All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Steel Inquisitor]

Have Warren or Buttigieg spoken out against these attacks made by their supporters?

Why did you have to wait until I posted it to say anything?

You claim to care about harassment but you only ever bring it up when it has something to do with Bernie.

This is really disingenuous. I've explained it over and over, including condemning when other political campaign groups do it. Stop gaslighting me.

Are there anymore Bernie supporters here who won't support the Bros? CBR really needs to increase its population.

This is the flaw you have. You have links.

Presenting evidence everyone avoids isn't a flaw, it's the opposite. But please, I am interested in your opinion on the links I made. Tell me what you thought of them.

Other people have supplied links and examples with other candidates past and present.

Which I condemned and commented on.

You claim that it's more prevalent with Bernie supporters but then when pressed to provide some actual quantification of that you pivot and say people are being dismissive. And quite frankly when the people who continually bring this up are the most negative people in this thread in regards to Sanders and would rather gaslight and attack rather than actually back there hypothesis up with some numbers it's going to make people skeptical.

I provided many examples which explained why the Bernie Bros are more dangerous then the other fanatics, while condemning their actions, as well. It's not like the Bernie supporters are doing it, are they? They prefer it near happened so they can insist on the narrative that the Bernie Bros are in the right. Hard to do that when evidence is accepted which puts a pin in that stance. We're not the ones gaslighting. They're not "skeptical," they know what they're doing.

They've been condemned by Sanders and nobody here has said they agree or embraced them. The natural pivot you and others have made is that it's not enough. Quite frankly most of us don't believe you guys actually have a stance that would be enough and it's just some red meat. And I'll say you can say that other people are being dismissive but you and others have screamed false equivalency and goal post moving when thirty and others brought examples from other campaigns. So what's it say about you and others that you've all deflected rather than condemn it. I haven't heard any of those candidates condemn that and I haven't seen you and others on this board or the internet in general condemn it.

They haven't condemned anything. They've been moving goal posts, whataboutism, defending and excusing harassment and the hypocrisy is though the roof. Yes, they have - subtly and overtly. The Bernie Bros has had a loud defense force here.

Are you a Republican? If you aren't don't bring up thirty - he's not your ally if you are genuinely on the left.

I accepted some of those examples as being true, made a post about it. Keeps getting ignored.

Myself and others aren't the ones doing the deflecting. Many in this thread don't dare bring up the words about my link to the death threats or the stalking of delegates in '16. Why is that? Or the Black reporter.

I've been condemning harassment for weeks here, why don't you ask this of your allies in this thread? It's telling how you're bothering me about it and not them.

Never would have thought links with death threats, stalking and harassment of a Black reporter wouldn't cut it as great evidence against the people who attack them.

And yeah sorry the opinion of women and minorities on Sanders is kind of in and he's strong in both issues.

You continue to ignore the victims who are women and minorities when they're not Sanders supporters. Of course, this really isn't about sex or race, this is about whether people support Sanders or not. That's the common denominator for the Bernie supporters defending the Bros.

So yeah when it's a bunch of white guys who never liked him, that refuse to quantify there assessment, that refuse to take the same ownership of their support base, that continual just say "he's not doing enough", yeah it just comes off as reaching for another argument and dismissing the feelings of the people you claim are at risk because you think you know better.

Moving the goal posts. Attacking the posters rather then acknowledging the meat of their argument with links to Bro harassment. You may not be overt but your agenda protecting the Bros is clear.

What about the feelings of the minorities and women who were victims of the Bros? Why aren't you concerned about what they have to say?

What does not liking Sanders have anything to do with it? I can not like Bernie and think harassment is bad.

Like no offense it's hypocritical of Buttigieg and his supporters who actually have shitty racial records that garner no minority support and are comprimised of predominately upper middle class and upper class white people to take it upon themselves to be the guardians here.

I'm a Warren supporter. Two, you're ignoring the accounts of minorities and women who have been harassed.

It just comes off as 'when all else fails I'll just externally blame his supporters.

I've blame his staff, too. Why wouldn't I not blame his supporters for doing things like sending death threats?

Like I would challenge you right here, name a single candidate that has done more to address and take precautions on sexual harrassment in their campaign more? Name a single candidate who has openly spoke out about bad online behavior more? Name a single candidate who is being embraced more by the people you are claiming he's putting in danger? There isn't one.

