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  1. #9796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    How Does Bernie Pay for His Major Plans?

    https://berniesanders.com/issues/how...s-major-plans/
    These plans fall short, however. Just a quick breakdown:

    Free college: initial costs are 1.6 trillion, it will take the better part of 10 years to pay for that. (Not to mention nothing in his plan to curb those costs or hold colleges accountable)
    Childcare: 2.5M of the 4.35M wealth tax allocated (wealth taxes have not proven to be nearly as trusthworthy as bill, but we'll pass on that for now)
    Green New Deal: 16 trillion....the majority of which won't be paid for until over a decade later
    M4A: 34 trillion - His stated revenue streams only add up to 20T

    That's a gap of roughly 30 trillion. So....he's not exactly got a plan to "pay for it". This is not, in any way, saying we shouldn't try for these policies (Except free college...that's so fucking stupid. Eliminate debt and enforce fair tuition? Sure. Free college? Beyond stupid) ... simply to point out that the criticisms that he does not have a plan to pay for his ideas is not inaccurate.

  2. #9797
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Canada, like all of Europe, gets romanticized by the left. But truthfully, every nation has a ton of shitty stuff behind the curtain. And that's even with it being mostly a bunch of lily white populations with limited cultural diversity. Hell, speaking English vs. French is enough to have secession talks. Imagine what the canucks would do with our levels of religious, racial, or cultural diversity. Europe is the same - most of those nations have nowhere near the diversity, or the lineage of colonial impression, of many other nations including the U.S.

    That's not to say diversity is bad, just that it presents a lot of challenges for a society to work through.
    European countries manage to maintain a broad system of safety nets and social programs because the people there feel a degree of solidarity with each other. The dark side of this, of course, is that white people largely are only capable of feeling this solidarity with other white people and that as immigration has changed the face of European societies a lot of cracks are beginning to form. However, the sensible reaction to this is not to somehow declare that diversity is an obstacle and that we shouldn't even try to implement any left wing policies until perfect racial harmony is achieved, but that we should be strive to better than Europeans, and given that they have been responsible for pretty much 99% of the world's problems throughout history, I don't see that as too high of a bar to clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    That's a gap of roughly 30 trillion. So....he's not exactly got a plan to "pay for it". This is not, in any way, saying we shouldn't try for these policies (Except free college...that's so fucking stupid. Eliminate debt and enforce fair tuition? Sure. Free college? Beyond stupid) ... simply to point out that the criticisms that he does not have a plan to pay for his ideas is not inaccurate.
    Free college doesn't mean everyone gets a full ride to Harvard, it just means that people should be able to go to their local community college or some equivalent, and I honestly don't see how that is unreasonable. The problem with the cost of higher education is that much of that money ends up funneled toward things that have little to do with educating students, but on the flipside those are pretty much the things that everybody enjoys most about college, so you can't very well just get rid of them. Community colleges get a bad rap, but that's largely just due to elitism, at the end of the day you're getting much better value for your money there than you would be at a state school or, god forbid, an expensive private school.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 02-24-2020 at 09:37 PM.

  3. #9798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    How Does Bernie Pay for His Major Plans?

    https://berniesanders.com/issues/how...s-major-plans/
    Taxing the rich, taxing the fossil fuel industry, lowering funding for the military, taxing corporations, taxing millionaires, corporate tax reform, taxing estate values - many of which are very large numbers. I love the ideas, but these are going to get railroaded severely in congress and powerful interest groups. People don't like hearing their taxes will be getting raised, either.

  4. #9799
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    These plans fall short, however. Just a quick breakdown:

    Free college: initial costs are 1.6 trillion, it will take the better part of 10 years to pay for that. (Not to mention nothing in his plan to curb those costs or hold colleges accountable)
    Childcare: 2.5M of the 4.35M wealth tax allocated (wealth taxes have not proven to be nearly as trusthworthy as bill, but we'll pass on that for now)
    Green New Deal: 16 trillion....the majority of which won't be paid for until over a decade later
    M4A: 34 trillion - His stated revenue streams only add up to 20T

