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  1. #2611
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    I mean Biden is running is as another Obama.

    Obama got one thing passed, it's currently getting dismantled, meanwhile Democrats lost ground in Congress and got stonewalled for pretty much the entire Presidency and then an incredibly anti Obama candidate gave the Republicans the Presidency.

    So we already saw what you just laid out happen with a canidate that is ideologically similar to Obama with less charisma and less vision.

    So I don't really view that as a great counterpoint when we just saw that exact scenario happen in administration Biden was part of.
    Passing the ACA is miles and miles ahead of any accomplishment I suspect that Bernie can pass. I'm not sure any current candidate could touch any piece of legislation at that level of complexity and significance for that matter. But on the ACA - you may not think it went far enough. You may hate the idea altogether. However, passing it required a ton of political capital and effort on the part of Obama. Yes, Biden is not Obama and may not have the ability to pass any close to that either. But, whatever else you think of what he has passed in his past, his record in political office has a much more robust slate of accomplishments. He has other flaws, but accomplishing things he sets out to do is not among those flaws. Bernie absolutely has that flaw.

    I am not making a pro-Biden argument, much as you seem to keep steering it that way. Hell, I just stated my stance on him has weakened significantly as his gaffes appear to show more and more age/self-control issues. But if you can't make a pro-Bernie argument in reality, without constantly turning to "but what about Joe!" then you're basically admitting Bernie's faults, you just don't want to say them out loud.

    And please remember, this discussion started with the idea that all candidates have flaws we have to accept to some degree or another. So pointing out a major flaw a candidate has shouldn't be all that controversial. Your issue with it should be about how you feel about it, not denying it exists or trying to steer attention away. Just say you don't care. That's fine. But trying to explain away Bernie's lack of executed plans is just refusing that have a conversation in reality.

  2. #2612
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    It is merely pointing out a reality. Bernie has a long tenure in Congress with a short track record of accomplishments. You stated that "Execution" was a problem for Biden, I merely pointed out that Bernie has never executed any of his plans.

    He's running for President, not Overlord. If he wants to "execute" his plan, he will have to arm wrestle for votes. There is simply not much evidence that he can. (hell, that he's even all that interested in doing so)

    And, again, this is not a pro-anyone argument. Simply a highlight of a flaw/weakness, one which you invited by setting up something that was a weakness for another candidate. When your hand was in the cookie jar about "executing" you shifted to planning and now you're complaining about my factual statement on his record. So, no, it's not a compelling argument against my point. It's a weak attempt to doge it.
    Politely, the "Point" doesn't need a counter argument because it is a pretty lousy excuse for a point.

    It applies to just about every President ever elected, but you seem to want to apply it to one potential President.

    That's just a lousy "Point". No way around that.

    As for Biden's "Weakness...", the guy is phoning it in. It's not the worst thing a potential President can do, but there is no argument for it not being the case. That approach is going to be way more of a potential roadblock than the resistance that any President will have to deal with.

    Also, HRC and George W.'s old man had plenty of what you are talking about.

    Where did having that in their back pocket get either of them? That is actual reality.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 12-13-2019 at 11:12 PM.

  3. #2613
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Politely, the "Point" doesn't need a counter argument because it is a pretty lousy excuse for a point.

    It applies to just about every President ever elected, but you seem to want to apply it to one potential President.

    That's just a lousy "Point". No way around that.

    As for Biden's "Weakness...", the guy is phoning it in. It's not the worst thing a potential President can do, but there is no argument for it not being the case. That approach is going to be way more of a potential roadblock than the resistance that any President will have to deal with.

    Also, HRC and George W.'s old man had plenty of what you are talking about.

    Where did having that in their back pocket get either of them?
    My point has nothing to do with Presidents. It has to do with a Senator who has been in Congress for a long, long time with barely any notable contributions. Hell, he didn't even steer the country's political leanings until well into that career.