Again, moving the goal posts. Let's refresh your memory of how what had to occur before he finally caught on the looking after women in his campaign should be a priority, shall we?

Let's look at some of the descriptions the women staffers had to suffer through.

https://www.gq.com/story/sexism-prob...nders-campaign

In interviews, women told of makeshift living accommodations on the road, where they were asked to sleep in rooms along with male co-workers they didn’t know. Women who had access to salary records were taken aback to learn that some female staff members made thousands of dollars less than their male counterparts.

https://time.com/5490813/bernie-sand...al-harassment/

The letter echoed claims during the 2016 campaign that some of the Senator’s supporters fostered a culture of toxic masculinity around the campaign – particularly on Twitter and Reddit. Some Sanders supporters became notorious for bombarding Hilary Clinton’s campaign supporters with sexist and racist remarks. Both Clinton and Sanders’ campaigns also faced allegations that staffers faced sexual harassment on the trail.

When the word "predatory" is used to describe a presidential campaign Sanders ran, he no longer has a moral high ground on Bloomberg when it comes to sexual harassment.

Here's Sanders comments on how he missed something which affects half the people in the country on a daily basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...legations-2016

Asked during an interview on CNN if he was aware of the claims at the time, Sanders replied that he was not.

“I was a little bit busy running around the country trying to make the case,” he said.

The no knowledge defense is better than being malicious but the victims suffer all the same. Apathy is no excuse when he had his own Bloomberg's running around under his nose and he did nothing. It was beneath him. This is unacceptable back then and we shouldn't forget how he failed those women under his protection.

To connect this back to the Bros this is what happened to Giulianna Di Lauro Velez.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/...ssment-sexism/

At the same time, I was deeply disappointed by the feedback I received from some on the left. Both myself and other women who spoke on the record about our experiences on Sanders’s campaign received messages and tweets from Sanders supporters accusing us of lying and wanting to purposefully attack the Vermont senator. I was told to “enjoy my 15 minutes of fame” and was mocked while the sexual harassment I endured was normalized. Neoliberals and corporate media are unfair to Sanders and his supporters because our movement threatens their supremacy. But to dismiss our claims as mere bias is at best disingenuous and at worst cruel.

By blindly attacking anyone who raises valid concerns about sexism because it’s “not a good look” for the senator, they are actually making him look worse. Ironically, in their defense of Sanders’s campaign, these individuals are behaving as if acknowledging the presence of sexism and sexual harassment in his campaign is akin to calling Sanders a sexist — the implication that the establishment media seems keen to draw.

She's a woman of colour.

But continue telling me Sanders has no problems with stopping sexual harassment.

[Superbat]

This is really disingenuous. I've explained it over and over, including condemning when other political campaign groups do it. Stop gaslighting me.

Show me.

Show me where you've called out other supporters of harassment without other people bringing it up or you mentioning Bernie so you can go after him and his supporters too.

[numberthirty]

When the word "predatory" is used to describe a presidential campaign Sanders ran, he no longer has a moral high ground on Bloomberg when it comes to sexual harassment.

Here's Sanders comments on how he missed something which affects half the people in the country on a daily basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...legations-2016

First off...

Bloomberg's very campaign is predatory in it's entirety.

If you are going to ignore that in an attempt to somehow try to create a scenario where a candidate who has actually addressed an issue is somehow not on higher moral ground than a candidate who is still keeping NDAs in place when there are women who want to speak out?

Never mind that the the candidate keeping NDAs in place is calling on perfectly valid female candidates to leave the races so that he has a less complicated path to a nomination...

You have lost the forest for the trees.

[Superbat]

She's a woman of colour.

But continue telling me Sanders has no problems with stopping sexual harassment.

More proof that this is an act.

From your link. The parts you conveniently chose not to quote.

"LAST WEEK, MY experience, and that of some of my female co-workers, became the focus of a New York Times story on the sexual harassment and sexism that took place in the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign. I told my story to bring attention to the sexist environment that is unfortunately endemic to most workspaces, including political campaigns. However, I was disheartened to discover that the takeaway by many pundits was not that sexism and harassment is pervasive, but that Sanders was somehow uniquely culpable. I was also struck by some of the messages and tweets calling into question the character of the women who spoke out.