    That's a gap of roughly 30 trillion. So....he's not exactly got a plan to "pay for it". This is not, in any way, saying we shouldn't try for these policies (Except free college...that's so fucking stupid. Eliminate debt and enforce fair tuition? Sure. Free college? Beyond stupid) ... simply to point out that the criticisms that he does not have a plan to pay for his ideas is not inaccurate.
    The thing is... free colleges would likely be community colleges and small universities that you already can get by with a FAFSA grant and some out of pocket costs. If you wanted to go to a larger state institution or a private academy, you would still have to pay up, thus creating a sort of value or merit based system where degrees would matter more based upon where you went. However, the opportunity to learn technical education or trade skills should be there for people since we will still need stuff like maintenance staff, hotel management, and utilities servicemen, and I don't think you can get any of that with a high school education as it is. I think we really need to emphasize what "free education" should be defined as, since it would be easy to assume that it would open the doors to Ivy League for anyone, when in reality, if you lived in Chicago, that just meant you could go to East-West or Chicago State for free.

    Shoot, I'm going to a community college, and I am eventually planning on getting an IT job by the end of the year as a result.
    Last edited by JDogindy; 02-24-2020 at 09:59 PM.

  5. #9800
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Taxing the rich, taxing the fossil fuel industry, lowering funding for the military, taxing corporations, taxing millionaires, corporate tax reform, taxing estate values - many of which are very large numbers. I love the ideas, but these are going to get railroaded severely in congress and powerful interest groups. People don't like hearing their taxes will be getting raised, either.


    Even if we went after the wealthiest Americans, cut off as many loopholes as possible, and enforced existing tax codes, people would still get angry.

    Heck, we've cut taxes as low as they've been in decades, and people are still unhappy. That's why we got the Tea Party years ago.

  6. #9801
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    The thing is... free colleges would likely be community colleges and small universities that you already can get by with a FAFSA grant and some out of pocket costs. If you wanted to go to a larger state institution or a private academy, you would still have to pay up, thus creating a sort of value or merit based system where degrees would matter more based upon where you went. However, the opportunity to learn technical education or trade skills should be there for people since we will still need stuff like maintenance staff, hotel management, and utilities servicemen, and I don't think you can get any of that with a high school education as it is. I think we really need to emphasize what "free education" should be defined as, since it would be easy to assume that it would open the doors to Ivy League for anyone, when in reality, if you lived in Chicago, that just meant you could go to East-West or Chicago State for free.

    Shoot, I'm going to a community college, and I am eventually planning on getting an IT job by the end of the year as a result.
    It says right in his plan that it's far more comprehensive than that. What you're saying is far more reasonable, but it isn't Sanders' plan.

    He has nothing in his plan to regulate costs or reduce them. It's for all public education. It's basically a blank check. Which is what got us here in the first place.

  7. #9802
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    European countries manage to maintain a broad system of safety nets and social programs because the people there feel a degree of solidarity with each other. The dark side of this, of course, is that white people largely are only capable of feeling this solidarity with other white people and that as immigration has changed the face of European societies a lot of cracks are beginning to form. However, the sensible reaction to this is not to somehow declare that diversity is an obstacle and that we shouldn't even try to implement any left wing policies until perfect racial harmony is achieved, but that we should be strive to better than Europeans, and given that they have been responsible for pretty much 99% of the world's problems throughout history, I don't see that as too high of a bar to clear.



    Free college doesn't mean everyone gets a full ride to Harvard, it just means that people should be able to go to their local community college or some equivalent, and I honestly don't see how that is unreasonable. The problem with the cost of higher education is that much of that money ends up funneled toward things that have little to do with educating students, but on the flipside those are pretty much the things that everybody enjoys most about college, so you can't very well just get rid of them. Community colleges get a bad rap, but that's largely just due to elitism, at the end of the day you're getting much better value for your money there than you would be at a state school or, god forbid, an expensive private school.
    I'm good for striving to be better than Europe, but what you say is cracks forming I think is an understatement. And those fissures are at a tiny fraction of our racial and cultural diversity. I'm merely suggesting that paralleling us with Europe is apples and oranges IMO. It's not to tell us not to try, but our road is going to be a bigger challenge. Those homogeneous countries are quite a bit different from us than is typically accounted for.

    Sanders' plan is all public colleges, not community colleges. I would be all for making 2 year, community, and trade schools free. No problem with that. All public schools? Now I have a major problem largely for exactly what you say here: colleges have bankrolled all sorts of non-educational endeavors through gouging kids with loan payments. There is nothing in Warren or Sanders' plans that account for that. They are basically exploitative corporations at this point. Just because they sell the idea that they are about education, doesn't mean they are.