    I think it helps to recap because you're very scatter-gun right now. There was a conversation about accepting candidate flaws you jumped into. You stated Biden was going to stink at executing his plans and then trumpeted Bernie. To me, I can't imagine a more ridiculous comparison to draw from a pro-Bernie perspective than "who is going to execute as President" than that. And I pointed out the track record of those two candidates in their long political careers as evidence. I'm not stating opinions about the quality of what they have passed, but simply be sheer volume it's a laughable point of comparison. Bernie has simply not managed to get his platform executed into legislation much at all despite ample time to do so. You can say that wasn't his point or arm wrestling or whatever else...it nevertheless doesn't change the end result.

    Just say you like Bernie's plans better. That's an opinion you are entitled to and could probably defend. What you stated instead was either poorly worded or a contention with no basis in reality. (Or with minimal evidence to support it)
    Last edited by Theleviathan; 12-13-2019 at 11:17 PM.

  4. #2614
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    It's a weird kind of coup that ends with Mike Pence being president.

  5. #2615
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    My point has nothing to do with Presidents. It has to do with a Senator who has been in Congress for a long, long time with barely any notable contributions. Hell, he didn't even steer the country's political leanings until well into that career.

    I think it helps to recap because you're very scatter-gun right now. There was a conversation about accepting candidate flaws you jumped into. You stated Biden was going to stink at executing his plans and then trumpeted Bernie. To me, I can't imagine a more ridiculous comparison to draw from a pro-Bernie perspective than "who is going to execute as President" than that. And I pointed out the track record of those two candidates in their long political careers as evidence. I'm not stating opinions about the quality of what they have passed, but simply be sheer volume it's a laughable point of comparison. Bernie has simply not managed to get his platform executed into legislation much at all despite ample time to do so. You can say that wasn't his point or arm wrestling or whatever else...it nevertheless doesn't change the end result.

    Just say you like Bernie's plans better. That's an opinion you are entitled to and could probably defend. What you stated instead was either poorly worded or a contention with no basis in reality. (Or with minimal evidence to support it)
    Let's put this into reasonably simple terms...

    If someone had looked at Mike Tyson's boxing record leading up to his fight with Buster Douglas(roughly how you seem to be judging things), they would have picked Tyson as a guy who could easily accomplish beating Douglas.

    The problem with that approach is that it would tell you nothing about the guy who turned up on the night of that fight. It would only tell you about his record.

    Biden, right now, is essentially Mike Tyson walking into the ring on that night. I don't care what folks want to believe about his record up until then. The reality of what is going on right now says a whole lot more than one could glean from said record.

  6. #2616
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Let's put it this way...

    Here is Biden from very, very recently...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...lection-084359

    Biden warns that Boris Johnson's victory shows dangers of parties leaning too far left

  7. #2617
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    If you read through that and are thinking to yourself, "Let's Compare That Person's Political Accomplishments As A Means Of Judging If He Is Up To This...", you need to seriously take a second look.

  8. #2618
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    As for the whole "What Has Sanders Done?..." bit, this person will break the whole thing down for you...


  9. #2619
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Remember the Ohio abortion bill which tried to force doctors to complete an impossible medical task of reimplanting an ectopic pregnancy in the uterus or be charged with murder? Well, the 'mind' behind it is apoparently none other than WBE's CSGOPOTD alum John Becker.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...pregnancy-flap

    The bill prohibits insurers from covering abortion services, but provides an exception for the a procedure “intended to reimplant” an ectopic pregnancy in a woman's uterus.
    Becker told the newspaper he never researched whether re-implanting an ectopic pregnancy into a woman's uterus was a viable medical procedure before including it in the bill. Sheets declined comment.
    "I heard about it over the years," Becker said. “I never questioned it or gave it a lot of thought.”
    Another bill that's since been introduced in Ohio's Republican-led House subjects doctors to potential murder charges who don't try everything to save the life of a mother and fetus, “including attempting to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy into the woman's uterus.”
    The emails show Sheets encouraged Becker to push back after a Maryland geneticist questioned the scientific journal articles he was using to defend the provision. One was from 1980 and one was from 1917.

