All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[jetengine]

Bad summarization. Biden is not even close to the change I want. I don't fucking care about the Democratic Party that much and it's because of politicians like Biden who were historicaly garbage for a long time and they squandered away the potential that was set up for the party long ago. It's more, I'd be enabling bad behavior.

No, your enabling bad behaviour by having a tantrum and giving your vote to Trump. Your LITERALLY becoming a stereotype.

Frankly though your "I'm alright jack" line makes me question how much empathy as a progressive you have. Afterall, your actually supposed to give a shit irrespective if it hurts you or not you know?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

No, your enabling bad behaviour by having a tantrum and giving your vote to Trump. Your LITERALLY becoming a stereotype.

Frankly though your "I'm alright jack" line makes me question how much empathy as a progressive you have. Afterall, your actually supposed to give a shit irrespective if it hurts you or not you know?

Too bad. I voted for Clinton last time. People here were still assholes when they didn't get their way. Same people that bitched about Sanders voters. Too toxic for me.

Oh and btw Biden isn't going to help anybody, even in the off chance he wins. He's one of the bad D's.

[Tami]

First, a disclaimer. I don't like Pence, I don't trust Pence. But in watching Pence's briefings on the virus, compared to Trump, he seems far more Presidential.

If Trump thought putting Pence in charge of the overseeing the Virus response would end up looking bad for him, I think it may have backfired.

If Trump follows through with the idea of dropping Pence in favor of Nickie Halley or someone else, I think that might backfire on him.

[jetengine]

Too bad. I voted for Clinton last time. People here were still assholes when they didn't get their way. Same people that bitched about Sanders voters. Too toxic for me.

Oh and btw Biden isn't going to help anybody, even in the off chance he wins. He's one of the bad D's.

And you wonder why we treat you like children. I've more respect for Mets right now and he post some seriously spurious shit, but at least he BELIEVES in it.

[TheDarman]

Too bad. I voted for Clinton last time. People here were still assholes when they didn't get their way. Same people that bitched about Sanders voters. Too toxic for me.

Oh and btw Biden isn't going to help anybody, even in the off chance he wins. He's one of the bad D's.

Not really. Let’s re-summarize a few of the main policy positions both Sanders and Biden have been running on:

I don’t see how we arrive at this estimate, especially if you truly agree with Sanders’ policy positions.

Sanders and Biden both want to act on climate change, undo what Trump has done, and enact new plans to reduce carbon emissions. Biden probably won’t go through with a green new deal, though. So—let’s go with 60% agreement.

Sanders and Biden both want to expand access to affordable health care. Sanders believes we need Medicare For All, but admits it would be a process where people would have the option to go to Medicare or stay with a private plan, at least in the intermediate period. Biden, instead, wants a public option added to the exchanges that would also be covered by subsidies for those who can’t afford health care at all. So—let’s rate the similarity on this at 70%, just to be fair.

Sanders and Biden both want to end Trump’s draconian immigration policy and stop the mistreatment of migrants. Yes, Biden will be more willing to increase Visa limits and allow for more skilled migrants to come to the U.S. than Sanders, who believes increased migration IS a way for businesses to continue to put down the working class. So—we’ll say 80% similarity, with Biden taking the more extreme position this time.

Sanders and Biden both want to expand voting rights back to minorities and their communities. I don’t sense any real discrepancy in plans or what they would do to accomplish this. So, let’s just give this the first 100% commonality.

Now, I’m sure there are other policies with less overlap, but I got an aggregate of 77.5% commonality across those four issues. Now, campaigns have plenty of other issues, but I can’t imagine that there are enough issues with absolutely zero commonality that we end up with a figure as low as five percent.

Oh and I forgot not being an egocentric, narcissist maniac intent to burn bridges with our allies and make “agreements” with adversaries that neither side has any intention of keeping. So, commonality there is at...yes...100% too.

So...how do you arrive at this conclusion that Biden is so terrible?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Not really. Let’s re-summarize a few of the main policy positions both Sanders and Biden have been running on:

I don’t see how we arrive at this estimate, especially if you truly agree with Sanders’ policy positions.

Sanders and Biden both want to act on climate change, undo what Trump has done, and enact new plans to reduce carbon emissions. Biden probably won’t go through with a green new deal, though. So—let’s go with 60% agreement.

Sanders and Biden both want to expand access to affordable health care. Sanders believes we need Medicare For All, but admits it would be a process where people would have the option to go to Medicare or stay with a private plan, at least in the intermediate period. Biden, instead, wants a public option added to the exchanges that would also be covered by subsidies for those who can’t afford health care at all. So—let’s rate the similarity on this at 70%, just to be fair.

Sanders and Biden both want to end Trump’s draconian immigration policy and stop the mistreatment of migrants. Yes, Biden will be more willing to increase Visa limits and allow for more skilled migrants to come to the U.S. than Sanders, who believes increased migration IS a way for businesses to continue to put down the working class. So—we’ll say 80% similarity, with Biden taking the more extreme position this time.

Sanders and Biden both want to expand voting rights back to minorities and their communities. I don’t sense any real discrepancy in plans or what they would do to accomplish this. So, let’s just give this the first 100% commonality.

Now, I’m sure there are other policies with less overlap, but I got an aggregate of 77.5% commonality across those four issues. Now, campaigns have plenty of other issues, but I can’t imagine that there are enough issues with absolutely zero commonality that we end up with a figure as low as five percent.

