All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[PwrdOn]

We can only hope

Except for her not getting a cabinet position, because I do think that will happen. But man, everything is really a DNC conspiracy with you, isn’t it?

Eh I’m kind of stuck in that mode of thinking for the time being, plus it is more fun to speculate about all these back room betrayals than it is to delude myself into thinking everything is always above board.

[jetengine]

That's an excellent message she has. We had the same thing happen in these threads. Frankly, the idea that black voters have to be shamed for their voting choices is racist.

Which makes it really ironic that those people making demeaning, racist remarks can't figure out why those same black voters want nothing to do with their Bernaid drinking nonsense.

Question, can we not shame them for voting Republican though ?

[kidfresh512]

Question, can we not shame them for voting Republican though ?

What does that even mean?

[Theleviathan]

Question, can we not shame them for voting Republican though ?

I'd rather we not shame anyone for their vote. We can shake our head and be frustrated, but openly saying they aren't informed or smart enough to vote for the "right" person?

I mean....the hell is that?

[Theleviathan]

As a black person, I disagree with your nonsense and disingenuous attacks on people like me, and voters who don't support your Black people hate Bernie narrative/smear.
When it's not true.

One of your brethren was doing it Tuesday night right here in this thread. It was all over twitter.

But you've made it known that you believe what you want and facts/truth are secondary to you. So I'm not going to expend much effort to show you.

[Billy Batson]

Here's hoping she does the right thing.
BUT I wouldn't count on it.
Bernie should court her, but run like she's gonna endorse Biden.

Her buying into the sexist, and Bernie Bros narrative was not a good look on her.

So let's see what happens next.

There were reports of both camps courting her.

[jetengine]

I'd rather we not shame anyone for their vote. We can shake our head and be frustrated, but openly saying they aren't informed or smart enough to vote for the "right" person?

I mean....the hell is that?

Sorry I was thinking less "black people" specific but just in general. I often deal with Brexiteers who have clearly voted for racist conmen and repeat endless bouts of ignorance that will inevitably hurt people, so it feels kind of hard NOT to call them fucking idiots.

[Theleviathan]

Sorry I was thinking less "black people" specific but just in general. I often deal with Brexiteers who have clearly voted for racist conmen and repeat endless bouts of ignorance that will inevitably hurt people, so it feels kind of hard NOT to call them fucking idiots.

I would say that sort of choice is more stark in contrast no? I mean, I know there will be some that try to paint Biden as some evil person and Bernie as a Knight in Shining Armor, but the disparity isn't that great IMO. Not enough to start castigating people for being too dumb to know what they want. At least in my opinion.

[TheDarman]

As a black person, I disagree with your nonsense and disingenuous attacks on people like me, and voters who don't support your Black people hate Bernie narrative/smear.
When it's not true.

I don’t think that was being said.

Of course, there are black people who like Sanders. Heck, Sanders has high favorability ratings and more than half the party likes him. The same is true of all the candidates in the race this time with the lone exception of Tulsi Gabbard.

The point is that there is a lot of vitriol out there directed at “othering” black folks who like Biden and them completely missing the point of his support. Posts like this are efforts to help clear it up and to stop the pervasive demonization of black people who didn’t break for Bernie and instead overwhelmingly supported Bernie. And Biden was by Obama throughout the eight years he was in office. He defended Obama against racist onslaught after racist onslaught. And a lot of people really admire Obama, as a good, intelligent, family man, and admire Biden for having his back. This leads a lot of people to make the, I think quite fair, prediction that 2020 Biden isn’t going to be 1994 Biden (even though, as I’ve said, even black folks had majority support for the crime bill at the time). Meanwhile, Sanders promising revolution I think makes a lot of people nervous that we are putting too much on voters’ plates AND Sanders is coming off a record of saying that he would want Obama primaried and attacks on Obama’s record. For people that like Obama, including myself, which is why I break away from the vast majority of white, young male liberals, that is insulting and, frankly, minimizes both what he accomplished and the steps taken so Sanders can even make the case he is making.

These are the points. I don’t think it was ever intended as an erasure of the fact that black folks support Sanders. Because they do. Just like young, white male liberals with college degrees also don’t holistically support Sanders. I don’t. That being said, I have the maturity to check my privilege and vote for Sanders if it comes down between him and Trump. I’m not an infant. I know what is at stake.

[KOSLOX]

The whole Sanders Movement just feels an awful lot like "Brother Jack and The Brotherhood" for my tastes.