As was the case throughout the 2016 campaign season, my personal experiences as a woman of color were sublimated to serve an establishment media narrative that pretends the progressive movement is all white, all male, and runs counter to the interests of women and people of color.

But my story should not be taken to confirm the “Bernie bro” mythology. It should be taken to confirm the pervasiveness of sexism in professional life and distill the hard truths that all campaigns should learn from."

[Steel Inquisitor]

Show me.

Show me where you've called out other supporters of harassment without other people bringing it up or you mentioning Bernie so you can go after him and his supporters too.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4844464

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4840074

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4839913

"Go after Bernie and his supporters, too"? ??? Where are you going with that?

More proof that this is an act.

From your link. The parts you conveniently chose not to quote.

"LAST WEEK, MY experience, and that of some of my female co-workers, became the focus of a New York Times story on the sexual harassment and sexism that took place in the 2016 Bernie Sanders campaign. I told my story to bring attention to the sexist environment that is unfortunately endemic to most workspaces, including political campaigns. However, I was disheartened to discover that the takeaway by many pundits was not that sexism and harassment is pervasive, but that Sanders was somehow uniquely culpable. I was also struck by some of the messages and tweets calling into question the character of the women who spoke out.

As was the case throughout the 2016 campaign season, my personal experiences as a woman of color were sublimated to serve an establishment media narrative that pretends the progressive movement is all white, all male, and runs counter to the interests of women and people of color.

But my story should not be taken to confirm the “Bernie bro” mythology. It should be taken to confirm the pervasiveness of sexism in professional life and distill the hard truths that all campaigns should learn from."

You're not proving anything, except the part where she was quoted about being attacked by the Bernie Bros. What's your opinion on that quote or the harassment she had to endure on the campaign trail?

Edit: I really want to know why you think the women who wrote that letter and met with Sanders are liars. That's what the implications are with the route you're taking.

[Superbat]

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4844464

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4840074

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4839913

"Go after Bernie and his supporters, too"? ??? Where are you going with that?

None of those links show what I asked for.

Every single one of them is in response to someone else.

You're not proving anything, except the part where she was quoted about being attacked by the Bernie Bros. What's your opinion on that quote or the harassment she had to endure on the campaign trail?

It's horrible.

It's no secret that men are a serious problem in our culture. Harassing women and making excuses for women getting harassed.

Men don't prioritize the safety and interests of women.

Now, what are your thoughts on her disapproval of people using what she experienced to go after Sanders? You're doing the same thing she said was disheartened to see.

"AFTER THE NEW York Times story, I was hoping to see a more productive discussion about the insidiousness of sexual harassment and sexism in politics. In sharing my experiences, I was hoping to highlight this issue for all future campaigns and celebrate the power of women organizers who worked together and successfully got the attention of Sanders and his team. But that’s not what happened.

For one, the corporate media unfairly focused on Sanders — casting the harassment that happened within his campaign much differently than similar cases with other campaigns — implicating his personal ethics in a way that they’ve declined to do with other politicians."

This is what she had to say about the term Bernie bros.

"But my story should not be taken to confirm the “Bernie bro” mythology."

Not that you care about that part.

[Superbat]

Edit: I really want to know why you think the women who wrote that letter and met with Sanders are liars. That's what the implications are with the route you're taking.

I have not implied that at all. It is not a thought that ever entered my mind.

I believe them 100%.

[JackDaw]

You're not proving anything, except the part where she was quoted about being attacked by the Bernie Bros. What's your opinion on that quote or the harassment she had to endure on the campaign trail?

Edit: I really want to know why you think the women who wrote that letter and met with Sanders are liars. That's what the implications are with the route you're taking.

I thought the quote accepted that woman was truthful...and was accepting that conduct of (some) of the Bernie Bros was sexist, BUT she wanted to stress this was something she would expect on ALL campaigns. Effectively...Bernie’s supporters were no worse than other supporters in this area.

That’s a fairly low bar, of course.

And the problem for Bernie is that (however unfairly) a lot of people probably expect left and forward thinking party supporters to be less sexist than their right wing rivals...their belief system ought to be different.

[SquirrelMan]

Russia Backs Trump’s Re-election, and He Fears Democrats Will Exploit Its Support



LOL ... that is the only thing he cares about, is that the Democrats would use it against him.

