. Especially if he's removed the family/parents (which is actually good for characters that actually got to grow up gradually, and get to carve their own niche instead taking dad's old place), because the family aspect is just gone.
    Pretty much this

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    I don't think DC is about to erase him. However I can see them going the Chris Kent route and de aging him at some point to put him back on even level with Damian. He has fans, and they are using him in other shows, see the Crises thing on Supergirl, and will use him probably for the next YJ series since he is around. So likely, especially if Marvels YA series- gets a live action show we probably will see him showing up as his younger self at some point.

    We've had ups and downs, let's not write off Jon yet.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed Jon's first appearance during Convergence, and said at the time that it would be great if DC continued his story. Lo and behold, for once what I wanted actually happened, and they did just that. I really enjoyed Lois and Clark and Rebirth Superman's family adventures of Clark, Lois and Jon. I was not happy when Bendis sent Jon and Lois off into space, then gave Lois and Clark marriage issues and aged Jon up. They had a good thing going with the family and ruined it, in my view.

    It's amazing what a roller coaster ride these books can be, great one moment then down the next month.
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    While I think the character is an interesting thought experiment, I don't think Jon is essential to the Superman Mythos. Maybe someday Jon will be as indispensable as the Kents, the Daily Planet & Staff, Lois, Luthor, Supergirl, Krypto, exact but not as things currently stand. There is nothing about Jon which is compelling enough to include him in all or even most adaptions. Jon is in a gray area alongside concepts such as Power Girl or arguably Kon El. Superman with a son Superman without a son, Sups works either way.
    Last edited by Celgress; 10-24-2019 at 09:02 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    He'll never come close to being essential. Lots of concepts have come and gone in the Superman mythos over his 80+ years that have been far more successful yet at the same time don't garner essential status. I'd say there's really only a handful of things that are absolutely essential to his mythos or ever will be. Not even Supergirl and Krypto are essential when you get right down to it. I mean, those characters I love and wouldn't necessarily want a lore without them, but Superman doesn't need them to function as Superman.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

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