    There needs to be major reforms before I'm on board with the College for All plan as Bernie has laid it out. I see nothing about reforms, only money. Money, without checks and balances, is exactly what got us here in the first place.

  8. #9803
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    South Carolina
    @NBCNews
    /
    @maristpoll


    Before Nevada debate:
    Biden 29%
    Sanders 19%
    Steyer 14%
    Buttigieg 9%
    Warren 6%
    Klobuchar 5%
    Gabbard 3%

    After Nevada debate:
    Biden 25%
    Sanders 25%
    Steyer 15%
    Warren 10%
    Buttigieg 9%
    Klobuchar 4%
    Gabbard 3%

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/s...37381639315456
    Bernie2020
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  9. #9804

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    On this date in 2015, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" ran a profile of Andy Tobin, a former member of the Arizona House of Representatives and failed Congressional candidate in the 2014 elections. Tobin, in his time as a legislator, had voted to legalize the use of gold and silver as legal tender, among a lot of other strange bills including a "religious freedom" bill to legalize discrimination against gays, and random, warrantless searches to be conducted of abortion clinics whenever law enforcement felt like it. Tobin is also decidedly anti-immigrant, having not only supported Arizona's controversial law, SB 1070, but also once telling the public that people sneaking across the U.S./Mexico border were bringing Ebola Virus with them (which isn't true, given it is an African virus). Tobin also sent out fundraising e-mails promising to hold President Obama accountable for "what happened in Benghazi”, so there's that, as well. Tobin currently does not hold elected office, and instead was appointed to a cushy job on the Arizona Corporation Commission by Republican Governor Doug Ducey.

    On this date in 2016, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” posted a profile of Rick Berg, a former one-term Congressman from North Dakota who failed to win election to the U.S. Senate against Heidi Heitkamp back in 2012, mostly because Berg portrayed himself as a "centrist Republican", which is kind of hard to buy considering that as a state legislator he voted to make abortion a felony offense, even including cases where the pregnancy is from rape or incest, without exception. Looking back even further, to 2005, they found Berg supported the privatization of Social Security by the Bush Administration, in an assembly vote. As election day approached in 2012, Rick Berg was starting to sweat about how closely he and Heidi Heitkamp were polling, not just because of his record, but because of his business ties to a shady real estate company, Goldmark Property Management, that was the target of dozens of tenant complaints and fire safety violations. It also didn't look so good that he had missed 38 votes in his one term in office in the House. Berg grew desperate enough that in his final debate against Heitkamp, he decided to try and make up ground by attacking the Affordable Care Act, brazenly lying about its effects on the national debt, and claiming it took money from Medicare (when it actually cuts costs that caused less spending on Medicare, which wasn't the same thing). Berg lost by a few thousand votes to Heitkamp, and has yet to reemerge as a candidate for any office.

    On this date in 2017, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" profiled Tom Price, the former U.S. House Representative from Georgia’s 6th House District for six full terms from 2005 through early 2017 who went on to become the not-long-tenured Cabinet Secretary for Health and Human Services in the Trump Administration. While Tom Price is, at least, a former orthopedic surgeon with a medical background, he also is a founding member of the GOP House’s Tea Party Caucus, has been accused of violating the STOCK Act, and committing insider trading, and has long been touted as a member of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a conservative group that argues that the government should do NOTHING in regards to healthcare, whatsoever, and to allow socialized medicine is “evil” or “immoral”. That’s not even the weirdest thing about the AAPS, as its journal has published articles in the time Tom Price served in Congress with such fine topics as a discussion about rescinding the citizenship of so-called “anchor babies,”, who it falsely claimed were responsible for increased leprosy rates, others that pushed the myth of a link between vaccines and autism, another that suggested a link between abortion and breast cancer, and one that questioned the relationship between HIV and AIDS. The AAPS also once requested the U.S. Supreme Court should to release post-mortem photos of Vince Foster, the Bill Clinton White House counsel whose suicide conspiracy theorists believe actually was an assassination. Oh, and the AAPS was a top source for all the rumors during the 2016 elections swirling about Hillary Clinton’s supposed “failing health”, as well. If you needed any other evidence that Tom Price is hanging out with a bunch of kooks, the AAPS website once published an article about how President Obama’s powerful oratory could actually be a form of hypnosis, and that he won the presidency by hypnotizing impressionable voters like young people and Jews. Tom Price is also a bit of a homophobe, even outside of his anti-LGBTQ voting record reacting to the Obergefell v. Hodges ruling and declared it a “sad day for marriage”. And as far as women’s rights go, well, Tom Price isn’t just anti-abortion, he’s against birth control. In fact, Price didn’t just co-sponsor the Right of Life Act that would have given Constitutional rights to zygotes, he argues that there’s no such thing as a woman without access to birth control in the country. Price’s voting record was, as you might expect, hyper-partisan, and his time as a member of the Cabinet came to a quick end when he was forced to resign after it was discovered he was abusing his travel budget at taxpayer expense to do things like fly to Nashville on the urgent business of having lunch with his son. Tom Price is now out of the political spotlight.

