All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[PaulBullion]

Something we talked about before, now in the NYT:

The C.I.A. is hunting for the real numbers in China. Agency knows China is lying about their numbers, but believes even Beijing does not know true toll.

[Tendrin]

Something we talked about before, now in the NYT:

The C.I.A. is hunting for the real numbers in China. Agency knows China is lying about their numbers, but believes even Beijing does not know true toll.

I mean, I would never trust the CIA either, but it's not really far-fetched that the Chinese government would want to fudge the numbers of deaths.

[PwrdOn]

I think you're underestimating the racism that exists in other nations too. Being Muslim in France is no picnic, I assure you.

Yeah but the scale is simply different in America, because the structure of our society is set up in a way such that the material comfort of white people is dependent on the continued exploitation of the labor of non-whites. Every once in a while, a few minorities may leak into the upper class and we tout this as some great marker of progress, but if we were to ever attempt to actually achieve racial equality instead of just talking about it, America as we know it would probably collapse. France and other European countries are not as reliant on this as we are, at least not since decolonization, they of course still take advantage of cheap imported labor but their country wouldn't implode in a bundle of self-contradiction if they didn't have it.

Something we talked about before, now in the NYT:

The C.I.A. is hunting for the real numbers in China. Agency knows China is lying about their numbers, but believes even Beijing does not know true toll.

So far, to the frustration of both the White House and the intelligence community, the agencies have been unable to glean more accurate numbers through their collection efforts.

That's the only relevant point in the article, the rest is all just baseless speculation.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Remember that not so long ago Islamic terrorism has cost the life of quite a number of people here. And yet, racist incidents after that remained extremely rare.

Antisemitism though, now that's a problem we have a tough time dealing with sadly in France. It remains strong.

Not sure which world you live in but Arabians, Indians and really any brown person that looks traditionally Muslim has been seen lots of racism in the west. Islamic terrorism isn't an excuse for racism.

[aja_christopher]

I'm unaware that the Florida decisions were illegal.

On voter rights, this is an issue where there are legitimate arguments on both sides. Three-quarters of the population supports requiring Photo IDs to vote.

You know Republicans actively attempt to suppress black and brown voters, often through illegal means, and not just via voter ID.

That said, enjoy what your blatantly racist, homophobic, dishonest, and corrupt party is doing to our country.

You can pretend not to see it but don't think others don't.

------
"According to the Palm Beach Post (among other issues), though blacks accounted for 88% of those removed from the rolls, they made up only about 11% of Florida's voters.[7]

Voter demographics authority David Bositis, a former senior research associate at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, DC, reviewed The Nation's findings and concluded that the purge-and-block program was "a patently obvious technique to discriminate against black voters."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florid...ral_Voter_File

[Tendrin]

Yeah but the scale is simply different in America, because the structure of our society is set up in a way such that the material comfort of white people is dependent on the continued exploitation of the labor of non-whites.

I think that argument can be applied to every colonial power in the west.

Every once in a while, a few minorities may leak into the upper class and we tout this as some great marker of progress, but if we were to ever attempt to actually achieve racial equality instead of just talking about it, America as we know it would probably collapse. France and other European countries are not as reliant on this as we are, at least not since decolonization, they of course still take advantage of cheap imported labor but their country wouldn't implode in a bundle of self-contradiction if they didn't have it.

I'm not so sure of this.

[jetengine]

Yeah, that's not the experience of my French Muslim friends.

And let's not even get into how the supposdly less racist governments treat the Roma or the Sami or several other groups.

When you say Roma are you referring to travellers or the actual ethnic Roma ?

[Tendrin]

When you say Roma are you referring to travellers or the actual ethnic Roma ?

Romani peoples.

[shooshoomanjoe]

When you say Roma are you referring to travellers or the actual ethnic Roma ?

We Americans don't know there's a difference. Roma, to us, are gypsies.

[PwrdOn]

I think that argument can be applied to every colonial power in the west.

I'm not so sure of this.

That's kind of the point of social democratic ideology though, European countries realized the gravy train was coming to a stop but that with the vast pool of stolen wealth they had accumulated they could continue to compete economically and sustain a high standard of living if only they were willing to spread that wealth more equally, and thus avert a disastrous collapse like older empires had suffered. Granted, given the events of the last decade or so, even that has sort of run out of steam and it's really only a matter of time before Europe will be dependent on tourism and overpriced luxury brands to survive.

America though has yet to even reach the point where we have stopped outright exploiting our own people, yet we always want to pat ourselves on the back for all the racial progress we've made and talk about how the rest of the world is so much worse. At least from my personal observation, most people in the rest of the world will tend to lose their racist attitudes if they happen to make a good friend, but in America it's sort of become a meme at this point that people continue to act like racist pricks even to their longtime friends, while simultaneously touting those friends as proof of how woke they are.

[jetengine]

We Americans don't know there's a difference. Roma, to us, are gypsies.

Theres a significant difference in that one is an actual enthic minority with a history and culture and the other isnt. There is also the often ignored awkwardness when Americans bring up Gypsies as an example of European racism forgetting that the reason they havent had many issues in modern times is their land laws and amount of firearms mean you killed them all or drove them away.

[Tendrin]

Theres a significant difference in that one is an actual enthic minority with a history and culture and the other isnt. There is also the often ignored awkwardness when Americans bring up Gypsies as an example of European racism forgetting that the reason they havent had many issues in modern times is their land laws and amount of firearms mean you killed them all or drove them away.

I mean, I also brought up the Sami and French Muslims.

Racism against all three is pretty significant in Europe. Racism towards them is so entrenched and systematic that a lot of center-left groups can barely see it.

The 2016 Pew Research poll found that Italians, in particular, hold strong anti-Roma views, with 82% of Italians expressing negative opinions about Roma. In Greece 67%, in Hungary 64%, in France 61%, in Spain 49%, in Poland 47%, in the UK 45%, in Sweden 42%, in Germany 40%, and in the Netherlands[254] 37% had an unfavourable view of Roma.[255] The 2019 Pew Research poll found that 83% of Italians, 76% of Slovaks, 72% of Greeks, 68% of Bulgarians, 66% of Czechs, 61% of Lithuanians, 61% of Hungarians, 54% of Ukrainians, 52% of Russians, 51% of Poles, 44% of French, 40% of Spaniards, and 37% of Germans held unfavorable views of Roma.[256]

[jetengine]

I mean, I also brought up the Sami and French Muslims.

Racism against all three is pretty significant in Europe.

Those I dont know much about admittedly, I've merely encountered travellers several times and understand why their despised. Though in this case Travelers are more a moniker of their lifestyle and less associated with their ethnicity

[Tendrin]

Those I dont know much about admittedly, I've merely encountered travellers several times and understand why their despised. Though in this case Travelers are more a moniker of their lifestyle and less associated with their ethnicity

...ooooooof, dude.

[jetengine]

...ooooooof, dude.

I cant lie. I've encountered different groups of travelers 5-8 times and EACH TIME they have stolen from my place of work, left copious amounts of rubbish behind after being forced to move on due to illegally being on land, been disruptive and at one point caused the fairly peaceful area I work in to be locked down as they started a knife fight.

Whether its a cultural thing or a reaction to society itself treating them poorly due to their forbears actions if you act like that consistently people are going to start hating you.

Now of course this is just in MY experience so I may have just encountered 5-8 different groups of "bad" travelers but they need to acknowledge within their community that this kind of behaviour isn't allowable, because it only hurts the entire group.