[Celgress]

The whole Sanders Movement just feels an awful lot like "Brother Jack and The Brotherhood" for my tastes.

Hahahaha, an apt comparison.

[PwrdOn]

Honestly, you guys are so desperate to fit us into your narrative that all Bernie supporters are these toxic, aggressive trolls barely different from Trump supporters, that you're completely overlooking what we're saying. We are not saying that black voters are dumb or misinformed or unable to think for themselves, all we're saying is that, as far as we're concerned, they made a strategic miscalculation backing the wrong horse in this race, just like they did when they threw their weight behind Hillary in 2016. Unfortunately, black voters are a captive audience for the Democrats in the general election, which means that their one and only chance to exercise their political leverage is in the primary. And while I would like to say that all of the promises that Biden has made are lies that he will flip flop on the minute that he secures the nomination and pivots toward pandering to white swing voters, I'm not sure that he made ANY concrete promises in terms of policy, which means that black folks threw away their best chance to really influence the political process in this country and got little more than vague insinuations in return. And for all those people that voted for Biden purely for electability reasons, keep in mind that this is a candidate who can barely form a complete sentence without making some embarrassing gaffe, a candidate whose involvement in that Burisma nonsense is going to make the Clinton email server look like a fond memory once the Republicans start bombarding the airwaves with conspiracy theories, a candidate who doesn't have any real base of support even in his home state and essentially has just been a water carrier for the banking sector his entire career, a candidate who is leaning heavily on his tenure as Obama's VP but was never trusted enough to have any real power or responsibility during that administration.

It is true that Bernie didn't make any promises to uplift the condition of black people specifically, but he has a whole range of policy proposals that will have undoubtedly positive impacts for black folks up and down the socioeconomic ladder. He may have to deal with a hostile House and Senate, not to mention the courts, in order to pass his agenda, but ANY Democratic president would have to face the same obstacles and even if you don't support Bernie you have to respect his conviction, dedication to his principles, and willingness to fight for what he believes in, none of which you could honestly say about Joe Biden. And sure, you may look at all that with a skeptical eye and think that this is just another white politician promising the moon who will forget all about black people the minute he gets into office, but if that's true about Bernie it DEFINITELY applies ten times over to Biden. I firmly believe Bernie and progressives as a whole take the interests of black people far closer to our hearts than Biden and other wishy washy centrists ever could. You don't have to trust me, but at the very least, think twice before listening to all these moderates who want to slander all of us as racists and toxic bros.

[Theleviathan]

The whole Sanders Movement just feels an awful lot like "Brother Jack and The Brotherhood" for my tastes.

Damn.....

/thread

[Kieran_Frost]

I think the hard part about picking a Veep is that you want somebody with name recognition from a swing state, who's maybe won an election there recently... but you also don't want to lose a senator or governor in that state in the special election that follows.

It's a shame that's such a key part of it, because it heavily diminishes (in my opinion) the point of a VP. That person could become President. They should be picked because they'd make a good president, not because they bring a key state.

Berners/Bernie Bros are to Bernie what Fundamentalists are to Jesus.

A very wonderful (and accurate) analogy!

That's not why his left allies think he's an anti-semite. It's a straw man from right wing propaganda.

It's a complex issue, but it's far more than "just" right wing propaganda. On one end you take into account the number of MPs who left citing his anti-semitism as a reason for quitting (and you ask yourself about the knowledge one possessing being in the circle, over the general public). But for me the 'odd' (I'll say odd) thing that stuck out was that bizarre battle against taking the IHRA's definition of anti-semitism. It made me uncomfortable in the conclusions I drew from it.

Momentum like him sure but aren't above dumping him if need be.

But they haven't. I mean he should have been out the second he lead the party into one of the worst elections in a hundred years. The fact he stayed around AFTER TWO lost elections (when most leaders don't stick after one) implies Momentum weren't dumping him.

[SquirrelMan]

If Bernie wins the nomination and runs against Trump.
I expect the Democratic party to fully support and not sabotage him and lie about his supporters.

But I also see a future where if Biden is the nominee. Bernie will run hard for him, and offer his support. Some of his voters will go to Biden, most will.
But Biden runs and Trump clobbers him. The Establishment is going to 100% blame Bernie for the loss, and continue their smears of Progressives and
learn absolutely nothing.

Don't you get tired of complaining about things that have not even happened yet?