  10. #2620
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    The fucker uses a cart. Swinging the club ain't exercise.
    I suspect it is for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Took the words right out of my mouth.

    There is no predicting who will and will not be left standing. Who called Scalia passing before he did?

    Never mind that I would take an elderly Jimmy Carter over a lot of folks out there today.
    Don't forget Notorious RBG who might outlive us all.

    ====================

    Is Trump Immune From Investigation? The Supreme Court Will Soon Decide.

    The conservative movement has used Trump’s scandals to advance a radical theory of power. Republicans should want the Surpremes to rule AGAINST Trump, because if a Democrat reclaims the White House, he (or she) would have that very same immunity, something I'm sure the GOP wouldn't like.

    **********

    Former Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin Pardons Donors’ Relative On His Way Out

    The Republican made 428 pardons and commutations since he lost his reelection campaign, including a convicted killer whose family donated to Bevin’s campaign. What a predictably scummy thing for a Republican to do.

    **********

    How Bernie Sanders’s Endorsement Of An Ally Blew Up In His Face

    The Vermont senator withdrew his formal support for Cenk Uygur’s congressional bid, but as one California Democrat noted, “the bad publicity is already out there.” A considerable misstep for Sanders.

    **********

    Harvard Law Professor Warns How Mitch McConnell’s Impeachment Strategy Could Backfire

    Laurence Tribe described the Senate majority leader’s planned defense of Donald Trump as “disgusting.” That goes without saying.

    **********

    White House Indicates Greta Thunberg Is Fair Game Because She’s An ‘Activist’

    The press secretary explains a different standard for Barron Trump when pressed about the first lady’s position on the president’s insults toward the celebrated girl. Anything to excuse the shitty behavior of a butthurt Trump who lost out on Time's 'Person of the Year' to a teenaged environmentalist.
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  11. #2621
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Doubtful. People said the same thing about Trump who’s clearly overweight (despite the bullshit about being only 239 pounds), doesn’t exercise, save for when he plays golf, dines on fast food, and god only knows how much sleep he gets at night when he’s not busy rage tweeting, and that’s all on top of the day to day stress that comes from being president, and yet, he hasn’t keeled over. Perhaps hate and spite keeps Trump going, who knows, but if the job hasn’t done him in, Biden and Sanders should have little trouble surviving the experience.
    Bernie's already had a heart attack, another wouldn't be surprising frankly.
    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Let's put it this way...

    Here is Biden from very, very recently...

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...lection-084359
    Tbf Corbyns loss is frankly illegible from an american perspective so they frame it as "He too left" when its actually as complex as "Why Hillary lost".

    Simplicity and politics never mix.
    Last edited by jetengine; 12-14-2019 at 03:17 AM.

  12. #2622
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Let's put this into reasonably simple terms...

    If someone had looked at Mike Tyson's boxing record leading up to his fight with Buster Douglas(roughly how you seem to be judging things), they would have picked Tyson as a guy who could easily accomplish beating Douglas.

    The problem with that approach is that it would tell you nothing about the guy who turned up on the night of that fight. It would only tell you about his record.

    Biden, right now, is essentially Mike Tyson walking into the ring on that night. I don't care what folks want to believe about his record up until then. The reality of what is going on right now says a whole lot more than one could glean from said record.
    Well, if this is your analogy of choice than you are agreeing with me. There is no legislative comparison that has any basis for giving Bernie the nod as an "executing" master.
    Even your video had scant examples and that was all about his time as mayor. I'm making no judgement on his ideological or electoral accomplishments, only judgements on how successful he has been executing plans into realities. (Because you chose that path)

    You just want to take a swing and hope. Fine, just say that.