Sometimes I worry that it does not matter who we nominate, because Putin is so good at this.

And then I worry that feeling it doesn't matter is already the result of Putin being so good at this.

[SquirrelMan]

Trump approval with each candidates supporters

Klobuchar: 22%
Buttigieg: 11%
Bloomberg: 10%
Biden: 10%
Warren: 9%
Sanders: 4%

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...kers-any-other

Weird I thought all the Bernie Bros were down for throwing the election for Trump or something. Why is it always the centrist supporters that are cool with Republicans winning like all the Dems who voted McCain in 2008?

Because this keeps showing up:

´ look at the crosstabs: https://t.co/VZztveOjO8?amp=1
This is basically polling a subsample of a subsample. It includes totals of 66 Warren supporters, and 165 Sanders. 33 Klobuchar supporters across the US. The margin of error on this is huge.

Plus it looks like the tweeted you copied those numbers from is wrong? Here are the actual numbers from the crosstabs:



That shows both Warren and Buttigieg supporters giving Trump lower approval ratings than Sanders supporters?

Maybe I am reading the chart wrong, can somebody else go to the link and clarify this?

[numberthirty]

Sometimes I worry that it does not matter who we nominate, because Putin is so good at this.

And then I worry that feeling it doesn't matter is already the result of Putin being so good at this.

Straight Talk -

It's already going to be no gravy job trying to beat a sitting President who has somehow managed to increase his share of Latino support while not running the economy into the ditch.

The most sound approach, for whoever the nominee will wind up being, seems like it will be to get out to the voters and try to address what they are looking for.

That there will most likely be, at the very least, one country trying to skew the way it plays out needs to be treated like the figurative "Side Mission".

[SquirrelMan]

Kieran said he is rooting for every candidate to beat Bernie. That includes Bloomberg.

... and Kieran ist British, I think. but do keep trying to convert them to your cause.

[SquirrelMan]

If someone cars about harassment they should be voting Warren, not the two people who failed women.

Thanks for bringing some sanity.

[Steel Inquisitor]

None of those links show what I asked for.

Every single one of them is in response to someone else.

Yes, it was. They were ignored afterward. Those posts weren't in a vacuum, the majority of which Bernie supporters posting have trouble accepting as the truth, never mind condemning it when it was posted.

It's horrible.

Then why did it take this long to get you to admit that? And you're only one person, there are others who are still silent on this.

It's no secret that men are a serious problem in our culture. Harassing women and making excuses for women getting harassed.

Men don't prioritize the safety and interests of women.

Does this include Sanders? When this is bought up again will you be siding with me or the Bros against this sort of behaviour?

Now, what are your thoughts on her disapproval of people using what she experienced to go after Sanders? You're doing the same thing she said was disheartened to see.

That I disagree with.

Here is some testimony from people who made death threats for Bernie in '16.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-chair-170919/

Do you deny they hurt people?

Do you think Roberta Lange is a liar?

"AFTER THE NEW York Times story, I was hoping to see a more productive discussion about the insidiousness of sexual harassment and sexism in politics. In sharing my experiences, I was hoping to highlight this issue for all future campaigns and celebrate the power of women organizers who worked together and successfully got the attention of Sanders and his team. But that’s not what happened.

For one, the corporate media unfairly focused on Sanders — casting the harassment that happened within his campaign much differently than similar cases with other campaigns — implicating his personal ethics in a way that they’ve declined to do with other politicians."

Which has merit, since harassment is something all campaigns struggle with. However, this ignores the context for why the Bros narrative escalated. Like the death threats and stalking. Are any Bernie supporters going to acknowledge or condemn those links I posted?

This is what she had to say about the term Bernie bros.

"But my story should not be taken to confirm the “Bernie bro” mythology."

Not that you care about that part.

I care, I just disagree. The stalking, death threats and sexist attacks show it to be something to be worried about in the links I've posted earlier and recently. Do you think the people who were victims in my links are liars?

[Superbat]

Maybe I am reading the chart wrong, can somebody else go to the link and clarify this?

You're reading it wrong.

You can go to the tweet linked to in the article for more details but you might have to dig through a lot of the replies.

... and Kieran ist British, I think. but do keep trying to convert them to your cause.

I said rooting for, not vote. I literally said he was doing what he said he was doing.

I'm not trying to convert anyone.