    On this date in 2018, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profiled Jon Stanard, a member of the Utah House of Representatives from 2012-2018, and whose downfall will not take us very long to explain. You see, Stanard is a “family values” Republican, who quite predictably was caught cheating on his wife (allegedly). But wait, there’s more. He cheated on her with a porn star, Brie Taylor. But wait, there’s still more. He cheated on his wife with a porn star who he was paying for sex, and therefore his name isn’t just Jon, he was a john with a prostitute he frequents. But wait, THERE’S STILL MORE to make it worse… Jon Stanard was billing the taxpayers for the hotel he was banging an ex-porn star turned prostitute behind his wife’s back. But of course, you could look through his voting record and laugh at the level of hypocrisy in Stanard’s votes to “defend marriage” and in other matters, like how he wanted to block legislation that would prohibit discrimination against an individual based on their sexual orientation. He was shamed into resigning and is likely out of office for good.

    On this date in 2019, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profiled the former candidate to be the U.S. House Representative from Florida’s 22nd Congressional District, Adam Hasner. Hasner was a member of the Florida House of Representatives from 2002 through 2010, hitting term limits as the Tea Party came to power. He served in that body along side future Senator Marco Rubio, and by 2007, was the Majority Leader serving in that body, and was frequently criticized for his partisan extremism by colleagues. At one point, video even emerged of Hasner boasting that he was “the most partisan Republican in Tallahassee”. The least offensive thing about Adam Hasner might be that he’s just a hypocrite, as he campaigned for Congress against politicians who “raise their pay” and “pad their pensions”, and meanwhile, he had a history of doing exactly that as a state legislator. But really, it’s the rolling with hate groups that bothers us more. During Hasner’s first two years out of office in 2011 and 2012, and around the time he started trying to build momentum for his Congressional run, he suddenly took a huge turn for the Islamophobic. And not limited to the ways you might expect. While some Republicans were content to foment fears of the Muslim Brotherhood infiltrating the Democratic Party like bigoted twits, Hasner went “next-level” in his fearmongering. During a speech before the Republican Liberty Caucus of East Central Florida where he said that "there has also been an infiltration of the conservative movement by stealth jihadists in this country." He also bizarrely imagined that President Obama had aligned himself against Occupy Wall Street and that the group also had in its ranks “ranting anti-Semites who want to destroy Israel." Before long, Hasner had opted to appear in public with hate group leaders like Pamela Geller, the leader of the anti-Muslim hate group ACT!, legendary Islamophobe Frank Gaffney, as well as Dutch white nationalist Geert Wilders. While raving about Sharia Law all the time was one thing, his opinions that Jews in Israel had “superior claims” to the land than Palestinian Arabs was a bit more extreme of an opinion than one would hope for. Maybe when he went so far as to boycott an imam’s prayers in the Florida State Legislature, it should have become pretty clear that he was an outright bigot. Adam Hasner ended up losing in 2012 to Lois Frankel, getting 45% of the vote. Since, he has still floated behind the scenes in Florida politics, and he was a delegate at the 2016 Republican National Convention. We’ll see if he ever attempts a full comeback to prominence, but we’re hoping not. In the meantime, we will set aside his profile at this time, and will set aside his profile at this time and profile a different wacky Republican today instead. (Current crazy/stupid scoreboard, is now 839-40, since this was established in July 2014.)
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  10. #9805
    Spectacular Member Zauriel's Avatar
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    In a few days South Carolina is going to feel the Bern again like back in 2016. Bernie lost SC in 2016 but this time maybe he'll win.