Oh and I forgot not being an egocentric, narcissist maniac intent to burn bridges with our allies and make “agreements” with adversaries that neither side has any intention of keeping. So, commonality there is at...yes...100% too.

So...how do you arrive at this conclusion that Biden is so terrible?

Okay let's start with climate change. It doesn't matter on that issue because the Green New Deal is a last ditch effort to meet a bunch of timelines before the planet is irreversably harmed. So while you call it 60% it's really "Bernie's plan does what is neccessary, Biden's fails that".

You mischaracterized Bernie's M4A plan out the gate. He only allows for supplemental private insurance. If his plan keeps people on it for awhile it's in a transitional period until the infrastructure is in place. That's compleltely different from what Biden wants. No 70% is not fair when one is designed to get the private market out of health insurance and the other isn't. They have fundamentally different priorities. Biden's plan would not get everyone insured. Even he knows that.

Biden worked for an administration that deported immigrants like it was going out of style and set the framework for what Trump expanded on and abused. So let's make that clear. 80% is a gross mischaracerization.

What you said on voting rights is a standard Democrat issue that they won't get done because they will never have the votes for it.

So basically you cherry picked policies and then mischaractierized nearly all of them to make a number up out of thin air to act like you made some scientific standard to act like they were similar. They aren't 75% similar. They aren't even 50% similar. AOC got it right. In virtually every European country, her and Sanders wouldn't even be considered part of the same party.

So yeah.... if you make up a bunch of numbers then you might have a point, but it's just really magic wanding it

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

And you wonder why we treat you like children. I've more respect for Mets right now and he post some seriously spurious shit, but at least he BELIEVES in it.

I got the exact same treatment for about 3 years despite voting for Clinton before I even said anything about potentially not voting for Biden. So no you don't really have a leg to stand on here. Your treatment then is precisely why I see absolutely no value in aiding you now. Now it's just desperate people trying to get there way. When the trolls here (and we know who they are)

But if you talk about people behaving like children, look around at the people who blamed Sanders and his supporters in 2016 for the loss despite the majority coming out for Clinton and how they were treated because a bunch of children couldn't accept that they lost because they backed a shitty candidate. You have no idea how many people joined your side in good faith that you ran off over the next 3 years. I know exactly what it gets me. Biden loses and it'll be the Bernie Bros fault because godforbid they realize that backing the same type of candidate as Clinton, as Kerry, as Gore isn't a winning strategy

[Kirby101]

You have not shown how Biden is only 5% better than Trump.
To bad you don't see the danger in a second Trump term.
Hope other Sanders supporters are not so recalcitrant.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You have not shown how Biden is only 5% better than Trump.
To bad you don't see the danger in a second Trump term.
Hope other Sanders supporters are not so recalcitrant.

Fun fact, I didn't cast a vote for Sanders this last cycle. It's not a strictly Sanders thing. And you guys were the ones that put up magic numbers about how close Biden and Sanders were, so the onus is still on y'all to prove it.

Anyways I don't really care. It's more Biden's supporters than anything else that are the toxic problem. Can't be part of that group

[Theleviathan]

Fun fact, I didn't cast a vote for Sanders this last cycle. It's not a strictly Sanders thing. And you guys were the ones that put up magic numbers about how close Biden and Sanders were, so the onus is still on y'all to prove it.

Anyways I don't really care. It's more Biden's supporters than anything else that are the toxic problem. Can't be part of that group

Perhaps your frustration at a progressive loss could be better dealt with. These last two pages have rendered months of your arguments fraudulent. Were they disingenuous or is this empty bitterness?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Perhaps your frustration at a progressive loss could be better dealt with. These last two pages have rendered months of your arguments fraudulent. Were they disingenuous or is this empty bitterness?

When did I ever say I was going to vote for Biden? Sorry your lot burned that bridge when you still acted like children after Clinton's loss. I know what unity really means to all of you. It means you smear progressives when they are dangerous and shame people into voting for moderates under the guise of unity. Sorry we played this game before and I know how it ends.

[Dalak]

I've been lurking for a while as dialing in telesurvey work doesn't make typing on a computer when you get home an attractive prospect, but wasn't it only a few weeks ago that Bernie was up in several polls and his supporters here were disparaging those who let online assholes affect their votes?

NOTE: I voted for Warren on Super Tuesday as I said I was going to for months, and my Mom voted for Bernie. We aren't being snarky in the least to each other, let alone the level of animosity of their supporters on Twitter. And while I will probably wind up voting for Biden if he becomes the nominee (As I would almost anyone at this point), I stand by my criticisms of him in the past and will continue to make new ones when I feel it necessary. I don't plan to tear into the democratic nominee unless it seems warranted, but I do not like him and would have preferred many of those who've dropped out to have been our nominee over Uncy Joe.

[SquirrelMan]

Or maybe tell them to vote for Trump like Biden did.

Thank you for participating in the discussion. Your input is very valuable to us. We shall consider your suggestions at the appropriate time, Bill.

[zinderel]

So...how do you arrive at this conclusion that Biden is so terrible?

Biden isn’t Saint Bernardus Immaculatus. That makes him the worst ever. Worse than Hillary. Worse than Trump, even.

Were they disingenuous or is this empty bitterness?

Can’t they be both...?

[SquirrelMan]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/...m%2F1287640826

Joe Biden (Text Join to 30330)
@JoeBiden
·
43m
I don't care who you're supporting, attacks like this against a man who could be the first Jewish President are disgusting and beyond the pale. Hatred and bigotry have no place in America — and it's up to all of us to root out these evils wherever they're found.

Well, so much for unity.