  13. #2623

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Remember the Ohio abortion bill which tried to force doctors to complete an impossible medical task of reimplanting an ectopic pregnancy in the uterus or be charged with murder? Well, the 'mind' behind it is apoparently none other than WBE's CSGOPOTD alum John Becker.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...pregnancy-flap
    I don't profile these folks just because, as some would have you believe, they're a Republican.

    These people have to stand out as the most fanatical kooks of a party of extremists and white nationalists.

    And yeah, Becker's anti-choice dogma definitely qualifies.
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  14. #2624
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Former Breitbart Editor: Stephen Miller is a white supremacist. I know, I was one too.

    (CNN)She was already a racist when she took a publishing job in Washington, DC. But when she became a reporter for Breitbart News, Katie McHugh says she was taken to new depths of hate with the help of Stephen Miller.

    Emails show the two were in frequent contact between 2015 and 2016 while he was working for then Sen. Jeff Sessions and later on the Trump presidential campaign.

    McHugh says on Miller's way to the White House, where he is now a senior adviser deeply involved in shaping immigration policy in consonance with his hardline views, he was constantly sending her far-right material, encouraging her to use their arguments in her articles.

    "He was shaping news coverage of a far-right website that was rapidly growing ... and was controlling the narrative behind Donald Trump's candidacy and the tenor of the electorate, especially the Republican electorate," McHugh says. Breitbart supported Trump and as he rose while embracing the site's ideology, so did Breitbart's popularity with readers.
    Calling someone a white supremacist is a very strong and personal attack, but McHugh does not hesitate to denounce Miller from what she knows of him and how she saw in him a kindred spirit when she was on a racist path.

    "I would absolutely call him a white supremacist," she says. His driving ideology is "white supremacy and anti-immigration especially," she adds.

    McHugh herself once followed the same hate as Miller. When she first moved to Washington, she dated a white nationalist and they and their friends would hang out in a home they dubbed "the house of hate."

    She tweeted virulently racist and Islamophobic statements but says she was still having fun and a social life.

    When she went to work for Breitbart, she says she became more isolated -- working long hours remotely by herself and that helped to make her susceptible to what she calls her "radicalization" by Miller and others.

    "My world got more sealed off and I got much more intense. I got prideful, and I got angrier and angrier," she says. "Unless you stop, you know, objects in motion, stay in motion. It just gets worse."
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  15. #2625
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    100 Jewish graves were desecrated in France. A search for the websites that fueled the hate led to the US

    Westhoffen, France (CNN)Guillaume Debré didn't know how to break it to his young daughters and has yet to show them a photograph of the swastika. "They are markings on sacred stones, that spell out hate and in this country, we understand what that means and what it can lead to," he says.

    "To my daughters it's just a peaceful area where their family comes from. It's difficult for them to understand that their family, that their grave has become a target of hate."

    But in early December, that is exactly what happened in the small village of Westhoffen in the Bas-Rhin region of Alsace, in eastern France. No one knows exactly when swastikas and anti-Semitic graffiti were spray-painted onto 107 tombstones in the village's ancient Jewish cemetery -- the 42nd anti-Semitic attack in the region in just 18 months.

    French authorities are taking the matter extremely seriously. France's Interior Minister Christophe Castaner visited Westhoffen the day after the swastikas were discovered and French President Emmanuel Macron paid his respects at the cemetery of Quatzenheim after it was desecrated earlier this year. And yet, no one has been caught.
    "Normally," says Colonel Francois Despres, "it is about following the money, but this is another type of criminal and people who are used to adopting a low profile both in society and when they commit acts. So that's why it's a question of patience and we are patient and that patience will pay."

    For now, 42 attacks -- on graveyards, town halls, schools and cultural centers -- remain unpunished and the threat of more remains. While the hunt for the culprits continued on the ground, CNN began to investigate who might be influencing them from afar. What we found was a trail that led us from Alsace, through the Bahamas and Panama, and on to the United States.
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