  11. #9806

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    Candice Keller

    Welcome to what is the 839th original profile here at “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day”, where we’ll be discussing Candice Keller, a member of the Ohio House of Representatives from District 53, who first won office in her extremely conservative district back in 2016. It has not taken her long to draw headlines for being a raging bigot with a twisted worldview where anyone that isn’t white and straight are the cause of all the ills of the world.

    That might sound a bit harsh, but it was only a few weeks into her freshman term in office that Keller submitted a bill that would place any lawmaker who tried to do anything to protect a sanctuary city in jail. She tried justify it by claiming that over 8,000 immigrants in Ohio had gone on a crime spree, but were being protected by sanctuary cities.

    No one in the state seemed to know where she was even getting her statistics.


    Now, if It wasn’t abundantly clear that maybe Ohio’s newest state legislator was a screaming racist, Keller went on to promote her bill by going on a radio show hosted by Sonny Thomas, a white power advocate and explain its intent. When she was justifiably called out by the media for hanging out with a professional hatemonger, she claimed she actually intended on being interviewed by a different radio host from Cincinnatti, Brian “Sonny” Thomas.

    Uh huh.

    That isn’t the only controversy Keller got herself into. Back in March of 2018, she attacked the Parkland survivors, dismissing their activism by saying they just are “eating Doritos and playing video games. In August of this year, she responded to a mass shooting in Dayton, not with “thoughts and prayers” or to break from her party to call for reasonable gun control… instead, she posted a rant on Facebook where she blamed thousands of deaths a year in mass shootings on President Obama, video games, drag queens, and children without fathers:


    We’ll also note that already in her career, Keller has compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis, and expressed her belief that the U.S. will soon fight a second Civil War… over abortion.

    And as discouraging as we might find it that someone could be elected to office with such an ugly agenda, we’ve got some even more frightening news… Candice Keller isn’t just running for re-election to the Ohio House of Representatives in 2020… she’s seeking to move up into the upper chamber by running for Ohio State Senate in District 4. She still has to survive the GOP Primary, of course, and beat two other candidates in the GOP Primary when it comes up in a few weeks. We’re hoping that she loses that contest, and then her career fades to… well… white.
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  12. #9807
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zauriel View Post
    In a few days South Carolina is going to feel the Bern again like back in 2016. Bernie lost SC in 2016 but this time maybe he'll win.
    He has a better chance anyone besides Biden but the best I think he'll do is a close 2nd place.

    Biden's strength in SC, Clybrun's endorsement and the hits Bernie is going to take at the debate guarantee a Biden win in South Carolina.
    Bernie2020
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  13. #9808
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    There needs to be major reforms before I'm on board with the College for All plan as Bernie has laid it out. I see nothing about reforms, only money. Money, without checks and balances, is exactly what got us here in the first place.
    I think an equivalent problem (a lack of detail on how to pay for potentially popular reforms and no concrete detailed proposals on how to actually achieve them) sank Labour in the last UK elections....I don’t accept the popular UK view that it was just a one issue election (on Brexit).

  14. #9809
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    World Should Prepare For Potential Coronavirus Pandemic: WHO

    The World Health Organization’s director-general said the focus needs to be on containing COVID-19. Couldn't agree more. Meanwhile, there's THIS nonsense....

    **********

    Rush Limbaugh Claims The ‘Common Cold’ Coronavirus Is An Effort To ‘Get Trump’

    The conservative radio host declared communists and the media have “weaponized” the “common cold.” I can only hope that gasbag comes down with the virus and see how fast he changes his tune.

    **********

    Chris Matthews Apologizes For Comparing Bernie Sanders Win To Nazis Taking France

    The MSNBC host said he was “sorry for comparing anything from that tragic era” in his comments on the Nevada caucuses’ results. At best, that idiot should've been suspended for his horribly asinine comments.

    **********

    Joe Biden Sharpens Attacks On Bernie Sanders Ahead Of South Carolina Primary

    Polls show the 2020 race for the Democratic presidential nomination is heating up in the Palmetto State. With Super Tuesday right around the corner, Biden needs a win or his campaign could be sunk.

    **********

    Watergate Prosecutor Hits Donald Trump With A Damning Comparison To Richard Nixon

    Jill Wine-Banks told MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell why Trump “is a much more existential threat to democracy” than Nixon. Is the problem Trump, or the complicit Republican Party which shamelessly enabled him from jump street?
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 02-25-2020 at 02:35 AM.
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  15. #9810

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Now the media (the daily beast) is doing the harassment.
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